Jiren vs Beerus

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Not quite, he can throw several in succession, he still needs to think to do that, otherwise hit would be able to get a punch in between Dyspo's own blows.

And not quite, Hit was actively trying to avoid him, not really just standing there.


>by my logic

Never said he was above them, just said he was a candidate.

(Also ignoring all this Belmond was worried about SSBx20, if he had to fight it but for jiren it's nothing. So by the words of a god, ssbx20 is already inching up on them but a casual Jiren is already taking things out easier than he would).

 

[Blanked]

No what, let's just wait for confirmations I guess.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

That's pretty much what will happen because Goku isn't meant to surpass Beerus

It wasn't two years ago, it was actually around 70-80 weeks, which would be between 1 and 2 years, but still. That was a long time ago. And he didn't say goku wasn't going to. His exact words were, "I don't plan on Goku surpassing Beerus or Whis anytime soon." Well, that time has come. There were too many statements implying that it has happened. Casual Jiren being possibly above GoDs, and then them being far stronger and the two of them basically being equal until the time limit on Goku's form ran out. Give us until that Maniac episode and we'll see how Goku prevails.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Actually we dont know if Champa could, when Goku first threw the kick out if the crater, seemingly no one but Whis could follow it.
And yeah no,the narrator is word of God.

He's above both of us, if the omniscience narrator says it it's fact.

Eh, this isn't always true, though, the narrator in DBS is more reliable than some I've seen. In Inuyashiki, the narrator describes a Building level attack as "transcendental and beyond human words", and the narrator in Bo-bobo describes Dengakuman as being Omnipotent.

 

[Demon_of_Cinder]

I have to go with Jiren only because he is supposedly a "mortal beyond the power of the gods". I haven't seen enough from him to prove* that he is stronger than Beerus, but I'm sure he can't touch Omni, even with his high level of power.

I love DBZ, GT, Super and the whole Dragon Ball Legacy, but the power levels and heirarchy are never consistent. Some of the fight scenes and feats I've seen on Super are no more impressive than anything I've already seen in the Cell or Majin Boo saga.

When Super Saiyan Goku (Blue Hair) was shot in the heart and at threat of dying because Golden Frieza was about to destroy the planet, it confused me....because Super Saiyan 1 Goku and Frieza Form 4 both survived the destruction of Namek.

I'm just not sure if DB Super has been able to scale the level of power they claim these characters have through visual representation, but again, the creator makes the final judgment.

/ End of my rant

 

[Blanked]

Goku survived the explosion of namek simply cause he got away with one of their flying balls ship things.

And no they don't die from the explosion, but because they can't survive in space.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I don't think the statements should be tajen seriously as a reference of powers to all the gods. The gods where shocked about SSjB and stated it was a power that Rivaled the gods, yet we know SSJB isn't even near Beerus's top potential let alone other gods. Also, it wasn't Belmod who beat Beerus in arm wrestling, it was the rat.

 

[Noahkaismith]

What's the vote count?

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

The explosion of planet Namek destroyed three stars, it was no weak explosion.


And I'll try to count the votes, a moment please.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

5 for Jiren, 5 for inconclusive, 2 for Beerus, and @Noah and @FinalOrder haven't voted. Perhaps your votes could break this tie.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

@Ja Ma
As of now, Beerus can't lay a hand on Goku in UI mode.

But Beerus has those movements too in the manga(the manga was secondary canon or someting.)

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Jiren for being above the G.O.D.

Wasn't not stated that his G.O.D won against beerus?

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

It was. So is that 6 for Jiren now, yes?

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

yush I said Jiren for above reasons.

 

[Golden_Void]

We don't use the manga, and even if we did Beerus still didn't have it perfected in the manga, as he was caught by the robot god.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Clearly Jiren.

The epsiodes implied that a (Casual) Jiren and Ultra Instinct Goku were at the level or above the G.o.D.s.

A serious Jiren would be a total and complete stomp.

 

[RevolverDragon]

This is silly. We're talking about a character we've only seen fight once. Considering it's likely that Hit will do some real damage to Jiren in the next episode, are we now going to say Hit could stomp Beerus?

Wait for more evidence.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

7 for Jiren, 6 for inconclusive, 2 for Beerus.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

This is silly. We're talking about a character we've only seen fight once. Considering it's likely that Hit will do some real damage to Jiren in the next episode, are we now going to say Hit could stomp Beerus?
Wait for more evidence.

statements already proved he is.

 

[Mister_Death]

I'd say probably inconclusive, seeing as we still havent seen Beerus go all-out yet. Even if Jiren were slightly stronger overall, Beerus has shown much more abilities.


So far, Jiren just has overwhelming power, but has shown no technique, just pure physical/mental power.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

>no technique

The fact he was trading blows with ultra Goku says otherwise

 

[Mister_Death]

^I'm talking about "hax"

 

[Ovrhide]

Jiren seems to have somewhat knowledge of ultra instinct, the fact that he moves like goku during round 2 makes me believe he does.

 

[Blanked]

UI isn't this ultimate power that allows you to beat anyone without it. Jiren is simply that skilled. Thou i do think he has it because if he was able to equal and or surpass his God of destruction it wouldn't be a surprise.

 

[RevolverDragon]

This is silly. We're talking about a character we've only seen fight once. Considering it's likely that Hit will do some real damage to Jiren in the next episode, are we now going to say Hit could stomp Beerus?
Wait for more evidence.

statements already proved he is.

Statements are only an adequate way to estimate power. All we know is Jiren is around as strong as a GoD.

We need actual feats besides his one fight with Goku.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Actually, if what Belmond says is anuthing to go by then he's above the gods.

Add whis saying he's comparable if not above gods, while Jiren is casual then yeah.

It's kinda blatant.

 

[RevolverDragon]

Yes. Around the range of the Gods of Destruction.

Which means next to nothing until we see both him and a God of Destruction besides Belmod get serious.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Yeah comparable, when holding back.

And why doesn't Belmond count? Belmond is inferior to Jiren, that's fact.

 

[RevolverDragon]

You mean when Jiren released his dormant ki? If anything, that's when he got serious. If Whis made that comment before the tournament began, then maybe it'd lend credence to high-balling him.

Belmod is but one GoD, and we know they're not all equal in power.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Jiren didnt release anything, at least not till the end, Whis also said Jiren was nowhere near full power after all those other statements.

 

[RevolverDragon]

https://youtu.be/6w_Ew8610X4?t=1m51s

This is when Jiren releases his dormant ki. At his point we know that people who can gauge the full extent of a person's power can get a good read of them. Only when this happens does everyone start saying he's really powerful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKA6xOlkKWM

Whis only makes the claim that he's generally around the strength of a GoD and is likely stronger than his own GoD.

It's too early to extrapolate that what Whis is saying as "casual Jiren is as strong as a GoD," or "Jiren is stronger than all of the GoDs."

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Actually whis said that Jiren is comparable to a god of destruction and perhaps even surpasses it, while Jiren is still casually not going out.

Then afte says that Goku's at his limit and jiren isn't at full power. And that's still casual Jiren there.

Then we see jirens aura flare up and catches uktra Goku's last ditch effort to hurt him, and he catches it easily.

 

[RevolverDragon]

Again, these comments are made only after Jiren unleashes his dormant ki.

You don't know if Whis is saiyng a casual Jiren is comparable to a God of Destruction. For all we know, Whis is saying that Jiren, at his full power, is as strong as a God of Destruction, if not stronger.

Wait until we know more about how Ultra Instinct Goku ranks against Jiren and after Jiren fights Hit, at least.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

What? Whis saud those comparable or above statements while Jiren was casual.

Whis doesn't know Jirens full power, he said those statements based off of how Jiren was at that moment.

And as for whis saying jirens full power, he said by the looks if it he's not, after everything else. Which is later shown to be the case. He was holding back. So we know now casual Jiren >=gods.

Also note the narrator says they fear Goku, and jiren>Goku.

 

[RevolverDragon]

Just because he said it while Jiren was casual does not mean he's definitely referring to Jiren at that moment of time.

Whis already knows that Jiren isn't at his full power during the Spirt Bomb struggle. It seems he knows more about what Jiren's full power is roughly like. Could that be because his full power is around the GoDs?

I don't know. We'll see.

Ultra Instinct's time ran out before Goku hit Jiren. We don't know if UI Goku would have still lost to Jiren if he hadn't had run out of time.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Whis makes the full power statement not because he knows of his full power but because he can now see it's obvious he's not. Prior Whis didn't know anything, Whis is saying these things as he sees them.

If whis knew about it he would of known about him prior and not just a rumour.


Not true, Goku's ui faded after Jiren caught the punch and we know jiren powered up because, well I akready posted the picture, it's obvious.

 

[RevolverDragon]

Goku's eyes returned to normal briefly as the fight neared its end. This meant the transformation was already starting to disappear before Jiren even turned the tables.

I've said my piece. We're talking past each other at this point, so I'll wait until Hit vs Jiren to respond.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

It was fading, you'd have a point if Goku didn't land the best blow he got in the entire fight while his eyes were flickering (the knee to the gut), which means he still had power, and since the form didn't giveaway untill a few seconds after he threw that pinch that's not gonna cut it for now.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

So we have 7 for Jiren and 8 for inconclusive. This thread should probably closed, since most inconclusive answers will likely be answered in the next episode or so.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just so you know, votes for a character override inconclusive. Jiren won.