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Joe Yabuki vs Ippo Makonouchi, The Reckoning

Since YoJimbo1989's match was removed, let's give this rematch a proper lookover once again.

These two are some of the most famous boxers in manga history and both have the heart and skill to take on incredible odds. Now these two will slug it out to determine who the true King of Fists is. Who will win, Ippo, the Wind God, or Joe, the Grim Reaper?


-Both are 9-B, Speed Equalized

-The match is an infinite round boxing match with win by KO

-The combatants know nothing of each other prior to the match

Ippo Makonouchi

Joe Yabuki
The main arguments on the removal thread were the AP difference and skill, (270000 J vs 15000 J) i do not know where that comes from, but i'm fairly sure Joe's AP is much higher than that, as Joe fought toe to toe with Rikiishi and others above him, who can punch hard enough to knock out cows that are bigger than the largest cow breed Chianina. Joe himself can punch hard enough to send Danpei flying and break a door off its hinges, there are also two instances of Joe punching through sandbags, the first one being the most impressive, because he did it to a sandbag that was bigger than himself before he knew anything about boxing or trained to improve himself. (Chapter 5 page 84) In the second instance Joe is tired yet he stil breaks the sandbag, Danpei then remarks "And he does it again. That's the 3rd time today" (Chapter 87 page 20)

I also have some things to say regarding skill, while it's true that Joe and Carlos Rivera ended the fight in a draw, it happened because the two agreed to slug it out instead of fighting on with more tactics in mind. Still Carlos is ranked 5th in the world. Joe's fights with Yongbi Kim and Mendoza are less reliable evidence for arguing against Joe's skill because he was extremely handicapped in both fights, either because of the extreme weight loss and dehydration or severe punch drunkennes. In the fight with Mendoza however Joe still proves his skill in the 12th round, the round in which Jose knows of Joe's blind right eye and wasn't terrified of Joe yet. There's also the fact that Jose himself makes an interesting remark, he regards Joe as a "splendid boxer" and he wondedered "where the Joe Yabuki of then has gone off to".

Jose did not know of Joe's punch drunk syndrome which is what led to him making that statement, this strongly suggests that he regards Joe as a worthy opponent and someone not to underestimate, because of this although Jose is still superior to Joe skill wise it's not by an astronomical amount . By comparison Ippo has yet to even earn a real fight with his universe's world champion Ricardo Martinez. (Unless you count the sparring match he had with him a fight, in which Martinez just defeated Ippo with mere jabs) Either way you look at it Joe is capabale of fighting amongst the best in the world but Ippo isn't. Joe has fought an entire gym of angered boxers and based on what we see he did really well, he also comes up with good strategies to win against characters who were superior to him skill wise like Aoyama and Wolf, even against someone as unpredicable as Harimau who can defy gravity and repeatedly punch while rotating mid air Blanka style.

Although Ippo can certainly take hits he never fought 15 full rounds, and cerainly did not do so in conditions as severe as Joe's. Meaning Joe has a clear edge in endurance, the longer the match lasts the worse it'll get for Ippo, also, as much as i love the ending of Ashita no Joe and hate ruining it, Joe technically did not die, because a deceased person cannot support it's own body sitting on a chair.
1. Ippo's AP comes from him breaking a table accidentally with Takamura while arm wrestling. The low-end for doing that is 273 kJ (link here). Meanwhile, Joe has no calc for his rating, so I assumed it was baseline. If there are any calcs for Joe, I'd consider them, but I can't find them. Ippo's speed was also a big factor, but I removed that part.

2. If the AP gap is to be believed, then Ippo should have comparable endurance to Joe, if not greater, because Ippo is getting hit by blows 18x stronger than Joe has ever taken. He's also much better at dodging punches since Joe doesn't do it often in his fights.
Some calculations are indeed needed, as things are now, an 18x gap is clearly too much to overcome for Joe, but should their AP's be close enough we can easily say Joe has better endurance.
If their AP is close, I'd somewhat agree. Joe did last for a while against Jose, but he was also severely punch drunk at the time and was not doing well at all. Otherwise, his fights are similar in length to Ippo's, usually three rounds at shortest. On top of that, Ippo shows more technical fighting than Joe and has prevailed against someone who was exploiting the weaknesses of the human body and a fighter that forced him to go through cyanosis (oxygen depravation) for most of the match. I'll wait to put in my final thoughts concerning Joe until some calculations are made
Now it does. Interesting calc. I'd personally pixel scale Harimu because he is very scrunched up when he's spinning. It may be much less than half his height, or it may be more. Either way, good effort