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Is the Pokémon cosmology above baseline 2A

Dereck03 said:
There is nothing to scale in AP if not even the cosmology is above baseline because the AP to destroy everything will remain the same, I can understand that the AP of Arceus is higher than any other character in pokemon but not enough to give a concrete feat of how much Above baseline can be.
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Say Arceus AP is higher than any other 2-A characters in Pokemon
Not above baseline
Click to expand...

I think I may stop arguing with you because it seems like you don't even understand how AP even works
 
Literally every 2-A verse with more than one character scaling to it will most likely have a scaling chain, it works for all tiers, what you can't get with it is numbers.

Look at DBH, they are FILLED with scaling chains and stuff despite being 2-A.

Arceus is above baseline 2-A in AP, that's not an argument, the argument is if he is any number over it, either 2 or 3, what is confirmed is that he is stronger than 2-A's and thus above baseline via basic scaling, this has nothing to do with the cosmology at this point, is just being stronger.

Even then, he trancends everything do he scales above it anyway.
 
AP scaling chain is in every tier (except stuffs below 3D as i don't know about them), or you can't make sense why two characters, both of them is 2-A (or High 3-A) but one beat the shit out of the other
 
They wouldve been truly unstoppable, if not for the fact that tier 2A matches are won with hax
 
Tbf ap doesn't really matter at tier 2 as a whole, anyone with a decent regen (High and up) and some hax can tango with anyone in tier 2
 
theultimate5105 said:
The CRT did not use the new proof I was talking about (kinda hard when the proof wasn’t out until March of this year)
also Other verses have had above baseline accepted for the exact same reason in that CRT like DBH is currently above baseline 2-A range for the same reason
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I agree with you, but I also disagree with you.

You used range as evidence for higher AP, something that was strictly rejected in the linked thread.

Even then, forget the mathematical mumbo jumbo that count as the standards of the wiki for a second. Them being unable to travel to certain universes logically doesn't mean anything, since they are very clearly representative of different rules of reality. Dialga and Palkia can travel to their home dimensions quite fine despite their worlds being higher than the Distortion world cosmology wise in the anime, for example.

I don't know DBH, nor do I care to know about it since the anime promotion was a disappointment for the most part, but they are 2 different verses with two different factors involved. Even if what you say is true, two wrongs don't make a right.

Not only that, you also said:
theultimate5105 said:
It also follows other minor justifications which help get above baseline like different laws, concepts, casuality, matter, etc
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None of which affect AP. They're hax and special abilities related.

If I were to argue for 2* baseline for tier 2-A Pokemon, I would point out that you would need to destroy both cosmologies in one shot to do lasting damage, since they support each other like DNA chains.
Thelastmlg said:
I totally disagree with multiple multiverses not making stuff above baseline but oh well
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't blame you. Some are definitely given the right to question the way we do things here now, since it's very counterintuitive using math to describe the differences of the feats tier 2 and up.

I would of course, though, argue that this is no different than say, rejecting the notions of most black hole feats based on theoretical constructs of how we think black holes irl work or applying real world physics to fiction when doing calcs where the normal rules of reality obviously do not apply, not to mention our tiering system, even before the mathematical depictions of stuff, specifically used geometry as a basis for it, which is of course a mathematical construct.

What we do now is honestly not much different than what we've always done.

(Also, I don't think they meant multiple universes don't matter, just that outside of the cosmology it is impossible to compare, which you would need to do in a vs debate).
Vietthai96 said:
Cosmology in tier 2 is irrelevant now, since infinite x or + anything still infinite.
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Unless you specify tier 2-A, this is objectively wrong.
 
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It's cool.

I actually first typed that I understood what you were trying to say, but then for some reason deleted that and then went with the comment that made me most sound like a douche, so no apologies needed at all.
 
CosmicWreck said:
I agree with you, but I also disagree with you.

You used range as evidence for higher AP, something that was strictly rejected in the linked thread.

Even then, forget the mathematical mumbo jumbo that count as the standards of the wiki for a second. Them being unable to travel to certain universes logically doesn't mean anything, since they are very clearly representative of different rules of reality. Dialga and Palkia can travel to their home dimensions quite fine despite their worlds being higher than the Distortion world cosmology wise in the anime, for example.

I don't know DBH, nor do I care to know about it since the anime promotion was a disappointment for the most part, but they are 2 different verses with two different factors involved. Even if what you say is true, two wrongs don't make a right.

Not only that, you also said:

None of which affect AP. They're hax and special abilities related.

If I were to argue for 2* baseline for tier 2-A Pokemon, I would point out that you would need to destroy both cosmologies in one shot to do lasting damage, since they support each other like DNA chains.

Yeah, I don't blame you. Some are definitely given the right to question the way we do things here now, since it's very counterintuitive using math to describe the differences of the feats tier 2 and up.

I would of course, though, argue that this is no different than say, rejecting the notions of most black hole feats based on theoretical constructs of how we think black holes irl work or applying real world physics to fiction when doing calcs where the normal rules of reality obviously do not apply, not to mention our tiering system, even before the mathematical depictions of stuff, specifically used geometry as a basis for it, which is of course a mathematical construct.

What we do now is honestly not much different than what we've always done.

(Also, I don't think they meant multiple universes don't matter, just that outside of the cosmology it is impossible to compare, which you would need to do in a vs debate).

Unless you specify tier 2-A, this is objectively wrong.
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I am not even talking about AP
 
Actually it is not above baseline AP, because no matter how insane the scaling chain is, you still losing to baseline of DnD in term of AP because well.......its cosmology fit the new standard
 
It's still above baseline at least for the characters

Original One one shotting the verse and his 2A clones will be very high above baseline. At least for the characters within them

That's before the insane Stat amps/mimicry in pokemon.
 
That's fine

Will maou be above baseline 2A? Iirc no one has demonstrated a 2A layer destruction but if destroying a universe in one layer cannot destroy a ship in the deeper layers then that shows durability difference no?
 
Yemma670 said:
That's fine

Will maou be above baseline 2A? Iirc no one has demonstrated a 2A layer destruction but if destroying a universe in one layer cannot destroy a ship in the deeper layers then that shows durability difference no?
Click to expand...
I mean that is merely a universe (if it was a multiverse it might be a difference in AP)
 
Yemma670 said:
That's fine

Will maou be above baseline 2A? Iirc no one has demonstrated a 2A layer destruction but if destroying a universe in one layer cannot destroy a ship in the deeper layers then that shows durability difference no?
Click to expand...
No, it is just infinite x insert number, because the verse stated that destroy deeper layer is harder than shallow layer (sorry but i could get the name wrong). DnD fit the requirement because it said that in order to destroy 2 infinite multiverse, you need more power than the power to destroy 1 multiverse, then destroy 3 require more than 2.......
 
Vietthai96 said:
No, it is just infinite x insert number, because the verse stated that destroy deeper layer is harder than shallow layer (sorry but i could get the name wrong). DnD fit the requirement because it said that in order to destroy 2 infinite multiverse, you need more power than the power to destroy 1 multiverse, then destroy 3 require more than 2.......
Click to expand...
And thats above baseline...

If A is baseline 2-A and B oneshots him, B is above baseline 2-A. Sure, not 2x or 3x above baseline, but when you have a scaling chain of 99 oneshots, then I don't think that matters much at this point (it might be subjective, because we don't know at what point it would be greater than 2x or 3x, and so on, unless the scaling chain is infinite). Point is, MG is still above baseline considerably.
 
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Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
And thats above baseline...

If A is baseline 2-A and B oneshots him, B is above baseline 2-A. Sure, not 2x or 3x above baseline, but when you have a scaling chain of 99 oneshots, then I don't think that matters much at this point, it might enter subjective area, because we don't know at what point it would be greater than 2x or 3x, and so on, unless the scaling chain is infinite.

Point is, MG is still above baseline considerably.
Click to expand...
It is above baseline scaling chain, i already said that. The thing is we talking about the new standard to how qualify above baseline cosmology, DnD verse fit that new standard due to the verse stated that destroy more than one 2-A multiverse require more power, so they are the strongest in term of AP in 2-A
 
theultimate5105 said:
I mean that is merely a universe (if it was a multiverse it might be a difference in AP)
Click to expand...
It's an assumption at best but its highly possible destroying deeper layer will require more power.

Iirc deeper world inhabitants don't scale to the cosmology unfortunately , besides venuz and True Power Anos so eh.....
 
a question that's been in my mind for a while.

2 2a multiverses aren't above baseline range/ap cuz infinite * 2 = infinite. what about 4d infinite-sized universes then? the same logic can apply to them very well, no?

In a q&a thread I made, people said 4d infinite-sized universes aren't 2a cuz the space outside the universe is higher dimensional, why not take the same into consideration for 2a?
 
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