It's that TIME again.(Jiren, Goku and Hit potential upgrade, DBS)

[AnimeFanboy2916]

Personally, I think this is just immunity/resistance to time hax.

 

[Js250476]

Pretty much what I've been saying and what the quote is most likely referring to

 

[Aizenishere]

Universe level+: ("Low 2-C") This is for characters who can destroy and/or create the entire 4-dimensional space-time of one universe, not just the physical matter within one. For example, an entire timeline.

^ is what's required to be considered Low 2-C so I don't think we have enough just yet to justify a Low 2-C Jiren

 

[Golden_Void]

.*cough*Zamasu only merged with one universe, not a timeline*cough*

 

[Aeyu]

This does scale to Fusion Zamasu's infinite form, though. TBH when these characters are already being considered for Low 2-C and then fuel is added to the fire, with statements from TWO reliable sources, it kind of makes a stronger case.

Also, name ONE character who *transcends* time who is also already High 3-A, and is stated to by RELIABLE sources.

 

[Giygas3]

Mmm, In the context "Not even time itself means nothing to Jiren Strength" Not really sure what to make of this tho.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Animefanboy

Not immunity, resistance. We never use the word immunity except in the most extreme circumstances.

@Low 2-C Jiren Supporters

Until Jiren has shown the ability to affect the entirety of a space-time, he is not getting upgraded, end of story.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Transcending time and being universal doesn't suddenly grant you the ability to destroy everything the universe is, was or ever will be, nor does it equate to destroying the space-time continuum in its totality.

 

[Golden_Void]

We should also keep in mind, that Shin stated Jiren's power was the strongest he's ever felt, and he was present during the Infinite Zamasu fight.

 

[Boros-fan]

Doesn't the guy with the higher powerlevel always ignore the weaker guys hax?

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Feels different" =/= stronger.

 

[AnimeFanboy2916]

Resistance it is! It's still a crazy ability regardless. Honestly, even as a Dragon Ball fan, I kinda don't want Tier 2 Dragon Ball characters outside of high-tier gods.

 

[Aeyu]

lel

When he is compared to other characters with similar abilities

then said to TRANSCEND the thing that makes them Low 2-C, that is definitely a cause for an upgrade. Don't let your dislike of DB affect scaling these characters.

 

[Aizenishere]

.*cough*Zamasu only merged with one universe, not a timeline*cough*

He was affecting space-time though.

 

[Aeyu]

Resistance it is! It's still a crazy ability regardless. Honestly, even as a Dragon Ball fan, I kinda don't want Tier 2 Dragon Ball characters outside of high-tier gods.

Not wanting it has nothing to do with how it should be scaled.

 

[Moathon]

It should be noted that Jiren can't manipulate time himself. Example: Dio freezes time on Jiren, Jiren can't move in stopped time. He can however react to time freeze like he did against Hit. The cool thing is that Jiren is immune to being paradoxes, erasing timelines or trying to chronofreeze him won't work, so Asriel Demeurr can't touch him lmao. Throw him a bone Antvasima, Jiren is on a whole nother level.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Now you're accusing us of being biased and that's why we're denying the upgrade. Stop that.

Again, transcending time (Which doesn't even seem that literal in this context) does not mean Jiren can destroy the entire space-time continuum.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Aeyu

There's no reference to space-time or spatial dimensions. Hence, no Low 2-C.

I'm extremely tempted to close this due to how faulty this reasoning is.

 

[AnimeFanboy2916]

@Aeyu

Do you really think upgrading characters to Tier 2 is a good thing? If they were to reach Tier 2 out of sheer physical strength, they'd get hax'd into oblivion by literally everyone in Tier 2.

 

[Aeyu]

No, all I'm politely saying is please don't let a bias affect a rational argument.

And maybe not, but it does give a much stronger argument to him scaling to Fusion Zamasu, something already discussed and considered by staff and users alike.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Could it be argued that Kale breaking out of Cocotto's pocket dimension is comparable to Jiren breaking out of Hit's time-lock?

 

[Js250476]

I mean seriously if this was reference to fighting Hit couldn't it just easily mean that he's resistant to time manipulation?

 

[AnimeFanboy2916]

Personally, I think this is the limit for Dragon Ball. There's only so much you can do with just pure raw, physical power. Even if they were to become Low 2-C, it wouldn't go that much higher.

 

[Dziga]

Wouldn't that classify as resistance to Time Skip just like Goku?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Aeyu

You do realize that half the staff are Dragon Ball fans, right?

If accusing us of bias is your best argument then there's really no point in keeping this open.

The explanation with the fewest number of assumptions is Resistance to Time Manipulation. Until new episodes come out that prove otherwise, I'm not budging on this issue.

 

[Aeyu]

Except when it's stated by two reliable sources that he transcends the entirety of time and already might scale to a Low 2-C, it's cause for a "Possibly Low 2-C," argument at the very least.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Aeyu

The fact that you're pulling the "you're biased" card is very clear.

Him scaling to Fusion Zamasu is frankly really faulty, as Shin only says that Jiren's power feels different than any previous opponent, not that it's greater.

Seriously, transcending time (Even if we take that as fully literal) does not make Jiren Tier 2.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Personally, I think this is the limit for Dragon Ball. There's only so much you can do with just pure raw, physical power. Even if they were to become Low 2-C, it wouldn't go that much higher.

Well Zeno is solid 2-C due to raw power.

 

[Js250476]

I bet people would accuse you of being a dragon ball fanboy if you accepted this TBH people like to throw bias accusations a lot against people they disagree with it seems

 

[Aeyu]

Also, I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I was merely trying to politely ask objectivity in the argument, especially when it was something already considered not a week ago.

 

[Moathon]

Could it be argued that Kale breaking out of Cocotto's pocket dimension is comparable to Jiren breaking out of Hit's time-lock?

I'm going to assume that POCKET dimensions in dragon ball don't scale immediately to 2-c. also, it was expictately stated that hit was using time manipulation, not POCKET dimensions, to freeze jiren. POCKET dimensions and toki togashi are two different abilities hit uses.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well it is entirely possible that this statement meant that Hit could not completely use his Time-Skip technique on him.


As of now everything that supports Low 2-C Jiren has been vague statements with different interpretations.

 

[Golden_Void]

"Feels different" =/= stronger.

Given the multiple contexts throughout that episode, stating Jiren is like a hakaishin if not stronger, while fighting a Goku that has gotten leagues stronger than he was in that arc, what else could he possibly mean when referring to his power? I can bring you a boatload of scans with similar if not exactly the same context.

 

[Tyranno223]

Pretty sure everyone though tier 4 was the limit for db for ages, you never know Goku might somehow learn the "mastery of timelines and dimensions" to beat the Supreme omni king of destruction

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Not even remotely Melee.

Also Ever, shin's statement about it feeling different is to be taken as another scale, thats always how that wording has been used in dragon ball, it's been like that since day 1.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

If nothing else, Jiren at least gets resistance to time manipulation. The statement that he transcends time, could mean that he's acausal too. But that might be a reach. And I think it's also possible that Jiren gets the other type of High 3-A, where a character has a significant amount of 4-D power, but it's less than universal in scale.

 

[Js250476]

I remember when the highest OBD had for dragon ball before Super was small star level so it could definitely still surprise us

 

[Aeyu]

"Feels different" =/= stronger.

Given the multiple contexts throughout that episode, stating Jiren is like a hakaishin if not stronger, while fighting a Goku that has gotten leagues stronger than he was in that arc, what else could he possibly mean when referring to his power? I can bring you a boatload of scans with similar if not exactly the same context.

This, and the fact that it comes from two reliable sources, and that High 3-A was finalized due to two also reliable sources saying the same exact thing.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Not even remotely Melee.
Also Ever, shin's statement about it feeling different is to be taken as another scale, thats always how that wording has been used in dragon ball, it's been like that since day 1.

I have never heard it used in that context.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

If nothing else, Jiren at least gets resistance to time manipulation. The statement that he transcends time, could mean that he's acausal too. But that might be a reach. And I think it's also possible that Jiren gets the other type of High 3-A, where a character has a significant amount of 4-D power, but it's less than universal in scale.

I agree with this. The best i can give Jiren is the 4D type of High 3-A and even then that is only if we take this statement as literally transcending time which would mean Infinite/Immeasurable Jiren.