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Armorchompy

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
Calculation Group
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Allllright gentlemen, this is the match you and I have all been waiting for! Following his retirement from pro wrestling tournaments, the Pro Wrestling World Champion Iron Kiba has finally accepted the challenge of one, unknown opponent! There have been many talks on who Kiba could ever view as his equal: some believe it could be a MMA fighter, a boxer or kickboxer or the wielder of some unknown, mystical art! ... Or maybe, even another pro wrestler, such as himself!

Oh, but don't be fooled. This is no normal wrestling match. This is a vale tudo, full contact bout with no rules! Groin shots, eye pokes, low blows, anything goes, and the fight won't end until one of the contestants gives up, is tossed out of the ring, rendered unconscious, or dies! Not only that, but the ring they'll be fighting on is as hard as concrete - no bouncing away from a suplex, here!

On the blue side of the ring, at 190 cm of height and 110 kg of weight, The Pro Wrestling world champion from Japan, Iron Kiba! - 6

And stepping in on the red side... oh, oh no! It couldn't be, he's not human! How can Kiba hope to match such ferocity!? On the red side of the ring, standing at 180 cm of height and 86 kg of weight... The Demon King from Ireland... Finn Bálor! - 0

He may be lighter than Kiba, but that power is inhuman! The two are standing right in front of each other as even the referee quivers: the fight may have already begun, as they test one's willpower against the other's! Will the reigning champion prevail, or succumb to this occult menace? Or perhaps, something else altogether? - 0

It's no holds barred here, (Fully in-character), and quick wits won't stand up to (Speed Equalized), sheer might (Kiba - Upscales from 5268439.46595 Joules, downscales from 8062931.96529 Joules / The Demon - Upscales [i think] from 3486284.83209 Joules, difference is about 2x)! Who will prove superior?

Iron_kiba.png
Demon_finn_balor.png

 
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(I’m just gonna address ahead of time I will probably alternate between Finn/The Demon for this thread, The Demon is technically a separate entity but it has Finn’s body and up scales or scales to Finn in a lot of things like physicals and skill so I sometimes just end up saying Finn.)

One of the best OPs I’ve ever seen, did Finn/The Demon so much justice.

Anyways, both are obviously extremely skilled fighters, and have been world champions, though I do wanna note that The Demon is a former heavyweight world champion despite being a cruiserweight, just to give some perspective. The two obviously are more used to (semi) regulated wrestling, but have shown their fair share of supernatural manoeuvres over their histories. The Demon can’t particularly be killed by Kiba here. His immorality is easily enough overtaxed, by more hacker opponents, but I don’t think Kiba can do much more than extreme blunt force trauma, which is exactly what The Demon revived from in the first place. Kiba probably does hold a mild advantage in offensive hax though, The Demon doesn’t have an answer for paralysis and will struggle to put him down thanks to Supernatural Willpower, but light manipulation and teleportation still exist as good ways to disorientate Kiba, and everyone has their limit at some point. The Coup de Grâce has the potential to put him down after enough damage is racked up.

Honestly both of these two seem very difficult to actually put down. Kiba leads power (Though Finn does literally make his living fighting people stronger than him) and The Demon probably edges skill. I do think The Demon/Finn’s agile and fluid fighting style will work wonders for him here. Most WWE wrestlers have a flaw in their finishers in that they require specific setups or generally don’t have any real guaranteed way to secure them, while Finn has a group of well established, easily started combos to finish the fight when he needs it with better efficiency than most

I think this is pretty even, so I’ll definitely wait for more discussion before making any verdicts
 
One of the best OPs I’ve ever seen, did Finn/The Demon so much justice.
Glad to hear it, man.
The two obviously are more used to (semi) regulated wrestling, but have shown their fair share of supernatural manoeuvres over their histories.
Kiba has gone through a bunch of non-regulated fights, actually. In Tough there's two types of wrestling, the flashy, scripted type that's broadcast like IRL, and more underground, non-scripted and no-holds barred fights. Now Kiba is the champion of the former type but he grows sick of it and just wants to prove that he can be the ultimate fighter, period, so most of his on-screen fights are Vale Tudo.
The Demon can’t particularly be killed by Kiba here. His immorality is easily enough overtaxed, by more hacker opponents, but I don’t think Kiba can do much more than extreme blunt force trauma, which is exactly what The Demon revived from in the first place.
While Kiba has a sadistic streak (and in particular his Iron Driver or Screw-Neck Crusher could be used to break the Demon's neck, at which point if he feels like it he could inflict even more harm before he revives, such as breaking ligaments or bones on his limbs), he'd still rather not kill than kill after his character development, so I think he may just choke him out and render him unconscious instead. At the very least, he doesn't mind one way or the other, so if breaking his neck doesn't work, he can go for something a bit more practical.

Also while he obviously doesn't actually have supernatural Resurrection, he's insanely difficult to put down himself, he fought Kiibo for almost five hours despite suffering a bunch of wounds, by the end he just kept fighting while unconscious lmao.
Kiba probably does hold a mild advantage in offensive hax though, The Demon doesn’t have an answer for paralysis and will struggle to put him down thanks to Supernatural Willpower, but light manipulation and teleportation still exist as good ways to disorientate Kiba, and everyone has their limit at some point. The Coup de Grâce has the potential to put him down after enough damage is racked up.

Honestly both of these two seem very difficult to actually put down. Kiba leads power (Though Finn does literally make his living fighting people stronger than him) and The Demon probably edges skill.
I wouldn't know about the Demon having an advantage in skill. Kiba already has a good description of his stuff in his intelligence section but the best evidence of his skill is through scaling to people such as Kiichi (first key only), who has a bunch of pretty wild abilities (Like this information analysis) and very over the top techniques (For example the Residual Wave leaves a "mark" in one's brain which can later be triggered with certain sounds and causes incredible agony in the victim, and can even used to cause hallucinations through a vibration that invades the victim's brain and leaves it feeling "backwards"- Kiichi learned this after being subjected to it once or twice. He doesn't use this against Kiba I'm just using it as a descriptor of how impressive of a fighter he is, I recommend browsing through his P&A or NA&T for the full picture).

Kiba defeated Kiichi and became an even better fighter afterwards, now admittedly, Kiichi was physically weaker, though not to a crushing degree, but he was also faster, so that should at least balance it out to some degree. There's also Garcia, who Kiba fought for a whole 59 minutes before finally losing (in his second fight with him, he was stomped in 52 seconds in the first fight, but he became better after that and fought him more equally), who has superhuman levels of flexibility and incredible precognition abilities, as well as generally being bred and engineered to be the ultimate fighter (he also like, just doesn't feel pain. at all).
I do think The Demon/Finn’s agile and fluid fighting style will work wonders for him here.
Agility is obviously an advantage but not something Kiba hasn't met before, Kiichi was way nimbler and more agile than Kiba and Garcia... Garcia. Kiba is also very agile himself, I should put acrobatics in his P&A actually.
Most WWE wrestlers have a flaw in their finishers in that they require specific setups or generally don’t have any real guaranteed way to secure them, while Finn has a group of well established, easily started combos to finish the fight when he needs it with better efficiency than most
I assume this isn't referring to Kiba but rather to other character from Finn's own "verse", but I do assure you, Kiba's fighting style is very optimized for real combat (well, "real" anime combat).
I think this is pretty even, so I’ll definitely wait for more discussion before making any verdicts
A factor to count is that Kiba is almost guaranteed to win any grappling exchanges given the superhuman LS difference he has, obviously he still has to be careful about some things but he grapples with very skilled and nimble people that are also comparable to him in LS, so he definitely knows what he's doing, and he's also been taught some super-secret holds from the Nadashinkageryu, which is basically the best super martial art ever of all time ever. This is doubly effective given that from a grapple he can segue into his own (very deadly) finishers.

Also very minor but Kiba has a slight range advantage.
 
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Oh also, the resurrection video for the demon was privated. I don't doubt he has it, just letting you know, since I'd like to see the specifics.
 
Kiba has gone through a bunch of non-regulated fights, actually. In Tough there's two types of wrestling, the flashy, scripted type that's broadcast like IRL, and more underground, non-scripted and no-holds barred fights. Now Kiba is the champion of the former type but he grows sick of it and just wants to prove that he can be the ultimate fighter, period, so most of his on-screen fights are Vale Tudo.
Finn has had his fair share of backstage fights and extreme stipulation matches as well, no disqualification matches happen a fair bit in WWE.


While Kiba has a sadistic streak (and in particular his Iron Driver or Screw-Neck Crusher could be used to break the Demon's neck, at which point if he feels like it he could inflict even more harm before he revives, such as breaking ligaments or bones on his limbs)
Breaking the Demon’s neck… might work? I can’t really speak with all that much certainty on it


so I think he may just choke him out
Yeah that’s fair enough as an option, though keeping the Demon down long enough to knock them unconscious will obviously be trouble


I wouldn't know about the Demon having an advantage in skill. Kiba already has a good description of his stuff in his intelligence section but the best evidence of his skill is through scaling to people such as Kiichi (first key only), who has a bunch of pretty wild abilities (Like this information analysis)
I mean, it’s decent enough but it’s just analysing an opponent for a very hard to find weak point through some pretty good eyesight and knowledge on human biology, if you have Finn time to learn this stuff off by heart (as I’m sure Kiichi has) then he wouldn’t have much trouble replicating these results


and very over the top techniques (For example the Residual Wave leaves a "mark" in one's brain which can later be triggered with certain sounds and causes incredible agony in the victim, and can even used to cause hallucinations through a vibration that invades the victim's brain and leaves it feeling "backwards"- Kiichi learned this after being subjected to it once or twice. He doesn't use this against Kiba I'm just using it as a descriptor of how impressive of a fighter he is, I recommend browsing through his P&A or NA&T for the full picture).
There’s tons of crazy supernatural stuff in WWE as well, and if Kiba has never actually faced it down I’m struggling with how it’s a massive point towards his skill being superior to Finn’s.


This could just be really good chess play. There’s certain setups that let you guarantee checkmate in a certain amount of turns, regardless of how your opponent plays from there on our. Usually when they’re successfully implemented it’s referred to as “mate in x”, and I’m pretty sure they can be planned as many moves ahead as 18


First one isn’t out of this world but yeah that 2nd one is some Luffy shit lmao, fairs


I assume this isn't referring to Kiba but rather to other character from Finn's own "verse", but I do assure you, Kiba's fighting style is very optimized for real combat (well, "real" anime combat).
Agreed, but I’m just saying how Finn’s moveset is noticeably optimised around a crowd of already world-class athletes who have been honing their skills and movesets over decades sometimes
 
I mean, it’s decent enough but it’s just analysing an opponent for a very hard to find weak point through some pretty good eyesight and knowledge on human biology, if you have Finn time to learn this stuff off by heart (as I’m sure Kiichi has) then he wouldn’t have much trouble replicating these results
Eeh, biology doesn't really work that way unless you're really sick (which isn't the case here, at least not usually), it's an effectively superhuman level of analysis. Speaking of (debatably) true concepts being brought to superhuman extents, they can capitalize on this by striking parts of the body different but related to the ones that are actually weak.
There’s tons of crazy supernatural stuff in WWE as well, and if Kiba has never actually faced it down I’m struggling with how it’s a massive point towards his skill being superior to Finn’s.
Here's the thing, that's (allegedly) not supernatural, it's performed through sheer technique, anyone could do it with sufficient skill in-verse, we're on some Baki pseudo-science shit here. In fact all of Kiichi's techniques up until the end of the second series (which is where actual spiritual bs comes into play) are skill-based despite how unrealistic they may be. Dude can literally KO you by shoving a finger up your butt.

In itself learning a technique just by experiencing it once or twice is a pretty notable skill feat and Kiichi does it all the time.
This could just be really good chess play. There’s certain setups that let you guarantee checkmate in a certain amount of turns, regardless of how your opponent plays from there on our. Usually when they’re successfully implemented it’s referred to as “mate in x”, and I’m pretty sure they can be planned as many moves ahead as 18
I think it's meant to be info analysis, given that this is foreshadowing to the reveal that he can analyze any type of technique (which happens in the fight that the chess thing happens right before).
First one isn’t out of this world but yeah that 2nd one is some Luffy shit lmao, fairs
It's not even the goofiest example in the series lmao
Agreed, but I’m just saying how Finn’s moveset is noticeably optimised around a crowd of already world-class athletes who have been honing their skills and movesets over decades sometimes
True but in all fairness, so is Kiba's, in particular he has trained in Nadashinkageryu, which in Tough is effectively the best martial art in the world, not only does it have really unrealistic pressure points stuff but it incorporates elements from all martial arts, even really obscure ones. Now admittedly they don't specify just how much of this Kiba learned, he only had a few months to, but it complements his fighting style very well.
 
Eeh, biology doesn't really work that way unless you're really sick (which isn't the case here, at least not usually)
In our world, yes, but clearly those symptoms can lead to those conclusions in the verse, otherwise the analysis would actually be wrong in coming to said conclusion. It really just takes prior knowledge and a keen eye, but I do get what you mean


Yeah, I will say being able to counteract someone who possesses that ridiculous amount of textbook knowledge on how to find and exploit weak points is very impressive, but Finn certainly has his own accolades as a former world champion who should in theory not even be allowed to compete with his division for safety concerns.


I think it's meant to be info analysis, given that this is foreshadowing to the reveal that he can analyze any type of technique (which happens in the fight that the chess thing happens right before).
Fair enough, although Finn hardly focuses on holds for obvious reasons, there’s not much analysing to be done if a shotgun drop-kick, for example. Also, WWE has its own excellent readers of attacks, Dexter Lumis possesses a “Sixth Sense” that lets him fight while entirely blindfolded for a look into his dodging ability, and not only can wrestlers consistently hit him, but until rather recently he was in NXT, which is pretty much WWE B-League


Nahhhh wtf is this 😭

True but in all fairness, so is Kiba's, in particular he has trained in Nadashinkageryu, which in Tough is effectively the best martial art in the world, not only does it have really unrealistic pressure points stuff but it incorporates elements from all martial arts, even really obscure ones. Now admittedly they don't specify just how much of this Kiba learned, he only had a few months to, but it complements his fighting style very well.
There’s no “Superhuman” martial arts like this in WWE, but if we’re talking Finn’s experience in facing a wide range of martial arts, he certainly has the experience to keep up thanks to simply having faced such a ridiculously wide-ranging list of foes over the years, including those that have dabbled in the Supernatural.
 
Yeah, I will say being able to counteract someone who possesses that ridiculous amount of textbook knowledge on how to find and exploit weak points is very impressive, but Finn certainly has his own accolades as a former world champion who should in theory not even be allowed to compete with his division for safety concerns.
I mean, Kiichi is also a 170 cm (In the first series) dude who basically only fights super heavyweights, and he's doing that at the age of 17.
Fair enough, although Finn hardly focuses on holds for obvious reasons, there’s not much analysing to be done if a shotgun drop-kick, for example.
I'm mostly showcasing a general level of skill, not anything in particular (since Garcia isn't in the fight here especially)
Also, WWE has its own excellent readers of attacks, Dexter Lumis possesses a “Sixth Sense” that lets him fight while entirely blindfolded for a look into his dodging ability, and not only can wrestlers consistently hit him, but until rather recently he was in NXT, which is pretty much WWE B-League
Nadashinkage users have that too, actually
Nahhhh wtf is this 😭
skill
There’s no “Superhuman” martial arts like this in WWE, but if we’re talking Finn’s experience in facing a wide range of martial arts, he certainly has the experience to keep up thanks to simply having faced such a ridiculously wide-ranging list of foes over the years, including those that have dabbled in the Supernatural.
I mean I think it's generally more impressive to fight in a world where martial arts allow for goofy bullshit like this though, when any guy you go up against could shut down your heart with a punch or just start bending like he's made of rubber you really gotta be on top of your shit yknow
 
I mean, Kiichi is also a 170 cm (In the first series) dude who basically only fights super heavyweights, and he's doing that at the age of 17.
Well shi-

At what level were these Super Heavyweights in the first series? If they’re not at the world champion level, then Finn has done his underdog fighting against more impressive opponents, and I’m pretty sure he’ll have done it over a longer period too. What kind of success did Kiichi enjoy at this age/height?



Nadashinkage users have that too, actually
That’s true, but aren’t they rather high up the food chain? Lumis was fighting in a lower division to Finn until very recently, and The Demon is one of the best in Finn’s higher division.
I mean I think it's generally more impressive to fight in a world where martial arts allow for goofy bullshit like this though, when any guy you go up against could shut down your heart with a punch or just start bending like he's made of rubber you really gotta be on top of your shit yknow
I agree Kiba (probably) holds the skill advantage, I’m just saying Finn can keep up, like kinda how Tails can “keep up” with Sonic in a race even though he’s obviously not as fast
 
At what level were these Super Heavyweights in the first series? If they’re not at the world champion level, then Finn has done his underdog fighting against more impressive opponents, and I’m pretty sure he’ll have done it over a longer period too. What kind of success did Kiichi enjoy at this age/height?
Uh, by the end of the first series he's the co-champion of the TDK, which is a vale tudo tournament held in Kiba's honor after his passing, Kiba selected the people he believed to be the world's strongest fighters to participate in it, here are (most of) the partecipants.

The reason he's co-champion is because he lost to Garcia in the finals, but Garcia died right after the fight, regardless, he made it to finals all while forbidden from using his Nadashinkageryu techniques. At least, in the first few fights, he ends up using them in uhh, the third fight he's in? IIRC he technically ties the second (while under the further deficit of only being capable of fighting for three minutes) but the other guy drops out so they have him take part in a bonus fight and he's forced to use the Nadashinkage there, unfortunately the translation for the first series stops there so I can't tell you what happens afterwards.

Earlier in the series nothing quite as impressive but there's still some of the best fighters in the country that he beats.

Bottom line is, pretty impressive.
That’s true, but aren’t they rather high up the food chain? Lumis was fighting in a lower division to Finn until very recently, and The Demon is one of the best in Finn’s higher division.
They are, but they learn that technique even as children.
I agree Kiba (probably) holds the skill advantage, I’m just saying Finn can keep up, like kinda how Tails can “keep up” with Sonic in a race even though he’s obviously not as fast
I think that's a fair assessment, it's not like Kiba is the type who avoids all attacks or anything. But between that, the AP advantage and possibly even more importantly, a LS advantage, IMO he wins more often than not.
 
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Ok, I’d say Kiba has a semi-decent CQC advantage here, though I will note LS likely isn’t mad relevant as Finn and The Demon have nearly always fought with an LS disadvantage, and have naturally had to find ways around this before for The Demon to dominate the way it has

With that in mind, let’s talk their supernatural abilities
 
I think LS is fairly relevant though, even if Finn plays as evasive as possible he'll eventually end up getting tired faster than Kiba and at that point a grapple is basically inevitable.

Resurrection aside, aren't most of the Demon's powers secondary?
 
I think LS is fairly relevant though, even if Finn plays as evasive as possible he'll eventually end up getting tired faster than Kiba and at that point a grapple is basically inevitable.
I guess fair enough, but Finn is in that kind of environment where he holds than disadvantage in nearly all of his matches, against opponents not all that far behind Kiba in skill, and he’s still excelled.

Resurrection aside, aren't most of the Demon's powers secondary?
Mostly, but there is teleportation and light manipulation
 
I guess fair enough, but Finn is in that kind of environment where he holds than disadvantage in nearly all of his matches, against opponents not all that far behind Kiba in skill, and he’s still excelled.
Yeah but like, he still is at a disadvantage, whatever reason he has for winning in his verse is either some advantage in skill (which he doesn't seem to have here), agility (which Kiba has countered) or, idk, plot armor? Kiba still seems to hold most advantages.
Mostly, but there is teleportation and light manipulation
How does he use them
 
Yeah but like, he still is at a disadvantage, whatever reason he has for winning in his verse is either some advantage in skill (which he doesn't seem to have here), agility (which Kiba has countered) or, idk, plot armor? Kiba still seems to hold most advantages
Fair enough


How does he use them
Admittedly teleportation isn’t very commonly used for fights, it’s usually done to enter an area and immediately be within range of his target. Light Manipulation can turn any lights off or tint them red


At this point I lean Kiba, but I’ll hold out with playing Devil’s Advocate a bit longer and see if I can make a breakthrough
 
Admittedly teleportation isn’t very commonly used for fights, it’s usually done to enter an area and immediately be within range of his target. Light Manipulation can turn any lights off or tint them red
Can the Demon see when it's dark?
At this point I lean Kiba, but I’ll hold out with playing Devil’s Advocate a bit longer and see if I can make a breakthrough
I respect that
 
Can the Demon see when it's dark?
Probably...? “Black-Out Attacks” are a common enough trope in WWE where a character (usually one of a supernatural nature) cuts the lights and appears when they come back on, somehow always having moved in the dark into the perfect position to strike. I think there’s an example of someone actually beating up their opponent in the dark too but I’m not sure
 
I think there’s an example of someone actually beating up their opponent in the dark too but I’m not sure
That was easier than I had anticipated, turns out the WWE YouTube channel has a black-out attack compilation

at 1:45

Cena’s about to win, blackout happens, suddenly the whole Wyatt Family is there and has masked and restrained Cena
 
Well, Kiba's stronger now than when he had two eyes, so if you blind him it's logical he'd get even stronger, of course.

At minimum, he's been able to fight people with far superior sensory capabilities in the past (Garcia, that picture is from the first fight where Kiba gets his ass beat but it's not like the ability would go away). I think he'd definitely be thrown off but I don't think it'd be impossible for him to adapt, at least somehow. How frequently does the Demon use it? If he just turns off the lights permanently that'd be trouble but if it's just used in brief intervals I think Kiba can manage.

I actually think Kiba would have ESP since he can sense auras but I feel bad arguing that since I forgot to put it on the file
 
I think there’s an example of someone actually beating up their opponent in the dark too but I’m not sure
Ironically another good example where Finn is the victim


How frequently does the Demon use it.
... If I’m being honest not enough to overturn those CQC disadvantages.


The Demon is a force to be feared with a decent share of hax, and it’s one of the most resilient wrestlers WWE has ever seen, but those advantages aren’t enough against Kiba’s superior AP, Skill, and LS, with his own excellent abilities in survivability. I’ll vote Kiba here High-Mid diff, since I’m not really seeing any other avenues I can explore here to prolong Finn’s stay as a contender here.

This was a pretty good debate, so thanks for that Armor!
 
The Demon is a force to be feared with a decent share of hax, and it’s one of the most resilient wrestlers WWE has ever seen, but those advantages aren’t enough against Kiba’s superior AP, Skill, and LS, with his own excellent abilities in survivability. I’ll vote Kiba here High-Mid diff, since I’m not really seeing any other avenues I can explore here to prolong Finn’s stay as a contender here.

This was a pretty good debate, so thanks for that Armor!
No problem, was fun.

Should I count us both as Kiba FRA, then?
 
Kiba FRA
I am just waiting for the Kiichi matchup in the skill wars
 
Apparently, Iron Kiba is based on japanese pro wrestler Antonio Inoki, who passed away yesterday. I'd hesitate to call it a fun fact nor is it really related to the match, but his Wikipedia page is an interesting read.
 
I was going to vote Incon at first, but Kiba does have a bit too many advantages over Finn here.

I would've voted Incon if the AP gap was smaller.
 
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