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It's that TIME again.(Jiren, Goku and Hit potential upgrade, DBS)

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I don't see why giving him immeasurable speed is such a deal breaker when LITERALLY ALMOST NO ONE could see Goku and Jiren's movements when fighting.
 
That or his senses are simply to the level where he can. That's more believable in all honesty
 
@Aeyu

Do you understand the connotations of Immeasurable speed?

Immeasurable speed is not simply overwhelmingly faster than anyone else, it's literally being able to travel through time to past, present, and future through pure movement, attack from multiple points in space at once, and move independently of time and space itself.

If Jiren or Goku were immeasurable, their movements would not only be invisible, but the entire fight would have literally taken no time at all.

Dragon Ball has not shown anything on this level. Drop this immediately.
 
How fast are Dragon Ball characters now?


Back in the BoG Saga, it was calcualted in the quadrillions right?


They should be in the quintillions to sextillions by now right?
 
That's not the point, my point is that it doesn't matter WHAT speed he is. There's been Low 2-C's and above with MFTL and lower speed.
 
Wouldn't this count more of Jiren resisting Hit's Time hax than anything else? General rule with DB is that you can resist hax if your powerful enough. Hence, if there's a big enough gap between two character the stronger one can overpower the weaker's hax.

Not too mention that Goku threw off Hit's Time Skip way back when he and Hit first after he powered up enough with Kaio-ken. Would this situation not be similiar. Hit improved to try and match Jiren but Jiren is powerful enough to counter.

Just saying, it seem a little crazy to be saying that Jiren's Low 2-C or has Immeasurable Speed as those are massive outliers and we have evidence on how to resist Hit's Time Hax in the first place.
 
MeleeniumRXJ said:
Hit should definitely get High 3-A. He held a High 3-A being frozen in place, and he put a literal dent in him. At the very least, he should get "3-A. High 3-A with Time Lock".
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I can at least agree with this. The rest is just pure hype and vague statements
 
At least let this live until other staff see it. My point still stands, and even if they stay High 3-A, it should be put in their AP, and stated in the description that they are on a 4-D level. Also, what do you all think of a 3-A, possibly High 3-A Hit, who was capable of damaging Jiren, if even slightly?
 
Goku and Hit are the only ones Jiren even bothers to actually fight so I agree with MeleeniumRXJ's suggestions.
 
The Everlasting said:
If Jiren transcends time, that at best means he has Infinite/Immeasurable speed, which is an extreme outlier.
Click to expand...


No, the quote in question makes reference as how his "power" trascends time, which would be an argument for him having the higher end High 3-A and some time resistance as time-based attacks can be broken by sheer power.

If you want to argue for infinite speed the statement would have needed to be something among the lines of his speed trascending time.
 
I don't really agree with Low 2-C Jiren or Immeasurable Jiren. But I'm fine with Jiren having resistance to time manipulation as well as Hit being 3-A Possibly/Likely High 3-A. Jiren did say only Goku and Hit were worthy enough for him to fight.
 
Why is speed even an argument when Zen'o is literally 2-C and is MFTL+? Also, why WOULDN'T this scale to Fusion Zamasu, who was never stated to TRANSCEND time, but merely affect it? Answer me that.
 
Peter1129 said:
I don't really agree with Low 2-C Jiren or Immeasurable Jiren. But I'm fine with Jiren having resistance to time manipulation as well as Hit being 3-A Possibly/Likely High 3-A. Jiren did say only Goku and Hit were worthy enough for him to fight.
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I doubt its only time resitance. Vados claimed that his power transcended time itself, not that he can resist time stop. Im all up for low 2-C Jiren.
 
Ovrhide said:
Peter1129 said:
I don't really agree with Low 2-C Jiren or Immeasurable Jiren. But I'm fine with Jiren having resistance to time manipulation as well as Hit being 3-A Possibly/Likely High 3-A. Jiren did say only Goku and Hit were worthy enough for him to fight.
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I doubt its only time resitance. Vados claimed that his power transcended time itself, not that he can resist time stop. Im all up for low 2-C Jiren.
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However, Hit's Time Hax has been countered by his opponent being able to out muscle him like when he and Goku fought in hte Champa/Beerus tournament.
 
Ovrhide said:
Peter1129 said:
I don't really agree with Low 2-C Jiren or Immeasurable Jiren. But I'm fine with Jiren having resistance to time manipulation as well as Hit being 3-A Possibly/Likely High 3-A. Jiren did say only Goku and Hit were worthy enough for him to fight.
Click to expand...
I doubt its only time resitance. Vados claimed that his power transcended time itself, not that he can resist time stop. Im all up for low 2-C Jiren.
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This, coupled with my above statements about Fusion Zamasu not even transcending time, and him already being considered to possibly scale.
 
Well at least Zamasu has actual feats to back up the statements made for him (appearing in the present and becoming one with the universe).

All Jiren has is one vague statement which might very well imply his resistance to Hit's Time-Skip and Time-Lock.
 
Immesurable still seems an outlier for me. Every character in the current arc caps at MFTL+, which covers speeds between 1000x FTL to all the way to infinte amounts of speed, so it's not like Jiren and Goku can blitz other MFTL+ characters being MFTL+ themselves. Although I don't see any problem with Infinite speed Jiren and Goku since DB characters increase their speed as they become more powerful (with a few exceptions like the USSJ forms), but I don't believe these statements are enough to solidify Jiren (and pretty much anyone that scales to him) as Low 2-C nor having Infinite or Immesurable speed. Akira and Toei writers don't seem to grasp the concept of dimensions very well (just see the end of the Goku Black arc), and that statement was most likely used in a way to express the fact that Jiren is able to overcome Time Manipulation hax (in that case Hit's Time Skip). That's my interpretation of that scene at least.
 
Lokiofasgard55 said:
With all the ass-pulls Dragon Ball has been pulling lately, I don't doubt that Jiren will eventually get to 2-C level.
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Next thing we know, Jiren will resist Zeno's erase when his team loses.
 
Super Saiyan God Julian said:
Well at least Zamasu has actual feats to back up the statements made for him (appearing in the present and becoming one with the universe).
All Jiren has is one vague statement which might very well imply his resistance to Hit's Time-Skip and Time-Lock.
Click to expand...
Might imply?

And why is there no comment about the sources and their reliability?

may I just remind everyone


THAT GOKU, GODS, ANGELS AND JIREN WERE UPPED TO HIGH 3-A BASED ON TWO STATMENTS MADE BY TWO RELIABLE SOURCES, same as here?
 
@Ovrhide

Until there is more evidence for Low 2-C Jiren other than vague statements I will always be against it.
 
@Aeyu

There's a difference.

Zamasu merged with his timeline, becoming the totality of his universe and its space-time. This is Low 2-C.

Vague statements about whether or not Jiren transcends time do not qualify since he does not interact with the totality of his space-time at once. Therefore he is not Low 2-C.

Drop this now.
 
Reppuzan said:
@Aeyu
There's a difference.

Zamasu merged with his timeline, becoming the totality of his universe and its space-time. This is Low 2-C.

Vague statements about whether or not Jiren transcends time do not qualify since he does not interact with the totality of his space-time at once. Therefore he is not Low 2-C.

Drop this now.
Click to expand...
What about scaling? And statements made previously by other reliable sources?

Low 2-C is spacetime AP on a universal level. I do not see how he DOESN'T qualify, even if he's inferior to Fusion Zamasu.
 
There is a difference in saying:


"The entire world of Void is shaking"

Said statement is not contradicted and said void has already been mention as Infinite and...


"Jiren transcends time"

Which has little to no context and is severely contradicted by his feats and as I said could imply that Jiren is unaffected by Hit's time skip. This makes far more sense as it was first stated by Vados of all people (the angel of Hit's Universe).


So it's not about the sources being reliable. It's about what they actually mean and said statements not being contradictory.
 
TheC2 said:
This entire thread needs to be hit with Occam's Razor.
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>Applying Occam's razor in the face of solid statements and scaling

Just because people don't want something (bias, logic) doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.
 
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