Jiren's AP Justification

[Aachintya31]

Currently We Have Jiren as Low 2-C due to the following reason :

Universe level+ (He is repeatedly stated by Shin, Goku, and Vegeta to be the most powerful opponent Universe 7 has ever faced, as well as the mightiest foe in Dragon Ball history, putting him above even Infinite Zamasu. Is stated and shown to be far more powerful than Toppo).

A Number characters scales to Low 2-C due to the above mentioned statement.
Could anyone Link the exact scene from where this has been brought up because the scan on his profile (the mightiest foe in Dragon Ball history) looks weird and lacks citation .

Edit : How much into Atleast low 2-C is Perfected Ultra Instinct Goku and Full Power and Limits Broken Jiren and the difference in both key's AP?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I forgot which episode count specifically, but it was about the same episode Goku went UIS for the first time and a statement was specifically by Whis where he straits up says Jiren is stronger than Fusion Zamasu.

 

[Aachintya31]

I forgot which episode count specifically, but it was about the same episode Goku went UIS for the first time and a statement was specifically by Whis where he straits up says Jiren is stronger than Fusion Zamasu.

I suppose it is this statement which is much different from the reasoning given on his profile .I dont think any statement is in regard with fusion infinite zamasu as he was low 2c because of his 4D existence and not raw strength.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

because the scan on his profile (the mightiest foe in Dragon Ball history) looks weird and lacks citation .

I dont think any statement is in regard with fusion zamasu as he was low 2c because of his 4D existence and not raw strength.

that's what i'm saying.

 

[Aachintya31]

That's really sus
Preview By Definition is : "display (a product, film, etc.) before it is made generally available."
Also, I dont think so we get the actual statement of him being the strongest foe in dragon ball history in actual display i.e Episode 129
Preview shouldn't be taken as actual media as many a time actual content is changed as seen in marvel trailers and even DBS super hero

Spoiler: DBS MOVIE

(where cell max wasn't mention

) due to various reasons (Ex : spoiler ,legal contracts etc..)
Not to mention that this poster/preview contains elements from both anime and manga and we have different scaling standards for both.

He is repeatedly stated by Shin, Goku, and Vegeta to be the most powerful opponent Universe 7 has ever faced

I didn't find such statements (Got them).this dosen't put him above Fused infinite zamasu's 4D existence

Is stated and shown to be far more powerful than Toppo.

This is literally backscaling him
Jiren > God Toppo >Golden frieza and 17's self destruct ~ SSB vegeta who was able to trade blows with jiren
I hope Jiren's AP justification could be improved a bit as a lot of scaling is based on him

 

[Aachintya31]

I forgot which episode count specifically, but it was about the same episode Goku went UIS for the first time and a statement was specifically by Whis where he straits up says Jiren is stronger than Fusion Zamasu.

Anyways Just Noticed Fusion Zamasu is 3-A

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Fusion Zamasu has 3 forms; with Infinite Zamasu being his 3rd. It's also the only version of Fusion Zamasu Beerus and Whis saw in person.

Also, you don't have to be a 4-D being to have Low 2-C levels of strength; if a 3-D character happens to be stronger than a Low 2-C 4-D being, then the 3-D character in question is Low 2-C. Beerus was unimpressed but Zamasu's 4-D form and Whis is also fully aware if his power, but still considered even a base casual Jiren to be above him. And Beerus was freaking out over the thought of Jiren being stronger than himself.

I don't get why people are still making such as big deal over something that's so basic.

 

[Vietthai96]

You can be 3D and have 1-A power, so a 3D guy have 4D power is not that of a big deal

 

[Aachintya31]

You can be 3D and have 1-A power, so a 3D guy have 4D power is not that of a big deal

Is it raw strength or with help of some equipment ?

 

[Vietthai96]

Is it raw strength or with help of some equipment ?

raw power, you can see a bunch of SMT characters have 1-A power despite being 3D, or Fate character have Low 1-C to 1-C power despite being 3D

 

[Aachintya31]

Agreed but i'll list my problem in this case

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Let me speak metaphorically, in the world of fiction, there exist creatures no bigger than an Earthworm, and yet, possess power greater than the big bang. In fact, it's possible for even 2 dimensional or 1 dimensional creatures to possess raw power comparable if not superior to various 3-D characters. It just means characters can be small sized for their tiers. The same thing can also happen even regarding dimensional planes or multiple degrees of higher infinity.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

at the same time, a 4d character could also have 3d power, no?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

at the same time, a 4d character could also have 3d power, no?

If they're finite on both dimensional planes, then yeah. It's even possible for 11-D beings for example to simply be 5-B

 

[Nullflowerblush]

What evidence is there to support the notion that Infinite Zamasu has Low 2-C power on top of his 4D existence? His Ki is never stated to have increased, and his energy blasts could be briefly countered by Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks, three 3-As. If there was any evidence, I've forgotten.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Zamasu was specifically stated to be getting stronger and stronger with each and every second that passes. It also literally stated was was becoming one with the universe while the process was still on going. But at one point, he actually reached that, and was starting to approach going 2-C, not just Low 2-C. Beerus and Whis sensed him while he already reached Low 2-C and was approaching 2-C. Being 4-D doesn't make you Low 2-C if the 4-D existence is limited to just some 4-D structure of a planet sized pocket reality for instance. But in Zamasu's case, he literally merged with a Low 2-C sized timeline and being Low 2-C.

Also, this is now going off topic to what the OP brought up, and nothing brought up was ever new to being with. It honestly should just be closed at this point.

 

[Aachintya31]

Also, this is now going off topic to what the OP brought up, and nothing brought up was ever new to being with. It honestly should just be closed at this point.

Please Wait for a bit.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

unless i missed something the "stronger and stronger every second" statement does not exist

 

[Aachintya31]

Let me speak metaphorically, in the world of fiction, there exist creatures no bigger than an Earthworm, and yet, possess power greater than the big bang. In fact, it's possible for even 2 dimensional or 1 dimensional creatures to possess raw power comparable if not superior to various 3-D characters. It just means characters can be small sized for their tiers. The same thing can also happen even regarding dimensional planes or multiple degrees of higher infinity.

Agreed

Zamasu being Low 2-C no issues with it.

Beerus was unimpressed but Zamasu's 4-D form and Whis is also fully aware if his power

Beerus and Whis picked Faint presence of Zamasu on earth from beerus's planet, that doesn't justify them for being fully aware of his power as larger the distance more faint is the ki signature and being unimpressed with Zamasu's Faint power and Feared About Jiren's power has no relation with their full power. Beerus was unimpressed at goku black's and immortal zamasu's power and said he could destroy them ,no mention about being unimpressed over 4D zamasu's power not to mention he looked pretty much serious at infinte zamasu's faint presence.

Beerus was freaking out over the thought of Jiren being stronger than himself.

Beerus was freaking over the thought that his team would lose and he would be erased out of existence ,not from the thought of jiren being stronger than himself

I don't get why people are still making such as big deal over something that's so basic.

Not making a deal for changing his AP but rather a more solid justification for him having 3 keys
This should be the only probable reason for him to be "likely "stronger than infinite zamasu (still questionable) as even this was said at the time due to push back of the heavy universal spirit bomb from jiren over goku's strength
while his 2nd and 3rd should be one for being scaled to beerus and champa's Half 2-C feat (even though toyotaro has said Post-TOP goku and vegeta to be far from beerus in terms of strength and could also be anyone of 4 non participating universes)

 

[Aachintya31]

Another refute regarding These statements is that they indeed encountered heavier energy when zeno Destroyed all of existence or we have 2-C jiren.

 

[Vietthai96]

Another psuedo-CRT in form of Q&A thread???. Anyway the question is answered, if you have doubt or something or want to downgrade you can make a CRT

 

[Aachintya31]

Another psuedo-CRT in form of Q&A thread???. Anyway the question is answered, if you have doubt or something or want to downgrade you can make a CRT

Not really a CRT but rather a proper justification for his profile or if so the question is answered this thread can be closed i may make a CRT but not soon.