Issues with Bill Cipher's powers and abilities.

[GarrixianXD]

Resurrection (Not combat applicable and Mid-Godly overtime. Implied that, thanks to the Axolotl, he can come back after his erasure,[8] with the latter knowing about it, though details such as the methods or how much time it takes are unknown, with it also likely being the reason why Bill is trapped in a cosmic punishment where he's forced to relive the events of the series over and over)

This is not an ability of Bill Cipher but Axolotl. None of the scans proves Bill has the ability to resurrect:

In the video scan, Bill said that he may come back through Axolotl. In this poetic statement of the second scan:

If he wants to shirk the blame -- He'll have to invoke my name -- One way to absolve his crime -- A different form, a different life.

Nothing in that poem statement says Bill can revive himself. Even in the description, it says it's not combat-applicable, this is redundant to be listed and should be removed.

Selective Time Stop (Stopped time upon first appearing[1])

The candle fires and the clouds in the skies were still moving in the scene; we didn't even see the dragonfly and the frog completely stopping in the time frame but rather moving in slow motion, therefore time wasn't stopped. Oh, and you can also see a deer moving in this scene of the same video.

Acausality (Types 1 and 4. It was revealed that after the events of Gravity Falls Bill is trapped in a cosmic punishment where he's forced to relive the events of the series again and again. Bill lived in and made Nightmare Realm his new home[4] which is not only described as a place that lacks laws[4] such as physics[4] or causality,[6] but also implied to be outside time[3] due to it being a dimension between dimensions, each being a different space-time that follows its own rules[4])

I don't get where both types of Acausalities are coming from. Lack of physics, laws and causality, with the Nightmare Realm being outside of time is rather talking about the dimension, not Bill himself. Type 4 acausality defines the character itself operating on a different level of causality system, and Bill doesn't apply for it judging by the description.

For the scan that says "outside time", it asserted "HUMANS ARE FAT WET BAGS OF MEAT WITHERING UNDER THE OPPRESSIVE TYRANNY OF TIME AND PUPPETEERED BY THE ARBITRARY WHIMS OF NATURAL SELECTION!". This scan is too vague to straight-up deduce that Bill or the Nightmare Realm is outside of time. Especially when Bill also said, "PUPPETEERED BY THE ARBITRARY WHIMS OF NATURAL SELECTION!"; the passage sounds like Bill is rather insinuating that humans age and die throughout time, or in other words, time makes humans age and die since humans aren't immortal. Also, Bill is trapped in a time loop as a piece of evidence itself doesn't give support to him being acasual.

Nonetheless, other than the Nightmare Realm being outside of time, nothing in the description gives Bill himself types 1 and 4 acausality.

Non-Physical Interaction (Showcased to interact with other Mindscape beings multiple times.[1][5] Claimed to have tasted the concept of life. which he adds that it tastes like "Uracil Cytocine and Thymine",[3] although if this is meant to be taken literally is debatable)

The description said the "concept of life", but in the scan, Bill said in an entirely separate line from the previous paragraph: "BY THE WAY LIFE TASTES LIKE URACIL CYTOCINE AND THYMINE!! ITS DISGUSTING!!". Bill did not say "meaning of life" or "concept of life" but rather explicitly said "life" itself. Also, uracil, cytocine and thymine are 3 of the five nucleotide bases of genetic code; I think it's quite obvious that Bill was eating DNA and RNA molecules rather than an entire concept. Not to mention Bill also said "you can't scoop a noun out of a pile" at the beginning of his Reddit comment, which directly contradicts the notion that he can interact with abstract concepts.

Resistance to Quantum Manipulation (Bill is existing in a state of quantum uncertainty, thus making manipulations of quantum particles ineffective against him[3])

Quantum uncertainty refers to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, which states a particle's certain pair of properties cannot be precisely or simultaneously known. This can rather and more likely mean that Bill's two properties (ex. position and momentum, energy and time, etc.) cannot be precisely comprehended and simultaneously known. With said, none of that proves he can resist manipulations or destruction of quantum particles; quantum uncertainty itself is still subject to quantum change.

Probability Manipulation (Created Mabeland,[2] where everything, even simple activities such as skipping stones, is perfect[11])

I'm struggling to comprehend how this is Probability Manipulation. Looks rather like a feat of his Law Manipulation, Physics Manipulation or Pocket Reality Manipulation instead. Nothing in the scan mentions or shows that probability was being changed, not to mention there were talking and moving trees. It's quite obvious that Mabel's pocket dimension does not follow conventional laws of physics.

Regeneration (Low-Godly, Lacked a Physical Form and easily created one for himself from his Mindscape Form,[2] it is stated that he would have been able to form himself in other ways if he wanted to[4])

The first scan leads to a video I cannot watch, but judging by the description, simply lacking a physical form and being able to create bodies does not qualify for Low-Godly regeneration; creating new bodies and transferring his consciousness into one of it should fall into his abilities of Creation and Type 6 Immortality. The second scan is rather body control or shapeshifting, as it's talking about how he can manipulate his form but not how he can regenerate from the utter destruction of his physical body.

Energy Projection, Energy Manipulation, and Durability Negation (Is able to send energy beams from his hands[2] strong enough to vaporize Time Baby[2])

I have no issue with the former two abilities, but I don't see where Durability Negation came from. Bill instantly one-shotted Time Baby with a laser beam, but Time Baby is a featless character who's shown absolutely nothing that matches or surpasses Bill's power. Therefore, nothing shows Durability Negation from the scans given that's embedded in the descriptions.

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Alright, I'm done. If there aren't any backed-up scans supporting or/and further explanations of the abilities I've listed and addressed, then all of these should be removed.

 

[GarrixianXD]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Qawsedf234 @Maverick_Zero_X @LephyrTheRevanchist @Planck69 @Phoenks @ShionAH

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

The first scan leads to a video I cannot watch, but judging by the description, simply lacking a physical form and being able to create bodies does not qualify for Low-Godly regeneration; creating new bodies and transferring his consciousness into one of it should fall into his abilities of Creation and Type 6 Immortality.

This is for his Physical Form key tho
Edit: Here's a link that works btw (The black Bill is his non-corporeal state)

 

[ThanatosX]

I will let other user commen on most of this stuff, but I will just point out a couple of things:

This is not an ability of Bill Cipher but Axolotl. None of the scans proves Bill has the ability to resurrect:

In the video scan, Bill said that he may come back through Axolotl. In this poetic statement of the second scan:

Nothing in that poem statement says Bill can revive himself. Even in the description, it says it's not combat-applicable, this is redundant to be listed and should be removed.

The Book of Bill is coming out in a few days, and will most likely explain some stuff about this, so this should probably be put on hold until then.

The first scan leads to a video I cannot watch, but judging by the description, simply lacking a physical form and being able to create bodies does not qualify for Low-Godly regeneration; creating new bodies and transferring his consciousness into one of it should fall into his abilities of Creation and Type 6 Immortality. The second scan is rather body control or shapeshifting, as it's talking about how he can manipulate his form but not how he can regenerate from the utter destruction of his physical body.

He does not create a body and transfer his mind into it, he creates his physical body on top and starting from his own mind (the dark siluette on top of which he create his body is his Mindscape form, which is his mind), and he is shown several time to be able to regenerate his own body rather than create a new one he transfer himself into. Nothing indicates that he can create several body that he than can transfer his mind into, which would be a bit too much of an assumption, but rather that he can create a body starting from his mind and that if his body is unusable for whatever reason he can create a new one, again, starting from his mind.

I have no issue with the former two abilities, but I don't see where Durability Negation came from. Bill instantly one-shotted Time Baby with a laser beam, but Time Baby is a featless character who's shown absolutely nothing that matches or surpasses Bill's power. Therefore, nothing shows Durability Negation from the scans given that's embedded in the descriptions.

A secret message from the Journal 3 explains that the Time Baby will take several decades to reconstitute his molecules (Blendin Letter part), which means that the blast affected him on a molecular level. I would say that this is more Matter Manipulation than Durability Negation, but whatever.

I am neutral for the rest, since I don't know more about the reasoning behind those abilities.

 

[ShionAH]

Nothing in that poem statement says Bill can revive himself. Even in the description, it says it's not combat-applicable, this is redundant to be listed and should be removed.

Why would it be redundant? Its literally an magic spell that allows Bill to come back to life due to the power of Axolotl. Its not combat applicable anyways, also book of Bill will explain it

The candle fires and the clouds in the skies were still moving in the scene; we didn't even see the dragonfly and the frog completely stopping in the time frame but rather moving in slow motion, therefore time wasn't stopped. Oh, and you can also see a deer moving in this scene of the same video.

Thats why its limited, Bill barely controls time while he is the mindscape

Nonetheless, other than the Nightmare Realm being outside of time, nothing in the description gives Bill himself types 1 and 4 acausality.

We have Bill seeing Nightmare Realm as his home, whic literally lacks causality. It is also stated that Bills plan was to free the universe from all of its laws including causality, it also showed that Bill and his gang was still capable of doing well anything after causality was completely erased and rewritten by him

Bill did not say "meaning of life" or "concept of life" but rather explicitly said "life" itself. Also, uracil, cytocine and thymine are 3 of the five nucleotide bases of genetic code; I think it's quite obvious that Bill was eating DNA and RNA molecules rather than an entire concept.

Well even though that makes more sense, we have no actual evidence. We all know Bill ate “life” itself, he did not mean anything else. He took a bite out of Life.

Quantum uncertainty refers to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, which states a particle's certain pair of properties cannot be precisely or simultaneously known. This can rather and more likely mean that Bill's two properties (ex. position and momentum, energy and time, etc.) cannot be precisely comprehended and simultaneously known. With said, none of that proves he can resist manipulations or destruction of quantum particles; quantum uncertainty itself is still subject to quantum change.

Agree

Nothing in the scan mentions or shows that probability was being changed, not to mention there were talking and moving trees. It's quite obvious that Mabel's pocket dimension does not follow conventional laws of physics.

Bill made it so the probability of stone skipping was perfect, Dipper was literally incapable of failing. What more do you want lol

The first scan leads to a video I cannot watch, but judging by the description, simply lacking a physical form and being able to create bodies does not qualify for Low-Godly regeneration; creating new bodies and transferring his consciousness into one of it should fall into his abilities of Creation and Type 6 Immortality. The second scan is rather body control or shapeshifting, as it's talking about how he can manipulate his form but not how he can regenerate from the utter destruction of his physical body.

Wait what?? Bill literally shows he can create a physical body from nothing when the rift is broken and he is unbound. How is creating a body from NOTHING not give Low-Godly?

I have no issue with the former two abilities, but I don't see where Durability Negation came from. Bill instantly one-shotted Time Baby with a laser beam, but Time Baby is a featless character who's shown absolutely nothing that matches or surpasses Bill's power. Therefore, nothing shows Durability Negation from the scans given that's embedded in the descriptions.

I think its due to Bill affecting basically nearly the entirety of Time Babys atomic structure

 

[ShionAH]

I will make a post explaining the Acasaulity when I am free

 

[Woomica]

A secret message from the Journal 3 explains that the Time Baby will take several decades to reconstitute his molecules (Blendin Letter part), which means that the blast affected him on a molecular level. I would say that this is more Matter Manipulation than Durability Negation, but whatever.

Thats deconstruction iirc

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Probably a bit early to disagree with the CRT, but the comments above pretty much said my thoughts exactly. Disagreeing with the CRT so far.

Edit: Although I do think we should just replace the Resurrection with type 8 Immortality. I suggested that when I originally brought up the whole cosmic punishment thing in the CRT it came from, not sure why that didn't go through. I think that better suits it, especially since we've given type 8 Immortality to characters that are basically stuck in a time loop.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Neutral for now, wish to hear both sides more first.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I will let other user commen on most of this stuff, but I will just point out a couple of things:


The Book of Bill is coming out in a few days, and will most likely explain some stuff about this, so this should probably be put on hold until then.


He does not create a body and transfer his mind into it, he creates his physical body on top and starting from his own mind (the dark siluette on top of which he create his body is his Mindscape form, which is his mind), and he is shown several time to be able to regenerate his own body rather than create a new one he transfer himself into. Nothing indicates that he can create several body that he than can transfer his mind into, which would be a bit too much of an assumption, but rather that he can create a body starting from his mind and that if his body is unusable for whatever reason he can create a new one, again, starting from his mind.

First scan is Creation; you can say he created a body out of nothingness, but that’s quite a vague assumption saying he can also regenerate from nothingness once the body is destroyed. Simply because Bill is shown capable of regenerating, it doesn’t mean it’s directly Low-Godly regeneration. Perhaps Low-Godly can be viable if those scenes were close together, however, considering how those scenes are like few episodes far from each other, it’s quite hard to make the ability valid.

A secret message from the Journal 3 explains that the Time Baby will take several decades to reconstitute his molecules (Blendin Letter part), which means that the blast affected him on a molecular level. I would say that this is more Matter Manipulation than Durability Negation, but whatever.

If it’s Durability Negation from Molecular Manipulation then I’ll cross this out then.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Why would it be redundant? Its literally an magic spell that allows Bill to come back to life due to the power of Axolotl. Its not combat applicable anyways, also book of Bill will explain it

Bill doesn't have Axolotl magic spell as his notable attacks or techniques. And then again, those two characters aren't seen to be very well close together at all. This is like giving Goku 5-D Existence Erasure via Summoning Zeno with Zeno Button.

Thats why its limited, Bill barely controls time while he is the mindscape

I'll be honest, I don't think it's even limited since you don't see anything stopping at all. It should be "Selective [[Time Slow]]" instead.

We have Bill seeing Nightmare Realm as his home, whic literally lacks causality. It is also stated that Bills plan was to free the universe from all of its laws including causality, it also showed that Bill and his gang was still capable of doing well anything after causality was completely erased and rewritten by him

Bill planning to free the universe of its laws and causality falls into his hax abilities. I don't recall existing in a realm where physics, laws and causality are lacking makes the character automatically resistant to those abilities and acasual.

Well even though that makes more sense, we have no actual evidence. We all know Bill ate “life” itself, he did not mean anything else. He took a bite out of Life.

Exactly. No evidence of Bill eating "the meaning of life", or I should say "the concept of life".

Bill made it so the probability of stone skipping was perfect, Dipper was literally incapable of failing. What more do you want lol

Judging by the timeframe of the video, Bill could’ve manipulated the properties of Mabel’s pocket dimension so everything can be perfect. Also, recalling back to the episode I watched back in 2013, there's also this scene where it says Mabeland is absolute perfection. It makes more sense that it's rather a property of the pocket dimension, other than warping possibility to make the realm "perfect".

Wait what?? Bill literally shows he can create a physical body from nothing when the rift is broken and he is unbound. How is creating a body from NOTHING not give Low-Godly?

As said again, it’s Creation. Low-Godly regeneration requires the existing body to be able to regenerate from utter physical destruction. We humans, were pretty much born from a single sperm cell; that does not mean, we can regenerate from a single sperm cell.

I think its due to Bill affecting basically nearly the entirety of Time Babys atomic structure

Thanatos told me, I recede with Bill keeping his durability negation. Though, I think the description can be changed a little bit saying he can destroy Time Baby’s atomic structure and negate his regeneration.

 

[Fyodol_Empyrean]

Op's argument sounds convincing atm.

Agree

 

[ThanatosX]

First scan is Creation; you can say he created a body out of nothingness, but that’s quite a vague assumption saying he can also regenerate from nothingness once the body is destroyed. Simply because Bill is shown capable of regenerating, it doesn’t mean it’s directly Low-Godly regeneration. Perhaps Low-Godly can be viable if those scenes were close together, however, considering how those scenes are like few episodes far from each other, it’s quite hard to make the ability valid.

By this logic every regeneration that starts from non-physical aspects of a being is creation. Every regeneration from Low-Godly upwards can be labelled as "Creation" for creating a body out of nothingness, but it's incorrect given that this "Creation" starts of from a part of the body of the user. In this case, we specifically see the muscle generating from the mind, and there is no evidence of him being able to create multiple body. To claim this is creation would be to claim that he is able to create several body of himself, something that he is not able to do given that he create and regenerate his body starting from his mind.
Also, both scenes I have linked are in the same episode (Weirdmageddon Part 1, the first part of the finale of the series) and happens minutes from each other, I don't know why you assumed that they happen several episodes from each others.

 

[GarrixianXD]

By this logic every regeneration that starts from non-physical aspects of a being is creation. Every regeneration from Low-Godly upwards can be labelled as "Creation" for creating a body out of nothingness, but it's incorrect given that this "Creation" starts of from a part of the body of the user. In this case, we specifically see the muscle generating from the mind, and there is no evidence of him being able to create multiple body. To claim this is creation would be to claim that he is able to create several body of himself, something that he is not able to do given that he create and regenerate his body starting from his mind.

Hmm... I mean, isn't the Hat pretty much a part of his body? I don't directly see that he can regenerate from his mind which will make his Low-Godly more solid, unless you can provide additional scans. Sure, you can say he created his body out of pure nothingness but it doesn't necessarily correlate to regeneration, or you're arguing that he technically has Low-Godly Regeneration through Creation. I find the latter premise to make more sense; if you meant that, I suppose it can be crossed out but I think it should rather be changed to Regeneration (Low-Godly) via Creation or something like that. However, it won't be passive Regeneration since Bill has to Heal himself with his Creation ability.

Also, both scenes I have linked are in the same episode (Weirdmageddon part 1, the first part of the finale of the series) and happens minutes from each other, I don't know why you assumed that they happen several episodes from each others.

Oh. My mistake then. Haven't watched the series in quite a while.

 

[ThanatosX]

Hmm... I mean, isn't the Hat pretty much a part of his body? I don't directly see that he can regenerate from his mind which will make his Low-Godly more solid, unless you can provide additional scans. Sure, you can say he created his body out of pure nothingness but it doesn't necessarily correlate to regeneration.

Yes, the hat is part of his body given that both when he creates a body we see that he is creating the hat as part of himself and when it's pierced we see bones and muscles, plus I am pretty sure there was a image that explained how his physical body is, but I would need to search for it.
If he already created a body starting from non-physical aspects of his being and he is directly shown to regenerate said body several times, there is no reason to assume that he wouldn't be able to regenerate his whole body if it's once again reduced to non-physicsl aspects of his being, aka how he was when he generated a body for himself. It is not something that he is able to do once and never again, once he enter the physical realm he can do that whenever he wants to. If that was Creation, evidence of him being able to create multiple body instead of just one would be required, otherwise it would be an assumption to say that he can create bodies out of think air rather than starting from his mind, which is what is shown when he creates a body for himself, with muscles coming out of his mind form.
But I said my part, so now I will let the staff members decide.

 

[ShionAH]

Bill doesn't have Axolotl magic spell as his notable attacks or techniques. And then again, those two characters aren't seen to be very well close together at all. This is like giving Goku 5-D Existence Erasure via Summoning Zeno with Zeno Button.

Difference here is that Goku has to summon Zeno and then Zeno has to use EE, while Bill can just say the prayers and survive death. I have no idea whats the problem here is, we see Bill use it to save himself

I'll be honest, I don't think it's even limited since you don't see anything stopping at all. It should be "Selective [[Time Slow]]" instead.

Works for me

Bill planning to free the universe of its laws and causality falls into his hax abilities. I don't recall existing in a realm where physics, laws and causality are lacking makes the character automatically resistant to those abilities and acasual.

He is said to be connected to the Nightmare Realm to the point where he harvests its power and is literally the being keeping it stable in Weirdmageddon, it is also said Bill is literally confused on causality of humans and stated he was gonna rewrite all of it

Exactly. No evidence of Bill eating "the meaning of life", or I should say "the concept of life".

Not to mention that Bill describes all concepts as having one:

"Your QUESTION IS FLAWED, JACK! You can't just scoop a noun out of a pile and ask what it's "meaning" is. Meaning is determined by conscious judgement, not inherently built into the universe. What if you asked "what is the meaning of yellow?" or "what is the meaning of butterscotch?" YOU'D GET THROWN OUT OF THE DINNER PARTY BUSTER! These chestnuts are as meaningless as your dusty old "meaning of life" foofarah. You can ask life's purpose, definition, function, even it's taste- but you can't ask for it's "meaning"

BY THE WAY LIFE TASTES LIKE URACIL CYTOCINE AND THYMINE!! ITS DISGUSTING!!"

So he literally means the taste of life.

Judging by the timeframe of the video, Bill could’ve manipulated the properties of Mabel’s pocket dimension so everything can be perfect. Also, recalling back to the episode I watched back in 2013, there's also this scene where it says Mabeland is absolute perfection. It makes more sense that it's rather a property of the pocket dimension, other than warping possibility to make the realm "perfect".

What is this argument? Bill made Mabelland where everything including luck activies such as skipping stones were so perfect that Dipper was incapable of failing, thats textbook Probability Hax.

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About the Acasuality 4
​

Bill is connected to the Nightmare Realm very deeply to the point where he is able to absorb its powers and empower himself while also being shown to be the entity that sustains the Dimensional Rift and the Nightmare Realm at the same time.

Nightmare Realm itself is outside of time, laws, space, causality. It is the dimension between dimension that has nothing to keep it stable, its just pure chaos and randomness. Bill is able to freely manipulate and use this realm, he is also seemingly not affected by its chaotic nature even though it literally lacks causality. Being able to control and not be affected in a place with no causality already means you have Acasuality.

Bill also stated he was above and beyond time itself on reddit.

A small note: Ford would not have any Acasuality since he was deeply affected by the chaotic nature of it and the lack of laws

 

[Eseseso]

Not sure about Acausality, rest looks good.

 

[ShionAH]

I just sent the evidence for CM…

 

[IsleRootsSaga]

Acausality type 4 should go yeah.

 

[Jinsye]

First scan is Creation; you can say he created a body out of nothingness, but that’s quite a vague assumption saying he can also regenerate from nothingness once the body is destroyed. Simply because Bill is shown capable of regenerating, it doesn’t mean it’s directly Low-Godly regeneration. Perhaps Low-Godly can be viable if those scenes were close together, however, considering how those scenes are like few episodes far from each other, it’s quite hard to make the ability valid.

Low-Godly and being able to create a body from nothingness are functionally the same thing. There's no distinction at all.

If you destroy his physical body, and he makes a new one, that counts as Low-Godly because he can just make a new body. Godly regen is just weird like that.

 

[IsleRootsSaga]

Low-Godly and being able to create a body from nothingness are functionally the same thing. There's no distinction at all.

Regeneration means to regenerate your original body.

If you destroy his physical body, and he makes a new one, that counts as Low-Godly because he can just make a new body. Godly regen is just weird like that.

If the original body didn’t regenerate then no.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Regeneration means to regenerate your original body.

If the original body didn’t regenerate then no.

Low-Godly means there's no original body left tho
You kinda have to regen from nothing