Isekai at Peace LN Tier Discussion

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Now that it's been decided to split the LN and WN, we need to actually figure out what the ratings of the LN characters are gonna be, WN is easy just revert the profiles to March 17, which is when i made the first LN additions, and then re-add the Afterstories stuff that was accepted after that date.

Just basically gonna present all the notable feats for the LN, so we can decide what to rate the characters as,

God Tiers​

Ap​

Tier 2 or Tier 1​

World Creators as their namesake can create worlds. Shiro for example created a "world", which is similar to the world Kaito came from, it has a moon, sun, starry skies

Perhaps, because I have spent quite a few intense days in this world, I feel as if I have been living in this world for years already. And just as I was getting used to this world, I still find some things that seemed strange to me. For example, some things have different names from those in our world, such as our world’s apples being called ripples, while others have the same name, such as oranges. If that was all there is to it, I would have attributed it as some kind of influence those who used to play the role of Hero had in this world… but other than that, this world also has the sun, the moon, and the stars. A world that should be different from ours, yet somehow familiar… Is there a reason for this?

Having such thoughts in mind, I closed the diary I was writing and looked out the window. The moon floating in the starry skies that can be described as unknown, somehow feels rather unfathomable…

(There is no great reason for it. If I had to describe one, I would say that the God of Kaito-san’s world and I are old acquaintances, and she gave me a lot of advice when I created this world, so there are some similarities between our worlds.)

——is what I was thinking, but the God who created this world personally told me the reason. S- So that’s how it is… Then, does that have something to do with the fact that people can go back and forth between worlds through the Hero Summoning and abilities like that?-Volume 8, Prologue

Eden creates a world from the infinite white space she was in and blows it up with Alice at the center

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

Eden is also stated to be the one who has control over the white space

-Volume 10, Chapter 3


Alice and Eden would have already ended several worlds if not for the white space, which was already established to be infinite

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

Eden is stated to exist on another plane of existence

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

Shiro perceives a 2-D game world and the 3-D real world as being no different

[After you get along and fall in love in another world, you get a weapon from your partner!? Not like an accessory or something like that?]

[Yes, it seems like monsters appear in the 2-D world, so it might have been a pretty harsh place to live in.]

[I- Is that so… So there are also monsters in the other world.]

At this point, if someone from another world had heard them, there would have been lots of points that they had tsukkomi’d about. First of all, she had only read all the things related to the word “love” from that person’s mind, and yet, there’s a fatal flaw from the information given by Shallow Vernal, someone who looks at everything equally.

That’s right, she only perceives the 2-D game world and the real 3-D world as the same, and since she has only extracted the necessary information, without caring about the quality of each information, depending on who hears it, they may only get a severely one-sided information from her.-Volume 2, Intermission

Shiro also perceives all her creations as being the same, from the plants to the very world itself

[Yes. Errr, if Shiro-san is omniscient and omnipotent, a being that doesn’t have any openings for anyone to take advantage of, I may have been afraid of you. However, Shiro-san may be omnipotent, but you’re not omniscient, right?]

[Yes.]

[That’s why, I guess I’m just thinking about your power as something that makes you Shiro-san? I think I’m not afraid because I can feel that it’s just part of your personality.]

[…………]

Actually, I don’t really know the details why either. I think I was scared when I first met her, but now, I’m just thinking of Shiro-san as an airheaded cheat… and a very attractive woman. At the very least, I don’t feel scared, I’m sure I still wouldn’t feel scared in the future.

At my words, Shiro-san stayed silent for a few moments before she spoke again.

[…Indeed, I am not omniscient. On the contrary, I don’t even know myself.]

[…Eh?]

[I can’t see any difference between the living beings, the plants, or the earth… the world I have created. All of them seem to have the same value in my eyes… Am I coldhearted? Do I not… love this world?]-Volume 5, Chapter 4

The WN had the added context of Fate and thus Shiro transcending space-time and being a rank above her creations etc.

Is this still enough to make World Creators 5-D right now, or just 4-D until the LN gets to the final arc with those other statements? That needs to be discussed.

Speed​

MFTL+, Infinite or Immeasurable?

First of all, they are definitely At least MFTL+, Eden teleports what is clearly a 100 million light years away, and Alice shows up in seconds, their battle was described as one that not even light can keep up with

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

From this position which is already a 100 million light years from where she was originally Eden then proceeds to move so far away into this infinite space, that not even numbers can describe it anymore, and Alice then follows her in seconds

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

Either this is very far into MFTL+, or just straight up Infinite, that needs to be discussed. But there is more, Alice and Eden are fighting in compressed time, such that not even a second has passed since they began their battle, and also while clashing with each other they can alter the past so that all their previous attacks become established to hit each other

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

I personally think Immeasurable is probably a long shot, this is probably just causality manipulation, however its something to be discussed, how fast exactly are the God tiers.

Top Tiers​

Ap​

I already have a blog explaining Trinia, the fantasy world Kaito is summoned to, basically it's much larger than Earth. The 6 Kings in both the WN and LN can destroy it, however the LN has yet to show us Megiddo's mountain busting feat which comes out to Island level, and the subsequent multiplier for the 6 Kings, being a billon or trillion times above Megiddo.

So all we have are statements which say they can destroy the planet, and that they can do it in minutes

[…Incidentally, how strong is Funf-san?]

[She’s considerably strong. Even I would need 15 seconds to beat her.]

[Is Funf-san, being amazing for Alice to need 15 seconds against her, supposed to be a good explanation?]

[Yes, Funf-san is one of them gorilla fighters who stomp on everything on their path like a human bullet, possessing power and speed that were off the charts. She is capable of clearing an entire continent in a few minutes. Well, Alice-chan is still much stronger than her though!!!]

[Stop with that smug look on your face.]

I can’t even imagine how absurd it is that she could clear a continent in a few minutes… Does that mean that Alice, who’s even stronger than her, could destroy the world in a few minutes?

…I feel like she could really do that.

[Well, they’re just training, so Funf-san is holding back against her. Ahh, it looks like they’re swapping the offensive and defensive roles now.]-Volume 7, Chapter 5

Another thing is that actually the LN has yet to get to the world being much bigger, we know the Human Realm is bigger than Europe and the Demon Realm is twice that, and we know oceans exist. So i guess for the LN until we get more statements, the world itself would just be Earth sized? And if so it's not gonna be as impressive to destroy it, however what tier exactly should we give for destroying an Earth sized planet in minutes?

Speed​

The top tiers such as the 6 Kings are far faster than mid tiers like Lilia and Sieglinde, who are near light speed, but we don't really have anything definitive for now, the LN will eventually get to WN content which makes them FTL+, but for now they should be At least Relativistic. The exceptions to this are Ein and Chronois, they can accelerate time to boost their speed at least by 3x, and Chronois is directly said to be the fastest God, plus we have this:

(Kuhh, why! How can this fellow move through my halted time!?)

It’s not strange that there are Demons who can use magic that could manipulate time… Space-Time Magic. Among the High-ranking Demons, there are indeed some capable of stopping time. However, the power of time Chronois wields isn’t magic, but a God’s Authority granted to her by Shallow Vernal, a power that is far higher than Space-Time Magic. It isn’t possible for anyone to use Space-Time Magic to resist the authority Chronois wields.

(No way, that isn’t possible… No, but that would be the only reason I can think of. I don’t know the reason why, but she just doesn’t have the power to oppose my authority… This fellow…”She’s a being who’s been given the Authority of Time by Shallow Vernal-sama”…)

Chronois and Ein’s fists clashed at a speed that let alone sound, not even light can keep up with. Ironically, their power as well as their ability is quite even, and it’s not so easy to settle the matter.-Volume 6, Chapter 2

So Chronois and Ein would be FTL with time acceleration.

Mid Tiers​

Ap​

Count levels are stated to be able to wipe out a city

-Volume 4, Chapter 4

However as the LN isn't caught up to the WN content, we don't have the additional feat of Count levels being able to shatter mountains. So do we just ignore this statement as being vague/hyperbole, even though the LN follows the same content and adds even more, we know that other feats will be shown eventually. Or do we just acknowledge this city wiping statement with a possibly or likely?

Excluding this they would just be At least Wall level via being above people who can kill Black Bears which can destroy walls, and are tougher than steel. So do we go with At least Wall level, likely City level, or just City level?

Speed​

They will be Relativistic due to Lilia and Sieglinde's near light speed feats

 

[Noneless21]

I think the possible L1-C is fine? Since all authorities (which is concept) and laws are created from Shiro's own authorities after all

Now here me out here, it may seems to be a stretch, but... world creator resist causality manip, and Alice wouldn't affect Eden that way if it's causality manip, but Eden did get some substansial damage when the fight is over, so I think there's a possibility that it is immeasurable rather than causality manip

 

[Bummel]

I didnt really familiar about reverting back profile
But some character have after stories addition along side LN, So if we revert it back we just add that again manualy right?

For AP i think 5D will be fine with the current feats
fate transcendent feats will be supporting that claim even higher

For speed i think alice with her ability can make her more fast(from MFTL+ because ttraveling million light years in a sec to traveling infinite distance in a sec)
So FTL base MFTL+ to infinite with hekantonkheires/ultimate battle form for alice
Neutral on immeasurable

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Noneless21 Immeasurable speed is physical movement across time though, they aren't exactly moving there, but i could be wrong i am no expert on the topic.

@Bummel Pretty much, if we go through everything looking for LN additions that's gonna take time, so we just revert back to an earlier version, and then re-add the Afterstories stuff.

FTL base Alice with what evidence though? If you are using her fight in the past with Ein, Alice is stupidly smart to where she has precog, not to mention being stupidly skilled, she anticipated Ein and the others attacks, a 3x difference isn't that much to say Ein would speed blitz Alice.

Speaking of Hekatonkheires, Eden initially wasn't taking things serious, and then she did, at which point Alice got even stronger. Before that Alice tanked a world being blow up in her face so it would be like Low 2-C to Low 1-C or something like that.

 

[Noneless21]

i meant like the alter the past thingy should qualify as immeasurable speed rating since if it's causality manip, then never mind Eden, even Alice wouldn't feel a thing since she also become a world creator with all of the resistance it shows, that's my logic

 

[Bummel]

@Noneless21 Immeasurable speed is physical movement across time though, they aren't exactly moving there, but i could be wrong i am no expert on the topic.

@Bummel Pretty much, if we go through everything looking for LN additions that's gonna take time, so we just revert back to an earlier version, and then re-add the Afterstories stuff.

FTL base Alice with what evidence though? If you are using her fight in the past with Ein, Alice is stupidly smart to where she has precog, not to mention being stupidly skilled, she anticipated Ein and the others attacks, a 3x difference isn't that much to say Ein would speed blitz Alice.

Speaking of Hekatonkheires, Eden initially wasn't taking things serious, and then she did, at which point Alice got even stronger. Before that Alice tanked a world being blow up in her face so it would be like Low 2-C to Low 1-C or something like that.

Alright alice speed start with relativistic then

Atleast Low-2C durability alice

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

destroying the planet in minutes sound like a High 6A or High 6B feat

disagree on tier 1. Viewing 3D as a game is just 4D

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

She also perceives all her creations as being the same, including the "world" she created.

If world=universe, she would be perceiving space-time as no different than a pebble, that would be the argument for 1 one i guess. She can indeed perceive her whole world, past, present and future.

Unlike the WN we don't yet have all the elaborations about transcending space-time, looking down on the entire universe, existence being higher than her creations etc etc.

We just know the world Shiro created is similar to what we know, having a sun, moon and starry sky cause it was model after our "world", which was made by Eden.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

MFTL+ to Infinite seems fine for me. not sure about immeasurable speed.

 

[Everything12]

So far, if it wasn't for the statements of Shallow Vernal, this seems like it wouldn't even be Tier 2, as this is no mention of time creation. I can accept a likely Low 2-C rating based off the seeing the world as 2D mention. Though both that and the mentions of seeing the world could be a metaphor to show how emotionally disconnected she is from everything and not her power.

Is their any quote of her and Eden being equal in strength? Because what I'm currently seeing above is at best Tier 3 for her, as you haven't actually provided the evidence to prove their equal.

Speedwise, I'd say that is MFTL+. Not enough evidence for Infinite, and that past altering is more likely an ability then speed.

I can't judge the world destruction in minutes feats, as I'm not sure how the minutes aspect factors in.

Ein and Chronois being FTL seems reasonable enough.

I'd go for the At Least Wall Level option myself, but eithers fine by me.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Kuro fought Eden, they are almost equal, note she fought Eden in her former True Form, which looks like Shiro, because the 2 are literally 2 halfs of one whole.

-Volume 9, Chapter 4

Shiro seeing the world as 2-D/all equal is literal, but i honestly wouldn't argue with the argument that that is just how detached emotionally she is, as the LN hasn't yet gotten to all the evidence.

Overall i don't really mind whatever is decided here cause it's ultimately temporary, the LN and WN cover the same content, the LN is just more powerful at comparable points in time, for example in the WN at this point i still had Shiro and Eden as just planet creators, when clearly the LN shows they are much more earlier.

 

[Noneless21]

i mean both Eden and Shiro made an universe with their own flow of time so it should be 4D construct right?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean yea, but people can be strict about that stuff, saying they merely made the matter or something.

Though really the default assumption for universe creation was that it would include space-time, and that destruction is where the extra evidence is needed, but i don't know if standards changed.

That said, World Creators have already been shown to create "worlds" with different time streams

Kuro creates a world where she and Shiro can fight

Unlike the Supreme Gods, who were having a tense battle, the battle between Kuromueina and Shallow Vernal was one-sided. Within the jet-black space created by Kuromueina, Shallow Vernal received fist after fit swung down one after another, and was blown away like the leaf of a tree, dancing in a storm, but there was still no change in her expression.

The damage certainly seems like it was being dealt, but Shallow Vernal didn’t resist, and was simply being beaten by Kuromueina.

[…I don’t understand. Why don’t you just use “that magic”? You would have already finished this if you use that, right?]

Hearing the words Shallow Vernal told her without any inflection in her tone, Kuromueina changes into her true form… which had the same appearance as Shallow Vernal’s, her most powerful form.-Volume 6, Chapter 2

This world has a different timestream

[…Shiro?]

[Yes, you’re Shallow Vernal after all, so Shiro! Ah, you can also call me Kuro.]

[Kuro, Shiro… Aren’t those shortened names quite simple?]

[Shaddup!]

They exchange words so calmly that it’s hard to believe that they were beating each other up just a moment ago,and then, both of them get up without a second thought. Kuro’s appearance changes to the appearance of a young girl, and in response, the jet-black space disappears and the lands of the God Realm reappears.

They should have been fighting for quite a long time, but the jet-black space flows in a different stream of time, so they almost went back to the God Realm right after Shallow Vernal was punched away. And also, whether it’s the Divine Gate , the wounded Gods or the lands of the God Realm… Along with the Demon invaders, everything went back to how it was before through Shallow Vernal’s power.-Volume 6, Chapter 2

Side note just thought of this but Eden was stated to be the one who controls the white space, and it's stated to be infinite in size, has no end etc. It was said that Alice and Eden's fight would have already destroyed several worlds if not for said white space. Just how big is this white space?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump.

Edit: Just adding some more stuff, with the worlds, Shiro and co create being universes, they also have the ability to destroy them with each of their strikes

Staring curiously at the fist she swung, Shallow Vernal slowly looked at Kuromueina. Seeing Shallow Vernal like that, Kuromueina smiles somewhat happily and holds up her fist.

[Then, let’s have a fight, shall we? If we do that, we may learn something.]

[…Let’s do that then… Let’s ascertain if what you said is right, whether I got my own heart and my own emotions.]

With those words, Kuromueina and Shallow Vernal’s fists clashed. The girls, who were originally one entity, nullifying each other’s abilities, so the fight becomes a pure fistfight. Shallow Vernal, swinging her fists with such power that each strike could even bring the end of the world, and yet, for her first time fighting… She’s somehow enjoying it.-Volume 6, Chapter 2

Not that surprising that they can destroy what they create.

Here is the stuff i mentioned before, Eden has control over the white space

-Volume 10, Chapter 3


Alice and Eden would have already ended several worlds if not for the white space

-Volume 10, Chapter 3

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump.

We haven't really touched much besides the God tiers scaling, the other stuff is simpler. Lets try and get that out the way first.

So far Immeasurable speed seems to be rejected, @Everything12 thinks its just MFTL+, and some people think it's Infinite.

AP is still kinda of being discussed, but Low 1-C is looking like its going to be rejected for the characters at this point in the story.

 

[Noneless21]

i think so, maybe we need more staff input for this speed rating

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

We need more staff in general for the God tier stuff, cause there is also Eden and Alice destroying several "worlds" and Eden being in control of a space which can contain those several "worlds" and is infinite in size.

Lets try the usual people i guess @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Infinite speed at least sounds blatant, and the moving so quick that one wrong move could alter the past, could be interpreted as characters being able to physically strike the past. So Immeasurable seem to be likely.

As for tiers, I'm not the best judge for Low 1-C and above, so I'll lean towards Low 2-C unless one of our Tier 1 experts can confirm that.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Interesting.

So that's like 1 staff for Infinite speed and 1 against.

I should update the op with the several worlds stuff, cause maybe that's 2-C or 2-A, need opinions there too.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump.

 

[Elizhaa]

I shared similar views with DarkDragonMedeus on the speed.
The tier looks to be Low 2-C; there is not enough solid context for Low 1-C yet, in my view. Shiro's statement as Option 2 and 4 and Eden's statement could support Low 1-C. There could be a case for Low 2-C, possibly Low 1-C.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alright so from what i can gather God tiers like Shiro and co would be:

Ap- Low 2-C, possibly Low 1-C

Speed- Infinite, likely Immeasurable

Is that right?

 

[Elizhaa]

It could be the case, yes.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Then i guess the only thing left is to discuss the top and mid tiers.

What exactly do we do for the 6 Kings destroying the world in minutes? In like the last thread involving the Peak Count Ranks destroying a continent in minutes i think we took like 3 minutes as a good timeframe, and that put them at like Low 6-B, when divided.

Guessing we do something similar with the 6 Kings.

As for mid tiers Everything said they were fine with At least Wall level or At least Wall level, possibly City level. Personally i like these possibly ratings, cause it acknowledges the evidence, just that there is not enough right now for a full rating, but obviously they will become full ratings later.

 

[Noneless21]

Eh, it's fine if the Six Kings scale from the continent destruction, but what about their speed?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

They scale above it though, and what they scale above is also a feat done in minutes, nobody yet has statements of oneshotting continents like the WN.

We already went over their speed, At least Relativistic via being unquantifiable above Count Ranks who are below light speed, with Ein and Chronois being FTL with time accel.

 

[Noneless21]

Ic...

Then give them possible High 6-A? Since they scale way above peak count rank, until there's further mention about the difference in power between peak count rank and the Six Kings

Ediy: the Six Kings also stated that they can destroy the world in minutes

 

[Elizhaa]

As for mid tiers Everything said they were fine with At least Wall level or At least Wall level, possibly City level. Personally i like these possibly ratings, cause it acknowledges the evidence, just that there is not enough right now for a full rating, but obviously they will become full ratings later.

The possible rating seems fine, so I think At least Wall level, possibly City level works.

What exactly do we do for the 6 Kings destroying the world in minutes? In like the last thread involving the Peak Count Ranks destroying a continent in minutes i think we took like 3 minutes as a good timeframe, and that put them at like Low 6-B, when divided.

Guessing we do something similar with the 6 Kings.

Going from the world statements, it seems like they could be 5-B.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well they can't be 5-B if they take minutes to destroy the world, it's not in one shot. Albeit this is Kaito's speculation that it would take them minutes, for all we know it's instant, when we get to the point in the LN where we get the billion or trillion statement like the WN, things will become clearer, but it's really not as defined right now.

If we lowball i guess we take the value for surface destruction and then divide by 180 seconds.

 

[Noneless21]

Well they can't be 5-B if they take minutes to destroy the world, it's not in one shot. Albeit this is Kaito's speculation that it would take them minutes, for all we know it's instant, when we get to the point in the LN where we get the billion or trillion statement like the WN, things will become clearer, but it's really not as defined right now.

If we lowball i guess we take the value for surface destruction and then divide by 180 seconds.

then it'll be about 330 Exatons which is moon level

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alright so surface wiping is 183.24 Petatons according to this, dividing this by the time frame of 180 seconds (3 minutes), would give 1 Petatons, which is Continent level.

Again same time we already use on the profiles for the Peak Count Ranks, so we could put the 6 Kings at At Continent level, until we get more evidence.

 

[Elizhaa]

Alright so surface wiping is 183.24 Petatons according to this, dividing this by the time frame of 180 seconds (3 minutes), would give 1 Petatons, which is Continent level.

Again same time we already use on the profiles for the Peak Count Ranks, so we could put the 6 Kings at At Continent level, until we get more evidence.

It seems doable.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alright, so i guess this is pretty much concluded then.

 

[Elizhaa]

It seems so.