Is overcoming a Time Stop through speed a quantifiable speed feat?

[Cloozuma]

Son Gokū is more powerful than Vegeta and he doesn't have mind manipulation resistance. The mind manipulation thing wasn't a case of AP, but rather willpower

 

[Cloozuma]

Yeah sorry for the memes, let's get back to the topic.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Yeah sorry for the memes, let's get back to the topic.

As was stated by YuriAkuto, this topic has been touched upon multiple times, and has been concluded as resistance. Even through sheer speed, it can still be a form of resistance to time stop, just like how there are multiple ways to resist certain abilities

 

[Cloozuma]

As was stated by YuriAkuto, this topic has been touched upon multiple times, and has been concluded as resistance. Even through sheer speed, it can still be a form of resistance to time stop, just like how there are multiple ways to resist certain abilities

Yeah, there's too much confusion on how to resist TS via Sheer Speed. So anyway this should concluded back as a resistance then.

 

[Greenshifter]

@YuriAkuto Infinite Speed characters update | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom (archive.ph)

Quote by Sera EX: "The vast majority of examples have characters be resistant to time stop, usually based on power level. Unless the character is specified as ignoring the time stop via sheer speed, it’s time stop resistance by default."

I don't think you explicitly disagreed with this back then.

Edit: you probably did but then we had this discussion about limit infinities and zeroes and we basically came to the following compromise: "Given all these variables and fiction being fiction, what about <<If someone move in time stop, it's resistance unless a speed for moving in is given>>? Some works have characters moving in time stop for resistance, no reason, being another time manipulator, moving at FTL speeds, etc... So I think it would make more sense to not consider it as a speed feat in general, just when it's actually one (like how we don't give FTL or immeasurable speed to all time travelers). I think it's the best compromise, and it would avoid a lot of problems."

Infinite Speed characters update continuation thread | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom (archive.ph)

 

[Greenshifter]

Now granted you didn't really say it would grant infinite speed but there is enough room to argue it since it's case-by-case.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Given all these variables and fiction being fiction, what about <<If someone move in time stop, it's resistance unless a speed for moving in is given>>? Some works have characters moving in time stop for resistance, no reason, being another time manipulator, moving at FTL speeds, etc... So I think it would make more sense to not consider it as a speed feat in general, just when it's actually one (like how we don't give FTL or immeasurable speed to all time travelers). I think it's the best compromise, and it would avoid a lot of problems."

That's kinda what I said in my last comment yes.
Like if a verse flat out says "you need x speed to overcome this" then fine.

 

[Greenshifter]

K, so like if someone moves in a time stop via speed then it’s usually a quantifiable feat since you can deduce from the context of the verse what speed would be necessary to accomplish this. Thus answering the OP’s question.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Eh, guess you can say it that way.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

This discussion wouldn't be needed if inaccessible speed was just a thing on this wiki lmao

 

[Axxtentacle]

With this logic, not moving at all = moving

With this logic, non-existence = existence

 

[QuasiYuri]

Still wouldn't change the fact that it wouldn't give Infinite speed more than a timeless void.

If any of these cases is considered as needing Infinite speed in the verse, then you can get it through them. But not by default.

 

[Greenshifter]

Still wouldn't change the fact that it wouldn't give Infinite speed more than a timeless void.

If any of these cases is considered as needing Infinite speed in the verse, then you can get it through them. But not by default.

A timeless void has T as undefined. A time stop has T at 0 seconds (so not the same thing), potentially even limit 0 since there's as much validity to say an infinite speed character has limit infinity as to say he has actual infinity (and the distinction is probably pointless). The result of an infinite speed character moving in 0 time results in either 0 m/s, undefined m/s or infinite m/s, thus while their speed may be undefined within the time stop, they'd still need infinite speed to even have a chance to move inside the time stop without a resistance (Read: infinite speed doesn't necessarily make you move inside a time stop, but moving in a time stop via speed can potentially give you infinite speed). The other option is FTL (or 88 mph if it's just random stuff) due to time stopping at light speed due to relativity (I assume Yuri is referencing this) although this is quite uncommon and probably isn't applicable in verses where a lot of characters move FTL while still being affected by time stops.

 

[QuasiYuri]

A timeless void has T as undefined. A time stop has T at 0 seconds (so not the same thing), potentially even limit 0 since there's as much validity to say an infinite speed character has limit infinity as to say he has actual infinity (and the distinction is probably pointless). The result of an infinite speed character moving in 0 time results in either 0 m/s, undefined m/s or infinite m/s, thus while their speed may be undefined within the time stop, they'd still need infinite speed to even have a chance to move inside the time stop without a resistance (Read: infinite speed doesn't necessarily make you move inside a time stop, but moving in a time stop via speed can potentially give you infinite speed). The other option is FTL (or 88 mph if it's just random stuff) due to time stopping at light speed due to relativity (I assume Yuri is referencing this) although this is quite uncommon and probably isn't applicable in verses where a lot of characters move FTL while still being affected by time stops.

I'm not only referring to this. Like I remember a guy moving in Time Stop because his speed made his body hot.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Pretty much, it's a very case-by-case thing? Sounds about right.

 

[Greenshifter]

or 88 mph if it's just random stuff

Gotcha

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Bump

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Bump

This has already been answered, it's just resistance. In fiction there are a multitude of ways to resist a certain ability, and in some cases, the way to resist time stop is pure speed. If it's been stated that a character within a verse needs to be a certain speed to resist time stop, then that character will be rated at that speed along with time stop resistance

 

[ElixirBlue]

This has already been answered, it's just resistance.

Overcame Time Stop with pure Speed = Hax resistance

"I overcame Gravity Manipulation because of my strength, guess I have Gravity Resistance, no matter how strong my oppentent's Gravity Manipulation is in VS debating."

 

[ElixirBlue]

If it's been stated that a character within a verse needs to be a certain speed to resist time stop, then that character will be rated at that speed along with time stop resistance

Why does the speed in question needs to be define in-verse? Don't we use consistency to rate characters?

How often does a story state a number for speed to be needed to overcome Time Stop, which stops Time?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

What does the speed in question needs to be define in-verse? Don't we use consistency to rate characters?

How often does a story state a number for speed needs to overcome TIme Stop?

Yeah, consistency is needed as well

 

[ElixirBlue]

Yeah, consistency is needed as well

Of course. But what is Time Stop being consistent with, if we don't agree with the speed rating of going through Time Stop (with pure speed)?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Of course. But what is Time Stop being consistent with, if we don't agree with the speed rating of going through Time Stop (with pure speed)?

It's plot-induced stupidity

 

[QuasiYuri]

Overcame Time Stop with pure Speed = Hax resistance

"I overcame Gravity Manipulation because of my strength, guess I have Gravity Resistance, no matter how strong my oppentent's Gravity Manipulation is in VS debating."

A resistance isn't an immunity.