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JoJo: Dio Revisions
- Thread starter Nehz_XZX
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I agree with @Chariot about DIO's base strength in Part 3. There's no implication that his physical strength has diminished, only that his Regenerationn has become less potent. Also, Dio's first key should scale off of Tarkus' boulder feat, which is at least Class K. Since there's no implication that DIO's physical strength is weaker in Part 3, his second key should also be at least Class K.
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Actually re-reading the exact quotes there is a slight implication, he's likely talking about his regen still (with the weaker being used to mean his regen is weaker, actually that's exactly what he means but eh) but none the less the chance is there but at the same time, it only applies to one side of his body. His head and right side have little to no implications of being weaker, only his left. (And even then it doesnt seem a whole lot weaker, it's negligible).
Anyway.
Dio. Split into two keys, one for Pre-High and one for Post-High. Whether Dio and Shadow Dio are the same or one is weaker wouldn't change the tiering, both are above Tarkus so it's a bit reduntant to list the exact same thing, explanation and all. Hence why only two keys.
At least Class K, likely higher (Superior to Tarkus) | At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than before, casually lifted a road roller and moved with it at high speeds). At least Class K, likely higher with The World (Should be comparable to Star Platinum)
Santana. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Wham. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Esidisi. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Kars. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando and his fellow Pillar Men)
Star Platinum
At least Class K, likely higher (Initially much stronger than DIO, could briefly stop the High Priestess from crushing Jotaro with one arm)
Alternatively we could just list everyone above Tarkus as At least Class K, likely Class M.
As to hit Class M you only have to be twice as strong as the feat and everyone in question is much stronger than Tarkus and Tarkus himself did it with on finger. i dont know what stance we have on scaling up to higher tiers in regards to lifting strength though, hence why I think At least Class K, likely higher gets the same point across without actually changing the tier. Although if it's something we do then the above could work.
That good? Everyone fine with that? Any issues with wording or a better idea on how to word it?
Anyway.
Dio. Split into two keys, one for Pre-High and one for Post-High. Whether Dio and Shadow Dio are the same or one is weaker wouldn't change the tiering, both are above Tarkus so it's a bit reduntant to list the exact same thing, explanation and all. Hence why only two keys.
At least Class K, likely higher (Superior to Tarkus) | At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than before, casually lifted a road roller and moved with it at high speeds). At least Class K, likely higher with The World (Should be comparable to Star Platinum)
Santana. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Wham. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Esidisi. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Kars. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando and his fellow Pillar Men)
Star Platinum
At least Class K, likely higher (Initially much stronger than DIO, could briefly stop the High Priestess from crushing Jotaro with one arm)
Alternatively we could just list everyone above Tarkus as At least Class K, likely Class M.
As to hit Class M you only have to be twice as strong as the feat and everyone in question is much stronger than Tarkus and Tarkus himself did it with on finger. i dont know what stance we have on scaling up to higher tiers in regards to lifting strength though, hence why I think At least Class K, likely higher gets the same point across without actually changing the tier. Although if it's something we do then the above could work.
That good? Everyone fine with that? Any issues with wording or a better idea on how to word it?
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I still disagree for the same reasons as before. DIO's regen being weaker can very well be an example of his DIO's own state not being overall perfect, hence he's not invincible yet and he's not completely adjusted to his body. It doesn't have to mean that literally only his regenerative powers are weaker and he's not invincible yet due to it. It takes less speculation to say that he's not as strong in his current state because that can be said to be the case.
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You can disagree, that's fine but saying it takes less speculation is blatantly false. It takes far more speculation to say its more than just his Regenerationn because the only thing that's actually shown and discussed is his Regenerationn, you have to speculate to assume Dio's talking about everything, not just his regen. It doesnt mention his speed, his power, his durability, the only thing ever talked upon is that his Regenerationn is weaker on his left side and thus he's not as invincible as he could be. Not only that, only his left side is said to have any issues and his right side seems to be completely fine. So even if we assume he's weaker, it'd only be on one side of his body the neck down, and if that's the case, him being physically weaker is negligible considering both his right and left sides dont seem to be that different statistically.
So no, sorry to say Efi but you're making much more assumptions in this situation than anyone else. I can see where you're coming from and I even agree to an extent, it could mean he's weaker overall, but as said, it only applies to half his body while the other half is seemingly fine and in the context of where it's said, Dio is very explicitly talking about his healing factor, even showing to Hol that one side heals slower than the right when saying his left side is weaker.
Basically long story short, Dio's likely just talking about his healing as that's what he's talking about in that scene and that's what's explicitly shown in said scene. Assuming that his left side is weaker overall, even if you do so, as said that weakness only applies to his left side, his right side and head is at the very least as strong as he was back in Part 1 (given the fact he specifies only one side of him is ****** up, implies the other half isnt ****** up and is as it should be) and even assuming then, the dfference between both sides, if it does exist, is negligible to the point it doesnt seem to actually effect much. Definitely not enough to the point where it'd effect his stats in any meaningful way, this is more of a thing you throw in the Weakness section saying His left side heals slower and is potentially weaker to an unknown but seemingly negligible extent.
So no, sorry to say Efi but you're making much more assumptions in this situation than anyone else. I can see where you're coming from and I even agree to an extent, it could mean he's weaker overall, but as said, it only applies to half his body while the other half is seemingly fine and in the context of where it's said, Dio is very explicitly talking about his healing factor, even showing to Hol that one side heals slower than the right when saying his left side is weaker.
Basically long story short, Dio's likely just talking about his healing as that's what he's talking about in that scene and that's what's explicitly shown in said scene. Assuming that his left side is weaker overall, even if you do so, as said that weakness only applies to his left side, his right side and head is at the very least as strong as he was back in Part 1 (given the fact he specifies only one side of him is ****** up, implies the other half isnt ****** up and is as it should be) and even assuming then, the dfference between both sides, if it does exist, is negligible to the point it doesnt seem to actually effect much. Definitely not enough to the point where it'd effect his stats in any meaningful way, this is more of a thing you throw in the Weakness section saying His left side heals slower and is potentially weaker to an unknown but seemingly negligible extent.
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Speed, power, durability and regen don't just exist in a vacuum, his regen got weaker because something was wrong in his body, what implications that leaves? Rhetorical question.
Let's go over this by parts, I'll like to heard what the rest thinks on that and then I'll go over what I think about his right side being fine.
Let's go over this by parts, I'll like to heard what the rest thinks on that and then I'll go over what I think about his right side being fine.
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>Speed.
You do realize he's faster right? Part 3 Dio is faster than Part 1 Dio even Pre-High so not exactly helping your case.
Something is wrong with one side of his body, which makes his healing slower that's what's wrong. He says as much himself. He says his left side is weaker, in reference to his healing being weaker. Then specifies what he meant by it being weaker, in that his left side heals slower, he even shows an example by burning his fingers, one on the right and one on the left. The left side takes longer to heal then the right finger. Your rhetorical question falls apart when it contradicts itself Efi. You're kinda assuming way more than is actually implied, let alone shown. (Not to mention both sides are outright shown to have equal speed when he's deflecting the Emerald Splash so that's one thing that's clearly not true and exists in a vacuum, and if that exists in a vacuum who's to say the others don't as well?).
Also yes, actually regen does exist in a vacuum, at least stand alone from the raw stats, I mean were you not just previously, in this very thread, suggesting Pillar Men being superior to vamps and zombies doesnt mean their regen is too? Why the sudden double standards? Dio's body can heal slower on one side, yes it's because his body has failed to conjoin fully yet but healing slower doesnt mean he's several times weaker and slower (which is actually contradicted and has feats that suggest otherwise, so any decrease in strength on the left, if it even exists, is negligible as said).
If you're honestly going to suggest his right side is ****** too, no offense but you're wrong and assuming way to much. The fact he makes an effort to specify his left side is a bit ****** while comparing it to his right side that is shown to not be ****** but is even used as an example of what normal looks like, yeah no, you're blatantly wrong and to suggest his right side is weaker is making a case of something that's never shown but actively contradicted. In which case even if his left side is weaker physically, it's not by a noticeable amount anyway so as said, slap a mention of it in the weakness section but it's not effecting any stats in any meaningful way, assuming it is weaker, which is debate anyway given the context of the statement and what weaker is shown to mean. And the I'm not invincible yet quote is literally talking about how he's more vulnerable on his left side due to slower healing.
But the worst part is, why does this even matter? This aint even relevant to the main topic, which is lifting strength. As far as I'm concerned Dio is likely just as strong as he was back in Part 1 (Especially with all the women he's ate, which is known to boost power, at least in the manga) and if he is weaker, it's only on one side of his body and only neck down and only by a small amount to the point it doesnt effect much of anything other than his regen takes like a few seconds longer but that's my opinion, an opinion that doesn't actually effect the topic at hand and is better saved for elsewhere so I fail to understand why you want to continue this?
You do realize he's faster right? Part 3 Dio is faster than Part 1 Dio even Pre-High so not exactly helping your case.
Something is wrong with one side of his body, which makes his healing slower that's what's wrong. He says as much himself. He says his left side is weaker, in reference to his healing being weaker. Then specifies what he meant by it being weaker, in that his left side heals slower, he even shows an example by burning his fingers, one on the right and one on the left. The left side takes longer to heal then the right finger. Your rhetorical question falls apart when it contradicts itself Efi. You're kinda assuming way more than is actually implied, let alone shown. (Not to mention both sides are outright shown to have equal speed when he's deflecting the Emerald Splash so that's one thing that's clearly not true and exists in a vacuum, and if that exists in a vacuum who's to say the others don't as well?).
Also yes, actually regen does exist in a vacuum, at least stand alone from the raw stats, I mean were you not just previously, in this very thread, suggesting Pillar Men being superior to vamps and zombies doesnt mean their regen is too? Why the sudden double standards? Dio's body can heal slower on one side, yes it's because his body has failed to conjoin fully yet but healing slower doesnt mean he's several times weaker and slower (which is actually contradicted and has feats that suggest otherwise, so any decrease in strength on the left, if it even exists, is negligible as said).
If you're honestly going to suggest his right side is ****** too, no offense but you're wrong and assuming way to much. The fact he makes an effort to specify his left side is a bit ****** while comparing it to his right side that is shown to not be ****** but is even used as an example of what normal looks like, yeah no, you're blatantly wrong and to suggest his right side is weaker is making a case of something that's never shown but actively contradicted. In which case even if his left side is weaker physically, it's not by a noticeable amount anyway so as said, slap a mention of it in the weakness section but it's not effecting any stats in any meaningful way, assuming it is weaker, which is debate anyway given the context of the statement and what weaker is shown to mean. And the I'm not invincible yet quote is literally talking about how he's more vulnerable on his left side due to slower healing.
But the worst part is, why does this even matter? This aint even relevant to the main topic, which is lifting strength. As far as I'm concerned Dio is likely just as strong as he was back in Part 1 (Especially with all the women he's ate, which is known to boost power, at least in the manga) and if he is weaker, it's only on one side of his body and only neck down and only by a small amount to the point it doesnt effect much of anything other than his regen takes like a few seconds longer but that's my opinion, an opinion that doesn't actually effect the topic at hand and is better saved for elsewhere so I fail to understand why you want to continue this?
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I still agree with Chariot. DIO being physically weaker Pre-High is still an assumption, since it is very much implied by DIO that only his left side is weaker in terms of Regenerationn, going out of his way to specify that his Regenerationn has become less potent on his left side, implying that his right side is what's 'normal.' Even if he might be physically weaker on his left side, it's by a negligble amount. There's still no absolute implication that he's physically weaker. And while this is a thread about DIO's (in his first two keys) lifting strength, it was a good idea to bring up the topic of his physical strength in Part 3, since we might need to make a thread about that.
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>Bump.
My dude, I've been waiting to hear your opinions on the ratings. As OP your opinion matters here.
My dude, I've been waiting to hear your opinions on the ratings. As OP your opinion matters here.
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What no? That doesnt even effect the ratings ultimately. I listed off and proposed lifting strength classes and wording above.
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Well that's good, I'd still like a bit more of a general consensus first though. Actual stats aint the same as just adding missing blatant abilities like Hierophant Green not having elasticity.
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Dio should also have resistance to Ice Manipulation since he literally freezes himself to attack in Part 1.
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Opinion on lifting strength wordings?
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Yeah, Dio should probably scale from Tarkus.
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No I mean.
Dio. Split into two keys, one for Pre-High and one for Post-High. Whether Dio and Shadow Dio are the same or one is weaker wouldn't change the tiering, both are above Tarkus so it's a bit reduntant to list the exact same thing, explanation and all. Hence why only two keys.
At least Class K, likely higher (Superior to Tarkus) | At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than before, casually lifted a road roller and moved with it at high speeds). At least Class K, likely higher with The World (Should be comparable to Star Platinum)
Santana. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Wham. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Esidisi. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Kars. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando and his fellow Pillar Men)
Star Platinum
At least Class K, likely higher (Initially much stronger than DIO, could briefly stop the High Priestess from crushing Jotaro with one arm)
Alternatively we could just list everyone above Tarkus as At least Class K, likely Class M.
Dio. Split into two keys, one for Pre-High and one for Post-High. Whether Dio and Shadow Dio are the same or one is weaker wouldn't change the tiering, both are above Tarkus so it's a bit reduntant to list the exact same thing, explanation and all. Hence why only two keys.
At least Class K, likely higher (Superior to Tarkus) | At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than before, casually lifted a road roller and moved with it at high speeds). At least Class K, likely higher with The World (Should be comparable to Star Platinum)
Santana. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Wham. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Esidisi. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando)
Kars. Straight forward.
At least Class K, likely higher (Stronger than Dio Brando and his fellow Pillar Men)
Star Platinum
At least Class K, likely higher (Initially much stronger than DIO, could briefly stop the High Priestess from crushing Jotaro with one arm)
Alternatively we could just list everyone above Tarkus as At least Class K, likely Class M.
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Dio and DIO scale to Tarkus' at least Class K lifting feat. We've already discussed that DIO never states or even implies that he is physically weaker, so the first lifting strength key should be for both his Part 1 and Part 3 selves. The second lifting strength key should be for High DIO, who is at least Class K since he is far stronger than before and, by scaling, should be stronger than Santana, and his Stand, The World, should probably be just barely stronger than before at Class K lifting strength, but not strong enough to close the slight AP gap between him and Star Platinum.
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Also, due to Tarkus only using a finger to lift the boulder, he should be listed as "At least Class K, likely Class M," since the full extent of his lifting strength with his hand is likely Class M. Beings superior to him, such as DIO and the Pillar Men, should scale to that.
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I slight disagree, I don't feel safe increasing lifting strength tiers through scaling. I'm fine with likely or possibly Class M, but not flat out for any of em. For the sole reason of, well look at DBZ, they're stuck at Class M yet through scaling and multipliers those ******* should be benching stars systems through scaling alone yet everyone is stuck at Class M. I don't wanna do any double standards,so possibly or likely Class M ok, but not flat out as I don't feel safe going into new tiers via scaling when it comes to lifting.
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Waiting for Walpurgisnacht Rising and Metroid 6...
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I'm pretty neutral on the lifting strength debate.
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You got any idea on what works best for those above Tarkus? (Like High Dio and Kars).
At least Class K? At least Class K, likely higher? At least Class K, possibly higher? Possibly Class M?
The only issue imo is the wording, they all effectively mean the eaxct same thing it's just, which should be used?
At least Class K? At least Class K, likely higher? At least Class K, possibly higher? Possibly Class M?
The only issue imo is the wording, they all effectively mean the eaxct same thing it's just, which should be used?
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Tbh the issue is literally wording it, everyone so far knows the general range at which they are at, and it's been accepted. It's just a matter of wording it. But there's like 4 different ways to get the pointb across so...
It isn't controversial but an admin saying which sounds best would be nice before any changes past Tarkus gets made.
It isn't controversial but an admin saying which sounds best would be nice before any changes past Tarkus gets made.
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There isn't any arguments from what I can tell, pretty sure wehave a general consensus.
But to summarize the thread. Dio's lifting strength only has one key, a feat he did at his best so we needed a new feat for the other keys.
Tarkus, a much weaker character had a feat of lifting a big boulder up with one finger with zero effort.
The feat got Class K+.
Now given Tarkus did the feat with literally one finger with zero effort and it's in the plus range, an At least Class K checks out for him.
The issue comes in with the characters stronger than him such as Dio (who created Tarkus and is equal with someone who ragdolled him) and the Pillar Mem, characters who are above even Dio, especially Kars.
We all know at this point that given their blatant superiority over Tarkus, they're all at the absolute minimum At least Class K, if not quite a bit more it's just which wording do we use out of these?
At least Class K.
At least Class K, likely higher.
At least Class K, possibly higher.
Possibly Class M.
Likely Class M.
Personally I think At least Class K, likely higher works best but they all effectively mean the same thing.
But to summarize the thread. Dio's lifting strength only has one key, a feat he did at his best so we needed a new feat for the other keys.
Tarkus, a much weaker character had a feat of lifting a big boulder up with one finger with zero effort.
The feat got Class K+.
Now given Tarkus did the feat with literally one finger with zero effort and it's in the plus range, an At least Class K checks out for him.
The issue comes in with the characters stronger than him such as Dio (who created Tarkus and is equal with someone who ragdolled him) and the Pillar Mem, characters who are above even Dio, especially Kars.
We all know at this point that given their blatant superiority over Tarkus, they're all at the absolute minimum At least Class K, if not quite a bit more it's just which wording do we use out of these?
At least Class K.
At least Class K, likely higher.
At least Class K, possibly higher.
Possibly Class M.
Likely Class M.
Personally I think At least Class K, likely higher works best but they all effectively mean the same thing.
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