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Jiren vs Beerus

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Oh yeah, one more thing. Beerus holding back got cut by a much weaker SSJG and was actually punched several times.

Jiren massively holding back handled a far, far stronger SSJG with just his finger.
 
While alot of evidence points to jiren being above the level of G.o.D (stronger than all gods of destruction), i say we wait until more info is brought up. Im very confident that theres going to be more statements about jiren being above G.o.D level.
 
Aeyu said:
Oh yeah, one more thing. Beerus holding back got cut by a much weaker SSJG and was actually punched several times.
Jiren massively holding back handled a far, far stronger SSJG with just his finger.
Click to expand...
That means nothing considering that Goku is 3-A and Beerus was suppressing himself.
 
@Ovrhide

I'm still confident that no matter what, Jiren is still above Beerus.

@Poinciana

>Implying that Goku in SSJG later on wasn't still just a far greater degree of 3-A (Since he absorbed SSJG into his base, that means he stacked God on top of God) and that Jiren wasn't suppressing himself even more, as he was likely holding back even against UI Goku.
 
I still don't understand what your saying.

A 3-A or even a High 3-A can never harm or push a Low 2-C. Beerus could have easily done the same thing, using SSG as a arguments is just wrong.

So saying SSG scratched Beerus means nothing since he was holding back massively.

I do believe that Jiren is stronger then Beerus but SSG has NOTHING to do with this.

Jiren is stronger because Whis believed a suppressed Jiren was equal or above GoD level. Clearly Jiren was holding back against UI Goku as he had casually block a punch with one hand.

He also took two big hits from UI Goku without a scratch.
 
What you're doing right now is imposing our rules and standards unto the show, as if they were scientific. The truth is that most fiction does not treat the distance between 3-A and Low 2-C as infinite, no matter how much we do. This has nothing to do with Jiren being > UI Goku, even though that's very obviously the case; it has to do with Beerus and Jiren's abilities to suppress their power.

Beerus got cut by a massively weaker 3-A attack and punched several times while holding back.

Jiren held off an SSJG that had undergone possibly YEARS of training, stacked on top of a body which had already assimilated SSJG, with a single finger while holding back.

There is a clear and narrative difference in the power levels that was demonstrated visually. Semantics about 3-A and Low 2-C are irrelevant to that point.
 
Aeyu said:
Beerus got cut by a massively weaker 3-A attack and punched several times while holding back.
Jiren held off an SSJG that had undergone possibly YEARS of training, stacked on top of a body which had already assimilated SSJG, with a single finger while holding back.

There is a clear and narrative difference in the power levels that was demonstrated visually.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but this is a silly point. Beerus only got cut and punched because he was holding back a very, very ridiculous amount. You can't compare this heavily surpressed Beerus to a less surpressed Jiren in order to decide who's stronger. It's like saying that Trunks is stronger than Cell because he one shot Frieza while holding back but Cell didn't kill Hercule while holding. Or that Beerus is stronger because he could've killed Kale but Jiren didn't or something.

Also considering that Jiren wasn't considered by Shin, Beerus or Whis to be on the level of a GoD until after he started powering up a lot more since then, it's reasonable to say Beerus could have also done the same thing with SSG Goku.
 
That's not the same at all. That was an SSJG who was far weaker in every aspect than the one that fought Jiren. That's the whole point. And how do you know that Beerus was more suppressed than Jiren?
 
That has nothing to do with the comparison between Jiren and Beerus' handling of a far more powerful and weaker form respectively.

And I've already said that most fiction does NOT treat the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C as infinite. That's putting the Wiki's rules on how the show decides to powerscale, which is erroneous.
 
And how do you know that Trunks was more surpressed than Cell?

It's a ridiculous comparison. Both were immensely holding back during their fights. Using what they did or didn't do while in vastly restrained states to judge their full power is fallcious. You might as well bring up Jiren not instantly killing Maji Kayo or Kale as arguments against his power. Beerus when holding back to such an extent being slightly overpowered by SSG Goku means absolutely nothing at all.

Also again, Jiren wasn't considered to be on Beerus's level until he significantly powered up since then, meaning Beerus most likely could've also done that to upgraded SSG Goku.
 
The difference is, that SSJG Goku was faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar weaker than SSJG Goku in the tournament. And that's also assuming that Jiren = Beerus, which might not be the case, as Whis said he might "surpass," that domain of power.
 
I know that. Again it's completely irrelevant. Beerus was holding back massively against that weak SSG. A vastly supressed Beerus being slightly overpowered by a weak SSG says nothing about his actual full power.

Or else I can start arguing Jiren's weaker because he didn't instantly kill Maji Kayo or Kale with his attacks. Or Cell's weaker than Trunks because he didn't kill Hercule while holding back, but Trunks killed Frieza while holding back. Judging a character's power by how they did when restraining themselves orders of magnitude is ridiculous

Whis says Jiren's power is like that of a God of Destruction's. And said Jiren as strong as a God of Destruction, maybe even stronger. Whis only says this after Jiren massively powered up after his fight with upgraded SSG. This means that Beerus could've also deflected upgraded SSG like that, since Jiren in the restrained state where he did that wasn't considered as strong as Beerus by Whis.
 
Hasn't it been proven that Jiren has been shown to be stronger than the God of Destruction of his universe, being Belmod?
 
I vote for Beerus.

Whis's statement proves this along with this episode today. Whis stated long ago that Goku and Vegeta working together might be able to beat Beerus. Beerus was also compared to SSJB Vegito, who, much like Kefla would have an insane multiplier.

Jiren is powerful, but I don't think he's quite at Beerus's level,
 
dude thats from the movie, movie =/= anime. Movie Beerus is 2 levels of infinity weaker than anime beerus.

and thats the manga.

and kefla is 2 infinities stronger than vegito blue.

its inconclusive
 
Jiren can keep up with UI Goku. Beerus hasn't mastered UI, and has shown no signs of using it. The manga also doesn't count and furthermore it wasn't shown there, either. I get it, people really like Beerus. I do too. But Jiren clearly has the edge here.
 
Just for the record, I believe Jiren most likely wins and have said that multiple times. I just think using Beerus's fight with SSG to prove is a horrible example.
 
I vote for Beerus via TheFinalOrder's reasons. Besides, he has half of hundreds of millions of years of experiance.
 
@Ryu

It's okay, and I thought we were already past that :p

I still think it shows it narratively and visually, but if you don't think that's sufficient for the argument then that's fine.

Also, FinalOrder's reason's are faulty, and Vegito is not above Kefla.
 
EMagoIorSouI said:
I vote for Beerus via TheFinalOrder's reasons. Besides, he has half of hundreds of millions of years of experiance.
Click to expand...
Yeats of experience means nothing in dbs. Belmod has had at the very least 200,000 years of experience as a God of destruction, and he cant beat jiren. Everything is pointing to jiren being above G.o.d in general, and is only a matter of time until it is outright stated.

But like i have repeaded plenty of times, its best to wait till Jiren shows his full power. Its going to be soon anyway.
 
@Aeyu Thank you very much for understanding :)
 
Aeyu said:
He's shown no evidence of it, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
  • SSG Goku is ~ Kale with her powers masterd
  • SSJ2 Goku is >= Caulifla.
Mind you, Goku wasn't even at full stamina when fighting. It's idiotic to assume that two characters far weaker than Goku would be stronger than Vegito using the same fusion method.

I'm sorry, but that train of logic is shot and makes no sense.
 
Basically what Meleenium said. It's the plot's fault, not ours. Kefla was shown to be at a higher level than what was shown for Vegetto, and the manga, where he's compared to Beerus, doesn't count.
 
First of all, this thread is old.

Second of all, someone necroed this thread.

Last of all, let's wait until upgrades come in(or not).


h╠Âa╠Âk╠Âa╠Âi╠Â
 
Well, based on current episodes, is safe to assume hakai doesn't work on jiren. But this thread should be closed until jirens true power is known
 
I think it's safe to say Beerus is still stronger, he didn't seem shook by Jiren unleashing his full power, and didn't even make a mention of how his power compares to his own.
 
Nah.

Full Power Jiren>>Beerus

He is easily beating down BSSJB Vegeta and SSJBKKx20 Goku who are comparable to GoD Toppo at this point, who should be at the very least at the lowest level of GoD (which should put him close to Beerus although probably weaker.)

Besides him being the "mortal not even a God of Destruction can beat" has not been retconned or contradicted at this point.
 
People seem to forget the "A" G.O.D. part of that, it implies Belmod cannot defeat Jiren, which doesn't include the other G.O.D, and we dont know where Vegeta and Goku stack to Beerus, he doesn't seem to mesmerized by their power as he was with Jiren. Toppo got absolutely fodderized, which was dissapointing, I don't even see him beating Sidra (Who's implied to be on the low level of power in comparison to other gods).

Him being the mortal "a" god can't defeat,again, could be just Belmod.
 
The "Mortal that a God of Destruction cant defeat" is two sides of the same coin.

On one hand it can be refering to Jiren being stronger than Belmod.

On the other hand it can refer to anyone in a God of Destruction position as a whole.

I'm more inclined to believe the latter but it comes down to interpretation I guess. Not to mention that Whis says that he might have even surpassed the God of Destruction state as a whole
 
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