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Jiren AP

Why wouldn't it put him above Infinite Zamasu?.

Iirc, Beerus was in shock at Jirens power and Whis compared him to the GoD while he was surpressed but Beerus only showed some concern when they felt Infinite Zamasu.

Havent watched DBS in a while so I'm not sure I'm right.
 
Beerus got mildly annoyed at IZ, sort of like "Goku what the hell did you guys do" while he was ******** himself at Jiren
 
You guys are right, but, what is the source from this image? it's only say things but don't show the source or something like.
DWsQLdqUMAInP2K
 
I'll be honest, I really don't think Toyriama thought that IZ was an entire 2 infinities above everyone else. Goku even said he could have fought Zamasu (Somehow) if he had another senzu, if that means anything.

I myself think they should have been kept at High 3-A, but eh.
 
IZ wae becoming the literal universe. That's undeniable AF. if anything, Goku saying that means he could've been Low 2'C back then as well. It makes sense given that in DB, theres no difference between 3-A and Low 2-C.
 
I'm not saying Infinite Zamasu wasn't Low 2-C. I was referring to Jiren and the rest.


On this site, there is a difference between 3-A and Low 2-C, and as such, we shall rank them with the difference in mind. As such, I really don't think we should really count on Toei's word on this considering their infamous and frankly memetic consistency problems, such as, of course, Low 2-C (which I think Jiren, Berrus nor Goku should actually scale to due to such things) and 3-A gaps. Them saying "Oh he's the mightiest dude" is really vague, and, to beat the horse some more, probably not accounting for Low 2-C being 2 infinites above 3-A. Goku's statement only nails it down further.
 
DMUA said:
I'll be honest, I really don't think Toyriama thought that IZ was an entire 2 infinities above everyone else. Goku even said he could have fought Zamasu (Somehow) if he had another senzu, if that means anything.

I myself think they should have been kept at High 3-A, but eh.
Click to expand...
While i'm pretty sure that they just thought about IZ as "another strong universe level character", given that nothing afterwards comes close to that, and that UI Goku and Jiren together performed an infinitely weaker feat, authors not knowing how strong the characters are isn't a base to downgrade characters.

IZ is definitely not meant to be the unbeatable god tier above literally everyone except two characters, so you simply chalk that up as "authors don't do dimensional tiering" and apply power scaling regularly
 
DMUA said:
I'll be honest, I really don't think Toyriama thought that IZ was an entire 2 infinities above everyone else. Goku even said he could have fought Zamasu (Somehow) if he had another senzu, if that means anything.
I myself think they should have been kept at High 3-A, but eh.
Click to expand...
Toriyama wasn't even the one to create Infinite Zamasu. It was Toei.
 
But, if we're going off of Toyriama's word, we can't just stretch it to our own definitions, we have to see what those words actually meant. Toyriama didn't know that Zamasu was Low 2-C and could oneshot most of the cast, so when Jiren is supposed to be superior to that but only ever performs a High 3-A feat, scaling is sketchy to say the least. If IZ isn't treated as an unbeatable God Tier, he shouldn't be treated as Low 2-C. Though feats beat authors, so.
 
DMB 1 said:
Toriyama wasn't even the one to create Infinite Zamasu. It was Toei.
Click to expand...
forking

meant to say that, but the main idea is still there.
 
Or maybe in the DB verse, the original BoG feat was Low 2-C the entire time as they make no difference between 3-A and Low 2-C hmm?
 
That's, to be blunt, complete wank.

The BoG feat is 3-B considering it would have taken 3 punches to end the universe, but of course Goku got stronger to the point that putting him at 3-A is legit.

Actually, better idea.

DB, and many other verses like it don't even use dimensional tiering, and isn't accurate to just slap onto all verses.
 
And do you have evidence against this? They said IZ was becoming the universe, but he was clearly infesting the timeline and seeping into the past timeline. Goku, who we think is 3-A, said if he was at top condition, would be able to fight said Low 2-C IZ. Beerus, who everyone says could destroy the universe, was mildly annoyed at IZ despite IZ being Low 2-C. Everything points to DB making no distinction of Low 2-C and 3-A. Now if you can find me references that they are referring ONLY to the physical universe when referring to universes, I may concede.
 
Well, of course they aren't refering to physical matter. They likely include time too.


I'm saying that thinking that time in this situation is 4D and 2 infinites above everyone is a crazy assumption, especially when we're using the word of god of people who don't use such a system of power. They think nothing relating to infinity in the matter of Time, only "oh no he's taking the timeline what are we going to do- oh zenoh button"


I cannot prove a negative, you have to prove DB uses dimensional tiering. Proof of Burden they say.
 
@DMUA. I mean, of course DBS isn't treating 3-A, High 3-A, and Low 2-C like we do. A lot of things'd make no sense. Jiren being infinitely stronger than everyone else at the beginning of the tournament. Beerus (and Whis) holding back to literally any percentage against the Saiyans. Infinite Zamasu not infinitely obliterating Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks. Goku going Ultra Instinct, Toppo becoming GoD Candidate, and especially Kefla going SSJ2 Berserker (which is a multiplier) to increase their power by two degrees of infinity. Goku and Vegeta's Zenkais towards the end of the Torunament. Jiren being weakened enough to be damaged by base Goku, Frieza, and MVP Android 17. All of those show that they don't consider it the same as us.

Doesn't change the fact that Infinite Zamasu shows Low 2-C feats and the characters ranked above him are indeed stronger than him.
 
Occtam razor says the path of least assumptions is most logical.


Why assume that the only reason 3-A, High 3-A and Low 2-C is not portrayed differently but regardless they are still infinites apart when the show enforces that this is not the case? Why assume dimension tiering applies to verses that seemly go out of their way to contradict such a system?


Wouldn't it be way simplier for the simple answer to be that in DB, Low 2-C isn't treated like Low 2-C, and the inconsistent statements regarding Zamasu suddenly do indeed make sense?

Why would we call Zamasu Low 2-C, then use word of god, when Word of God doesn't treat it that way?
 
How is DBS stating that Jiren is the strongest adversary "vague". To my knowledge, him being the strongest adversary has been reinforced numerous times and isn't a singular statement.

And if you're referencing vague statements, Goku stating that he could fight IZ with a senzu bean is far more vague.
 
Jesus it's like every month we go through this same topic over and over, would think with dbs anime being over we wouldn't get this anymore, but nope.
 
Bluetrekking said:
How is DBS stating that Jiren is the strongest adversary "vague". To my knowledge, him being the strongest adversary has been reinforced numerous times and isn't a singular statement.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think that's the wrong choice of words.... I can't put my finger on the proper definition of what I'm referring to... ah well.
 
"Occtam razor says the path of least assumptions is most logical.


Why assume that the only reason 3-A, High 3-A and Low 2-C is not portrayed differently but regardless they are still infinites apart when the show enforces that this is not the case? Why assume dimension tiering applies to verses that seemly go out of their way to contradict such a system?


Wouldn't it be way simplier for the simple answer to be that in DB, Low 2-C isn't treated like Low 2-C, and the inconsistent statements regarding Zamasu suddenly do indeed make sense?"

You repeatedly keep going to the downplay route. Occam's Razor states that the simplest answer with the least assumptions is the most logical, that'd mean that in DB, A Universe (What they're referring to) would be Low 2-C since they make no effort to differentiate them. Why would Goku state he could fight and possibly beat IZ if he's only High 3-A, which is literally AT BEST a weaksauce version of Low 2-C.
 
Because the Low 2-C isn't actually treated as a Low 2-C in this world. He's not treated as being infinitely above infinity above the rest of the cast (Which is ironic now come to think of it since he's infinite zamasu), so, why would we do the same and just slap dimensional tiering as a form of reverse Flex Tape that confuses the scaling more then it needs?

Jiren and Goku are treated as immensely stronger then anyone else, yes, but Zamasu isn't, so why do we?
 
The Everlasting said:
No series treats Low 2-C like we do. None.
Click to expand...
Then why should we rate them as such? Why do we use Dimensional Tiering for verses that don't use it? Isn't that in improper way to rate the statistics of characters if we use a standard of power that, on the grand scheme of things, practically nobody uses? Why automatically assume something that isn't actually the case? Proof of burden should be on the verse for Dimensional Tiering.

Dragon

Well, Akerious started arguing Low 2-C BoG, I argued that makes less sense then 3-A Infinite Zamasu, and that's how that went down.


Also, I think Dragon Ball is more then the problem. I think we shouldn't just automatically assume every verse actually uses dimensional tiering.
 
Don't really care about the rating of DB but

Isn't IZ a Low 2-C being by definition of what he is?

The way he's described is literally Low 2-C

I can understand people not buying things like the scaling or maybe calling it an outlier, but i'm 100% IZ is Low 2-C by what animu has given to us
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
This is not the thread for this. Make a thread otherwise your opinion is pointless and will change nothing. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...
I will but... I'm pretty sure most people would kinda... not take that part well.


Well, no use dwelling on it. I'll get to it within a few hours.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Can't we all just get along?

Someone make everyone else cupcakes. That always brings people together ovo
Click to expand...


I don't see any hostility here.


Meh depends on the type of cupcakes.
 
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