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- #321
Yes, that’s the gist of it. Not “everything” is incoherent, but establishing that the majority of his work needs to be standalone is fine by me. Some elements will intermingle here and there and that’s fine.
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J.M. DeMatteis (Marvel Cosmology Split)
- Thread starter VeryGoofyToddler2
- Start date
Yes, that’s the gist of it. Not “everything” is incoherent, but establishing that the majority of his work needs to be standalone is fine by me. Some elements will intermingle here and there and that’s fine.
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Well yes, if it were the other way around, a standalone cosmology for DeMatteis would not have been necessary.
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Ok this seems reasonable to me.
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So far, it looks okay.
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I agree with Elizio33, both regarding DeMatteis and Starlin.
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I believe we already split that cosmology, don't we?
Revising Marvel's Abstracts (Part 2.5 of ?????)
Well, ******* finally. As it stands, this thread will largely only discuss scaling and presentation of profiles, so, those who are not interested in this are free to ignore it. I'm also not terribly sure if this is controversial enough to warrant being moved to the Staff Discussion board, as...
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Yeah but i was more saying to make a Starlin's independent cosmology.I believe we already split that cosmology, don't we?
Revising Marvel's Abstracts (Part 2.5 of ?????)
Well, ******* finally. As it stands, this thread will largely only discuss scaling and presentation of profiles, so, those who are not interested in this are free to ignore it. I'm also not terribly sure if this is controversial enough to warrant being moved to the Staff Discussion board, as...vsbattles.com
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I think the comics J.M. published are from the main universe. First of all:
1. The stuff J.M. published happens outside The Mystery, and that’s why J.M. explanations seem unrelated to the current cosmology because everything in those stories takes place outside The Mystery.
2. It makes a lot of sense that we didn’t see Oblivion in Defenders: Beyond, from traveling from Superflow to Hoi, since he’s been saying for a long time that he exists outside all realm, including The Mystery. This matches what J.M. published about Oblivion
And3. that makes even more sense with Oblivion saying he existed before creation I think that includes Toaa and Hoi as well.>•-
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- #329
Existing outside the Mystery is kind of hard to define since it is supposedly infinite. I do agree that it takes place outside the main continuity and doesn't really go well with anything.
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- #331
We have four, but it has been like this for a while due to waiting on Ultima.
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The latter I think.
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- #335
Most of the things require a profile. So more or less both. For the Divine Creator, Oblivion, Eternity, Chthon, etc…will get keys.
For characters without a profile such as Maya, Cleito, Job, etc…they will require a profile.
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- Thread starter
- #337
Waiting on a certain administrator really does test your patience. Anywho, he's likely to be here “very soon.”
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Genuine question, but as I look into DeMatteis' stories, the line between their 'Gods' are clearly intended to be comparable. Especially with him stating anytime he mention God in his stories is referring to the same God. So, with that in mind, wouldn't it be possible to scale every interpretation of God in DeMatteis' stories to each other , since DeMatteis is explicitly on the nose with stating that they are all effectively the same God ?
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- #339
Yeah, they're all 0 on the same basis.
Lordhesperus
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Many people still find it hard to believe that the TOAA and the divine creator are different and view the divine creator as aspect of the TOAA.
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- #341
They believe in a more compote route rather than a split cosmology as we do here, that's the difference. Though, “most people” tend to forget the existence of characters like this and form a weird misconception about it being an aspect of the One Above All.
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Um. So Universal Eternity says this in JM DeMatteis Comics, during the old Defenders comics:
"There came a point when I was torn by this cosmic solitude that beggars description, when I desperately craved the experience of Duality, Otherness"
This seems to imply that Eternity himself is not just transdual, but completely beyond Duality as a concept. That's utterly insane.
"There came a point when I was torn by this cosmic solitude that beggars description, when I desperately craved the experience of Duality, Otherness"
This seems to imply that Eternity himself is not just transdual, but completely beyond Duality as a concept. That's utterly insane.
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Scan and source, please?
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This is insane. Like, even if we assume this is True Eternity and not an avatar, this isn't even referring to The Divine Creator (who is seriously who I would've expected something like this from). This is referring to an entity very much within and is the embodiment of a significant aspect of the Dream itself. In other words:
- It would scale to the Men of Lineage for keeping the Dream into existence
- It would scale to Job Burke for being beyond Adam Kadmon's and Termineus' comprehension
- It would scale to Ted Salis for maintaining the Dream during the unreleased issues of 3-4 which are described in the marvunapp
- It would scale to an peak Doctor Strange for using Magic to keep All of Creation from ending.
- It would scale to Cleito for embodying all of the Dream
- It would scale to the Nexus for embodying everything and even a single fragment allows you to become one with all of creation and said single fragment amped a Herald tier to oneshot a Men of Lineage level entity
- It would scale to the Amped Scrier who is equal to an Man-Thing amped by the Nexus. Men of Lineage and the Fallen Stars (which being amped by the Nexus should be >>>>> being amped by a single fragment)
- It would scale to DeMatteis' depiction of Franklin for overloading a Man-Thing who can handle the aforementioned ridiculous amp.
- And finally, it would scale to Oblivion for being the Nothingness that the entirety of everything within the Dream returns to.
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- #346
Helps with type 5 acausality; not dual like Maya, not non-dual like Eternity, not outside duality like Oblivion, but Divine Creator is also not dual nor non-dual nor not non-dual.
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Huh. Acausality Type 5 would be perfect, but what would this mean for Eternity from a tiering standpoint ? Obviously it isn't 0 but-
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It's High 1-A.
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Alright. Thanks to Nexus Fragment scaling the God-Tiers would be stupidly high into High 1-A.
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It's just High 1A or High 1A+?
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- #351
Either infinite layers into High 1-A or just type 1 High 1-A+, but that's a bit of a stretch.
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We have 4 staff members agreeing with this CRT. Why is it still not available
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I don't think it is. It's clear that the Men of Lineage can significantly affect the Dream itself , which would be a High 1-A+ structure via being a Tier 0's Dream World. They were specifically created with that purpose by The Divine Creator so it wouldn't be an outlier either.
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I hope they get accepted if the CRT gets accepted.
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- #355
Being the embodiment of the Dream usually gets you High 1-A+ but that falls flat if there's a larger space. In this case Oblivion transcends Creation, so he would get High 1-A+ rather than Creation/Dream itself. When I was asking Ultima earlier about the Ocean of Dreams being High 1-A+(type 1), he shut it down saying embodying all possible space already is covered.
I'm still unsure how type 1 works in conjunction with type 2.
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Yeah we technically got 4 staff approvals ages ago. We should probably ask Antvasima what to do about this, since it seems very likely that Ultima will be too busy to evaluate this.
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I see. That's unfortunate. Are you positive he doesn't just transcend Creation and not the Dream ? I'll need to reread the Iceman / Mighty Thor Annual comics to be doubly sure of that.
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- #358
Typically, nothingness is uncreated even by God though he does contain it. So Oblivion isn't part of the Dream, at least not his true form, that's simply an aspect of God ie his unconscious. The Dream would just be Creation, and Oblivion by proxy of transcending Creation also transcends the Dream as well. Unless, you want to get into semantics about “Dream” being everything that isn't God thus illusory then yeah, that's a viewpoint in which Oblivion doesn't transcend but I feel that approach doesn't look right.
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I think Antvasima still need an Ultima for this
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