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JJK Gojo and Sukuna revisions

Downscale or Scale doesn't really matter, look at somone like Aki from Chainsawman or Zoro from One Piece. Characters taking substantially more damage than the likes of Sukuna but who are allowed scaling to these attacks.

I think the fact that he gets damaged even when the output is notably weakened while he's using an enhancer means physically scaling to Small City level is a no
Same goes for Gojo though. Both of them are comparable throughout their entire fight.
 
Downscale or Scale doesn't really matter, look at somone like Aki from Chainsawman or Zoro from One Piece. Characters taking substantially more damage than the likes of Sukuna but who are allowed scaling to these attacks.
The problem here is that it the scaling would be circular

Gojo and Sukuna are comparable. Red outputs more than twice the amount of Gojo's normal output. Sukuna can survive Red with heavy injuries

Sukuna would be at most Low 7-B for surviving Red, but Gojo is comparable to him and Red is more than twice as powerful as his own output. And so on
 
Downscale or Scale doesn't really matter, look at somone like Aki from Chainsawman or Zoro from One Piece. Characters taking substantially more damage than the likes of Sukuna but who are allowed scaling to these attacks.
Aki's suit was durable enough to prevent him from being fatally injured by an attack that one-shot Chainsaw Man Denji by cleanly slicing through him and Denji has High 8-C+ dura for surviving a High 8-C+ attack. Aki's actual physicals being 9-A comes from boxing Denji and his 9-A dura isn't gonna let him get off with a cut while Denji with his High 8-C+ dura was bisected.

Like this is a case where the next highest tier scales far too low so downscaling (but putting them within the same tier) is necessary which it isn't for this case because Red being x2 Sukuna's durability is perfectly fine as is, don't have to fix what isn't broken.
 
so is Gojo’s section acceptable? What about the ratings? Gojo is easier because I have 99% of everything done. If we reach a consensus about him then we can focus on Sukuna.
 
Aki's suit was durable enough to prevent him from being fatally injured by an attack that one-shot Chainsaw Man Denji by cleanly slicing through him and Denji has High 8-C+ dura for surviving a High 8-C+ attack. Aki's actual physicals being 9-A comes from boxing Denji and his 9-A dura isn't gonna let him get off with a cut while Denji with his High 8-C+ dura was bisected.

Like this is a case where the next highest tier scales far too low so downscaling (but putting them within the same tier) is necessary which it isn't for this case because Red being x2 Sukuna's durability is perfectly fine as is, don't have to fix what isn't broken.
And the Zoro point I mentioned?
so is Gojo’s section acceptable? What about the ratings? Gojo is easier because I have 99% of everything done. If we reach a consensus about him then we can focus on Sukuna.
Gojo looks fine. I haven't really commented on his stuff cause it makes sense. The most I would argue is that in hidden inventory while he mostly doesn't really on his physicals, he is at least shown willing and able to physically attack others as he does the clone man when he fails to use Red and the Q member he beat off screen who looks like Gojo physically beat him, and looking at his stats as an adult and since he relies on Six Eyes for a lot of his output and things like that, we could argue that his physicals just downscale from him Blue in that state, just so we don't have to deal with him having nothing for those stats but its whatever.
The problem here is that it the scaling would be circular

Gojo and Sukuna are comparable. Red outputs more than twice the amount of Gojo's normal output. Sukuna can survive Red with heavy injuries

Sukuna would be at most Low 7-B for surviving Red, but Gojo is comparable to him and Red is more than twice as powerful as his own output. And so on
It's not circular though. Because Gojo is High 7-C without Blue. He's higher into High 7-C with it. And with Red his Low 7-B. The only time Gojo is hitting Sukuna without Blue, Sukuna eats the hit with no real issue. With Blue, Sukuna isn't really taking a lot of damage throughout his beatdown. It's only with Red that damage starts to actually get significant against Sukuna.

Red for sure can cause harm to Sukuna, but he's still taking these attacks to a scalelable degree. So setting him at an at most tier of Low 7-B helps illustrate that ceiling for his power better than just having him at High 7-C. Especially since we'd be including him surviving Red in his durability section anyhow.
 
Gojo doesn't really have any physical feats, and the only relevant thing is what @Sir_Marvulous wrote for his durability, which then would scale Gojo to 8-A as well. Need more discussion about this.
Hmm. First off. I don't think any physical feats is needed to scale him above.
Normally speaking in JJK in regards to normal CE reinforcement dudes. If you've got higher CE output, that translates to higher speed and attack. And if gojo blitzes Toji, then he's pretty much above.
We see Pre RCT gojo whilst Hyper fatigued, being easily relative to Toji in speed.

This statement here also implies some relativeness in stats.

Additionally, Gojo's equal, HI arc Geto before Gojo's awakening, seems to have made Toji even amp himself up by revealing his card, which boosted his stats up. This may imply that he didn't think his current capabilities were enough to take down Geto and thus he needed to strengthen himself by doing a BV.
So for anything hidden inventory arc gojo related. Just either scale him to being relative to toji (pre rct) and scales above Toji after awakening.



Hmm.. The chants specifically only worked up to 175%.
Each set of chant is for blue, then red and purple. With each amp giving a 25% (You just gotta subtract the one given by Utahime who had her CT working at 120% effectiveness). He was also still weakened with a existing brain damage when creating that purple. Though Idk if that should be worth mentioning tho. It might still make it clear he did this whilst weakened but eh
Additionally. The wheel was completely unscratched. Not even the sure hit dismantle and cleave did anything to it. So idk how you'd treat destroying the wheel as AP impressive. It's kinda a unnatural wheel so the reasons might not even be some SP related stuff.



Aside from that? Everything else checks out fine for Gojo bro. 👍
 
Toji isn't even a sorcerer and he has zero CE, revealing the fact that he's under a Heavenly Restriction does literally nothing to aid him. Furthermore, he absolutely stomped the hell out of Geto, one-shotting his most durable Cursed Spirit and walking away from the fight with only a tiny cut to show for it.

When it comes to Gojo, even after Gojo's Awakening Toji withstood a direct hit to the chest from his Red without any of his bones being broken, so a much weaker Gojo being comparable in striking strength makes little sense.
 
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Toji isn't even a sorcerer and he has zero CE, revealing the fact that he's under a Heavenly Restriction does literally nothing to aid him.
Revealing Ones Hand isn't the same kind of Binding as a contract forged with Jujutsu iirc

one-shotting his most durable Cursed Spirit
He did that with Split Soul Katana which dura negs
 
Revealing Ones Hand isn't the same kind of Binding as a contract forged with Jujutsu iirc
The amp it provides seems to be similar in nature to something like Nanami's Overtime just with a different activation condition, so it probably just does nothing for somebody with zero CE to begin with. I don't recall a statement of it being fundamentally different than any other Binding Vow made with oneself.
He did that with Split Soul Katana which dura negs
The dura neg part is damaging the opponent's soul, but he also sliced through its physical hide quite easily as well.
 
In that case then yeah, it's not necessarily an AP feat for Toji here. There's still the problem of Gojo not having concrete AP scaling to Toji without his CT though (although I guess his Blue punches can just downscale to roughly half of Red).
 
Toji isn't even a sorcerer and he has zero CE, revealing the fact that he's under a Heavenly Restriction does literally nothing to aid him.
It does. We're told by Geto it amps him lol.
Heavenly restriction is a BV too. Geto says he's trying to further boost his HR.

AD_4nXfskUhLJ_e931dMLW3L_r6nEwXDs1kUNP-zpRWsmFOdbmPcIUpuCuWNrhk4TY72f_Zsbs0Tok8IbYG_3IhppU8lpNducBF1vSWvKBHVvcAWWnDB5ftt_RgrPxYtCh3CT8iFq3PMxjydreO0D7g=s320

Text (and TL) by Lightning:
[“It’s Heavenly Restriction, isn’t it? I already know that disclosing information will increase your abilities like us sorcerers. That’s not what I wanted to hear.”



The phrase 情報の開示 (joho no kaiji) is the same phrase used when Aoi Todo discloses Boogie Woogie to Hanami during the Goodwill event to increase his CE levels. Suguru implies that people with Heavenly Restriction can do the same.]


Furthermore, he absolutely stomped the hell out of Geto, one-shotting his most durable Cursed Spirit and walking away from the fight with only a tiny cut to show for it.
Yes, after amping himself. What are you talking about?
Yes, whilst using a Dura neg blade. That isn't anything AP noteworthy. This isn't even a W stats feat.
The absolutely stomped in question is getting him caught off guard after that stun Geto received from his CT not working, with Toji also being amped from that BV.

When it comes to Gojo, even after Gojo's Awakening Toji withstood a direct hit to the chest from his Red without any of his bones being broken, so a much weaker Gojo being comparable in striking strength makes little sense.
So why do you think Toji is afraid to fight Gojo, has to make him ultra fatigued, distract him with tons of bugs and exploit him worrying about Amanai?
You don't seem to understand that he's afraid/wary of Gojo. Not just because of his six eyes but also because he's strong.

He didn't even withstand it. The context is quite literally him blocking it with his inverted spear. Which he said that he can do that. (that he can block red with his spear) Hence why the Anime also shows him blocking it.
It's also why you see nothing having happened to his chest, and how he seems to be damaged from something else indirectly (the bleeding he has isn't that of someone that has taken a direct hit in the context of that fired red)
b6cf85afe202afa34df422f8b65cbeadb0706dab.png


Another thing is that you're using a gojo who is super casual and high on enlightenment, not even actually taking Toji seriously, notwithstanding the fact that this was his first ever use of red against Toji too.
 
My take on this thing is that Gojo shouldn't have any scaling to Toji. Not in AP, Dura or SS.
 
Sorry I meant anything other than Limitless. The OP has him scaling to Toji with Red and Purple.

There's no blue punches in this key.
 
Apparently he actually blocked it with the Inverted Spear though, so my reasoning here isn't exactly airtight.
 
He only blocked in the anime
It's heavily implied he blocked it with his spear given he talks about blocking it with the right timing. Which we see him turn around to Gojo who blitzed behind him and was preparing to fire a red for the first time upside down.
There's also no wound on any part of his body bar the one that comes from being launched away so far. Which is... his head.



The cursed spirit around him isn't hurt either. Or damaged.
No visible burn mark or wound that comes from being hit by red. The only wound is from his head that isn't the usual wound caused by a direct hit by something, but rather was sent away with quite the force that caused indirect injury by collision.

When you're hit by red, it causes some marks, reminiscent to burn marks to appear if you're directly hit by it. The cursed spirit shouldn't be any different either. So the only explanation is that he blocked it with his Inverted Spear. Which is also why the anime also shows him blocking it. So you can use the anime showing this time frame that the manga didn't show but only implied heavily.
 
It's heavily implied he blocked it with his spear given he talks about blocking it with the right timing. Which we see him turn around to Gojo who blitzed behind him and was preparing to fire a red for the first time upside down.
There's also no wound on any part of his body bar the one that comes from being launched away so far. Which is... his head.



The cursed spirit around him isn't hurt either. Or damaged.
No visible burn mark or wound that comes from being hit by red. The only wound is from his head that isn't the usual wound caused by a direct hit by something, but rather was sent away with quite the force that caused indirect injury by collision.

When you're hit by red, it causes some marks, reminiscent to burn marks to appear if you're directly hit by it. The cursed spirit shouldn't be any different either. So the only explanation is that he blocked it with his Inverted Spear. Which is also why the anime also shows him blocking it. So you can use the anime showing this time frame that the manga didn't show but only implied heavily.

I'm gonna have to agree with Guns here
 
Just scale him to Gojo's physicals, as he could block a blow from Gojo at 16 fingers and should be stronger than that at 20F.
There is also this. Prior to Domain battles Sukuna and Gojo exchanged few blows. Sukuna was hanging around with Gojo without any trouble.
There shouldn't be any big difference in physicals.
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We don't see any damage on Sukuna's hand or he got blow away despite both punching from opposite sides. Sukuna should scale to Gojo's SS without Blue.
 
Just scale him to Gojo's physicals, as he could block a blow from Gojo at 16 fingers and should be stronger than that at 20F.
It isn't shown as a clash but rather Gojo stopping as he sees Sukuna infront of him, we don't really get any indication of a clash or anything.
Sukuna should scale to Gojo's SS without Blue.
Isn't applying blue only for speed? In a sense to make a normal punch feel like a serious strike, so it wouldn't really make a major difference
 
It isn't shown as a clash but rather Gojo stopping as he sees Sukuna infront of him, we don't really get any indication of a clash or anything.

Isn't applying blue only for speed? In a sense to make a normal punch feel like a serious strike, so it wouldn't really make a major difference
Honestly idk if it can be considered Gojo “stopping” after seeing Sukuna considering both end up in the air and it seems like Sukuna or Gojo deflected an attack from the other but it’s kind of vague

Also as for blue, iirc it was described as enhancing the force behind Gojo’s punch or something on top of the speed thing but I could be misremembering
 
It isn't shown as a clash but rather Gojo stopping as he sees Sukuna infront of him, we don't really get any indication of a clash or anything.
Before DE there are multiple exchanges between both no one Overpowered others with just physical sts. Gojo only got advantage during DE or when Sukuna wasn't using DA.
Both were pretty much equal without CT's
Isn't applying blue only for speed? In a sense to make a normal punch feel like a serious strike, so it wouldn't really make a major difference
Blue enhances Gojos SS
 
Honestly idk if it can be considered Gojo “stopping” after seeing Sukuna considering both end up in the air and it seems like Sukuna or Gojo deflected an attack from the other but it’s kind of vague
It was definitely a clash

But given Gojo was so utterly casual, it can't be used for scaling (also it would be incredibly circular)
Also as for blue, iirc it was described as enhancing the force behind Gojo’s punch or something on top of the speed thing but I could be misremembering
"His fist is enhanced with Cursed Energy, and on the moment of impact, Blue repeatedly absorbs the surrounding space."
"It isn't just stronger. It feels like you've been clocked by a counterattack after preparing for a regular blow. It's the absolute worst."

This reads to me like Gojo focuses Cursed Energy at his fist (stronger) and enhances the punch with Blue for maximum contact (feels like a counterattack)
 
It was definitely a clash

But given Gojo was so utterly casual, it can't be used for scaling (also it would be incredibly circular)
It isn't circular because Gojo Scales to High 7-C through his own calc, literally the feat he performs before Sukuna blocks his attack on Kenjaku. And since the feat in question is a casual from Gojo, scaling Sukuna above that casual value when he's stronger is fair.

The truth of the matter is that Gojo and Sukuna scale relative to one another. That's why they're able to have a fight in the first place. We have an entire fight of the two harming each other with their physicals and CT.

This isn't that complex.
 
Honestly idk if it can be considered Gojo “stopping” after seeing Sukuna considering both end up in the air and it seems like Sukuna or Gojo deflected an attack from the other but it’s kind of vague
I don't see it as an attack deflection, honestly. Remember, Gojo was heading straight for Kenjaku to destroy him with one strike, using Blue in an attempt to pull him back and slow his movements down. Then, as we see Blue in action with things being pulled into it, you can also kind of see Kenjaku resisting it with his gravity manipulation. He then looks up to see Gojo and Sukuna. Gojo has his hand out as if he is halting his movement, and Sukuna is blocking in case of a strike. I don't really see anything indicating that it was a clash.
Also as for blue, iirc it was described as enhancing the force behind Gojo’s punch or something on top of the speed thing but I could be misremembering
Blue enhances Gojos SS
Yea both of you are right.
 
I don't see it as an attack deflection, honestly. Remember, Gojo was heading straight for Kenjaku to destroy him with one strike, using Blue in an attempt to pull him back and slow his movements down. Then, as we see Blue in action with things being pulled into it, you can also kind of see Kenjaku resisting it with his gravity manipulation. He then looks up to see Gojo and Sukuna. Gojo has his hand out as if he is halting his movement, and Sukuna is blocking in case of a strike. I don't really see anything indicating that it was a clash.


Yea both of you are right.
Honestly the reason I saw it as an attack deflection was mostly cause of their pose and me somewhat misremembering it. I remembered it more as Sukuna having his hand as a first and Gojo redirecting it but looking at the scan again yeah it kind of just looks like they're just blocking each other
 
Before DE there are multiple exchanges between both no one Overpowered others with just physical sts. Gojo only got advantage during DE or when Sukuna wasn't using DA.
Both were pretty much equal without CT's
Is this really the case? In the very first instance where they go full h2h combat, we see Sukuna trying to land a kick which is evaded by Gojo. Then, Sukuna blocks an attack from Gojo and tries to land another, but Gojo is already on the floor and uses Red to repel him. Gojo then kicks Sukuna, preventing him from gaining any footing.

During a domain battle, where Gojo lost his domain due to it breaking from the outside, Gojo was able to endure multiple 2.07 megaton slashes from Malevolent Shrine while maneuvering through RCT and Simple Domain. He destroyed his brain and recovered it with RCT to restore his burnt-out Cursed Technique, mainly using his superior speed. This allowed him enough time to escape the domain.

Once they entered their second DE, they were once more equal, able to block each other's attacks effectively multiple times. Gojo, being the faster fighter, actually landed a strike on Sukuna's body. In another DE, Gojo was able to physically damage Sukuna enough that he couldn't maintain his domain. After the domain closes once more, they enter combat with Gojo throwing a kick, but Sukuna blocks it.

No more scans from this point on since Imgur is tweaking
They open a domain once more. Gojo throws a barrage of punches which Sukuna blocks and attempts to utilize Red and Blue to push and pull him into his attack, but it is still blocked. The domains break once again, and Gojo punches Sukuna into a pole before they both open domains again. This time, Gojo, gaining a slight speed advantage by opening his domain slightly faster, pierces directly through Sukuna's chest, albeit having weakened the spot previously.

Once Gojo suffers Cursed Technique burnout after effects on the brain and Sukuna struggles from brain damage from Unlimited Void, Gojo is still able to land strikes directly on Sukuna's face, dragging him across buildings and throwing him at a distance. Later on, Sukuna is able to catch him and punch Gojo while he is blocking, sending him flying backward. Anything from this point on would be "unfair" since Gojo has the output advantage via Black Flash, so we can briefly go over the important points.

Realize how Gojo consistently places Sukuna on the defensive because of his strength? Gojo is clearly the stronger fighter here, meaning 20F Sukuna would be weaker than Gojo, with or without Blue. Therefore, Gojo should scale to At least Large Town level, while Sukuna should be just Large Town level.
 
Bruh you can clearly see him using his CT. Blue has speed amp. Anyway this is Irreverent to physical sts arguments.
Sukuna was most of the time was trying to hold Gojo down inside the domain instead of attacking him?
Once they entered their second DE, they were once more equal, able to block each other's attacks effectively multiple times. Gojo, being the faster fighter, actually landed a strike on Sukuna's body.
This is Irreverent to striking strength arguments? Because H2H skills has nothing to do with strength.
Not gonna comment anything all I have to say is BLUEEEEEE
No more scans from this point on since Imgur is tweaking
They open a domain once more. Gojo throws a barrage of punches which Sukuna blocks and attempts to utilize Red and Blue to push and pull him into his attack, but it is still blocked. The domains break once again, and Gojo punches Sukuna into a pole before they both open domains again. This time, Gojo, gaining a slight speed advantage by opening his domain slightly faster, pierces directly through Sukuna's chest, albeit having weakened the spot previously.

Once Gojo suffers Cursed Technique burnout after effects on the brain and Sukuna struggles from brain damage from Unlimited Void, Gojo is still able to land strikes directly on Sukuna's face, dragging him across buildings and throwing him at a distance. Later on, Sukuna is able to catch him and punch Gojo while he is blocking, sending him flying backward. Anything from this point on would be "unfair" since Gojo has the output advantage via Black Flash, so we can briefly go over the important points.

Realize how Gojo consistently places Sukuna on the defensive because of his strength? Gojo is clearly the stronger fighter here, meaning 20F Sukuna would be weaker than Gojo, with or without Blue. Therefore, Gojo should scale to At least Large Town level, while Sukuna should be just Large Town level.
What H2H skills has anything to do with SS? Also Sukuna was defensive throughput the fight is explained in chapter 230. He can't bypass infinity without DA while Big Raga was active Sukuna can't use DA.

Also you mixed up Gojo using his CT In your arguments.
 
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