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- #41
All the reasons that have been given for Ippo have been countered
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Ippo Makonouchi vs Joe Yabuki
- Thread starter Yojimbo1989
- Start date
- 594
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- Thread starter
- #42
As I was saying 6-1 for Joe, anyone else?
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- #43
Anyone?
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Anyone else? ME
No, seriously. Joe's durability is already beyond Ippo's at the beggining of his career, his willpower surpasses Ippo's as well, and his adaptability makes him arbguably more versatile. Hell, given Joe tanked Kim Young Bi's Chum-Chum(a seamless flurry of punches that can potentially KILL an opponent) even the Dempsey Roll isn't a winning card for Ippo.
Lastly, even if we took out the most unrealistic side of Ashta no Joe, Joe's sparring partner for a huge chunk of the series was a heavy weight, so not even Ippo's weight advantage makes a difference(if it applied, that is).
No, seriously. Joe's durability is already beyond Ippo's at the beggining of his career, his willpower surpasses Ippo's as well, and his adaptability makes him arbguably more versatile. Hell, given Joe tanked Kim Young Bi's Chum-Chum(a seamless flurry of punches that can potentially KILL an opponent) even the Dempsey Roll isn't a winning card for Ippo.
Lastly, even if we took out the most unrealistic side of Ashta no Joe, Joe's sparring partner for a huge chunk of the series was a heavy weight, so not even Ippo's weight advantage makes a difference(if it applied, that is).
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It's 7-1 now.
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Stomp.
9-B vs 9-C
9-B vs 9-C
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- #47
Well, Joe's striking strength is ranked in the KJ range which is street level to wall level, I don't think that there's anything that puts him specifically at wall level and I've read the entire Ashita no Joe manga. So I don't think that there's any thing that specifically puts him at Wall level. I know that his durability is wall level, but would that translate to AP? (there are such things as tanks and glass cannons)AidenBrooks999 said:
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Then?
That's not even relevant. Ippo can't even harm Joe.
That's not even relevant. Ippo can't even harm Joe.
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- #50
Well, I wouldn't say he stomped Mendoza, but what he did is incredibly impressive given that he was punch-drunk at the time
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Bump, because both characters are Wall level now.
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- #52
Hmm, this is now a more interesting match-up, however I still say that Joe wins due to his ability to adapt better in combat and overall stronger mindset
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@Yojimbo Another important thing to mention is that Ippo fights until he gets knocked out, while Joe fights to the death. (Mendoza failed to knock him out, Joe won but died shortly after)
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- #54
Exactly, that's what I meant by Joe's much stronger mindset.The Legendary Carmine said:
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- #55
Do any of the previous votes apply, or do we need to start from scratch now that both have been upgraded?
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Reasons?
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- #58
He really doesn'tArtKsbdhejxneiddjeksk said:
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Joe via reasons above
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- #60
So, do the previous votes apply? Or do we need to count from when the upgrades are made
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bump
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- #63
No, we're assuming he's alive and in perfect healthBlackreti said:
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Joe fra
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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So, i'll assume speed is equalized, because if it wasn't Ippo would be able to easily run circles around Joe.
So, Joe may have more willpower, simply because he goes on till he dies and Ippo still has been knocked out. However, assuming both are at their peak here, I'd say Ippo is the winner. While Joe does have better willpower, Ippo has better stamina on his profile. Sure, Joe will stay standing long after he's exhausted himself, but Ippo will still be able to throw live punches for a longer amount of time then Joe. Ippo also appears to have more experience, as he has been boxing for seven years as opposed to Joe's 5/6 years. Sure, experience hasn't meant much for either when they've gone on to beat boxers with more experience then either of them, but it is still a minute advantage that should not be totally overlooked. Also, regardless of his immense willpower, Joe was still beaten 5 times throughout his career as opposed to Ippo fighting more times then him and only losing three. Not too significant in picking a winner, but it does show that Joe's willpower wasn't always as insane as it was by the end of the series.
Next, Ippo appears to have a larger "arsenal". He has more techniques, more options. Sure, Joe is likely the smarter Boxer, but Ippo has pulled some smart strategies out of nowhere on his own as well and is no slouch (when he fought his first fight in the international league or when he learned how to throw right jabs as effectively as his left jabs in a single round).
Joe also seems to have slightly inferior strength, as his profile notes how he effortlessly knocked his coach through a door and took the door of it's hinges. Ippo on the other hand has managed to stalemate Takamura in arm wrestling (Takamura could lift a small truck with ease) and Ippo could easily dent metal early in his career without even throwing a "proper" punch, as he neglected to use weight shifting or body rotatio.
Although, I do think that in terms of durability, they are fairly even. Ippo could take serious blows from an angry Takamura who punched out a bear and lifted a truck, while Joe could take hits from someone who could knock out cows with ease.
Overall, I think ippo's slightly superior experience, superior stamina, more varied arsenal/variety in techniques and strength will beat out Joe's willpower and durability, though it'll be really tough for Ippo in the long run. (If speed is unequalized, then I say ippo wins handedly. If it is equalized, then Ippo wins after a long and hard fought battle).
So, Joe may have more willpower, simply because he goes on till he dies and Ippo still has been knocked out. However, assuming both are at their peak here, I'd say Ippo is the winner. While Joe does have better willpower, Ippo has better stamina on his profile. Sure, Joe will stay standing long after he's exhausted himself, but Ippo will still be able to throw live punches for a longer amount of time then Joe. Ippo also appears to have more experience, as he has been boxing for seven years as opposed to Joe's 5/6 years. Sure, experience hasn't meant much for either when they've gone on to beat boxers with more experience then either of them, but it is still a minute advantage that should not be totally overlooked. Also, regardless of his immense willpower, Joe was still beaten 5 times throughout his career as opposed to Ippo fighting more times then him and only losing three. Not too significant in picking a winner, but it does show that Joe's willpower wasn't always as insane as it was by the end of the series.
Next, Ippo appears to have a larger "arsenal". He has more techniques, more options. Sure, Joe is likely the smarter Boxer, but Ippo has pulled some smart strategies out of nowhere on his own as well and is no slouch (when he fought his first fight in the international league or when he learned how to throw right jabs as effectively as his left jabs in a single round).
Joe also seems to have slightly inferior strength, as his profile notes how he effortlessly knocked his coach through a door and took the door of it's hinges. Ippo on the other hand has managed to stalemate Takamura in arm wrestling (Takamura could lift a small truck with ease) and Ippo could easily dent metal early in his career without even throwing a "proper" punch, as he neglected to use weight shifting or body rotatio.
Although, I do think that in terms of durability, they are fairly even. Ippo could take serious blows from an angry Takamura who punched out a bear and lifted a truck, while Joe could take hits from someone who could knock out cows with ease.
Overall, I think ippo's slightly superior experience, superior stamina, more varied arsenal/variety in techniques and strength will beat out Joe's willpower and durability, though it'll be really tough for Ippo in the long run. (If speed is unequalized, then I say ippo wins handedly. If it is equalized, then Ippo wins after a long and hard fought battle).
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I haven't seen Ashita no Joe myself yet, but I'll give my vote to Ippo for reasons above. They sound very logical. What I'm observing from their stats, Joe is likely stronger at a higher end of Wall level. But Ippo seems to have everything else. Speed, stamina, technique, experience, etc.
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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So what are the votes at this point?
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I think it's 8-7 from all I counted.
Joe with 8, Ippo with 7.
People kept switching back and forth so it was hard to tell. Plus there's a lot of removed comments.
Joe with 8, Ippo with 7.
People kept switching back and forth so it was hard to tell. Plus there's a lot of removed comments.
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Well both are at/past 7 so we have to wait for one to gain a 3 point lead. Then it's the 24 hour thing. If only one pf them had reached 7 then it would just be the 24 hour thing.
...I think lol. I might be getting that wrong.
...I think lol. I might be getting that wrong.
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From what i saw Joe wins for the following reasons.
1 Ippo is strong but Joe still strong enough to throw a man bigger and heavier than himself over his head with just one arm, punch Danpei with enough force to send him flying a few metres through the air and smash a door off its hinges, ripped a punch bag with his punches,Ruptured the internal organs of Gondo Goromaki, and kill Rikishi with a punch in his temple.
2 Joe has more natural talent than Ippo he is capable of grasping most techniques quickly and adapting to various changing situations, in the first fight of his career he managed to scored a double K.O on Rikishi Who was already a professional and was capable of beat three bulls and was lightweight, while the first fight of Ippo he was beaten by Miyata.
3 Joe fights with brawlers all the time and i don't think that Ippo has a better stamina for what I know Ippo never fought a 15 rounds fight, Joe on the other hand did this even suffering punch drunk syndrome so i think Joe has a better Stamina too.
4 Ippo may have more techniques than Joe but none of that would work on him because his durability is insane, He endured punches of Rikishi that was strong enough to knock down three bulls and the blows of Jose mendoza that was capable of fracturing a human skull with one punch so the liver blow and the gazelle punch won't work and he could counter the dempsey roll since he has already counter the utterly unpredictable Harimau, whilst punch drunk , Ippo's dempsey roll would be child's play by comparison and even if he could not , he tanked Kim Young Bi's Chum-Chum(a seamless flurry of punches that killed two men of the two times it was used) so even the dempsey roll isn't a winning card for Ippo, and joe has a terrifying ability to copy the oponent's techniques.
5 Let's no forget that Ippo has problems with boxers who are good at counter punching , the fight with Sawamura and Gonzales proves that, and Joe is excellent with counters he managed to land the Triple Cross Counter (an extremely difficult technique to pull off) on Mendoza, despite being punch drunk and being completely blind in one eye.
6 As for strenght and durability, Ippo tying with Takamura in a arm wrestling match do not mean anything even because that's not mean he have the same Striking Strength, and Ippo whistanding a couple of punches of Takamura (with a headgear) before get ko'd still a inferior durability feat compared to Joe tanking punches of Rikkishi (with no protection) who was able to beat bulls (cows in the manga) and Takamura beat a asian Black Bear ( who weights in general 110 kg) with a inch of his life. Rikkishi beat THREE BULLS as TRAINING and (Bovinae weights around 720 kg to 1.100 kg) so yeah Joe's durability is beyound Ippo.
7 Joe has more willpower than Ippo , as already said in this thread Joe's fighting spirit is astronomical, his drive to fight has enabled him to defy all odds and push himself further than what any person could ever hope to achieve, while Ippo's determination was easily crushed when he got beaten by Date Eiji ,besides we know that Joe got excited with the news of Carlos Rivera and the strong man he was, There's no question then in a contest of wills that Joe wins.
8 Yeah Joe lost 5 times but unlike Ippo, in 4 of his loses he had a handicap against him 3 were stopped because every time that he punched a guy in ther head he vomited because of post-traumatic stress disoder that he got in his fight with Rikkishi. and the other was vs Joze Mendoza he only lose that beacuse he was already in advanced stage of punch drunk syndrome but managed to lose by decision, and he only lose by ko in one fight, that was against Rikkishi when he was early in his carrer and was very impulsive an inesperienced he lost because he couldn't get up in the count of 10 but he wasn't uncounsios unlike Ippo whose 3 losses where by KO.
9 And finaly For me the main reason why ippo would never have a chance against joe, is because ippo is so weak mentally unlike joe. Remember in the manga when takamura drew a line that separs the world level and the average level, for ippo after his fight against gonzalez ? Ippo got all scared and couldn't move forward pass that line, unlike joe, who would pass that line with full confidence and guts ànd manliness, or when Ippo became punch drunk once, he was ko'd by only 2 punches, on the other hand Joe fight against the best fighter in the world and go for a decision, that's an example like many others why ippo is mentally weak. So yeah for me assuming the speed is equalized, Joe wins with mid difficult.
1 Ippo is strong but Joe still strong enough to throw a man bigger and heavier than himself over his head with just one arm, punch Danpei with enough force to send him flying a few metres through the air and smash a door off its hinges, ripped a punch bag with his punches,Ruptured the internal organs of Gondo Goromaki, and kill Rikishi with a punch in his temple.
2 Joe has more natural talent than Ippo he is capable of grasping most techniques quickly and adapting to various changing situations, in the first fight of his career he managed to scored a double K.O on Rikishi Who was already a professional and was capable of beat three bulls and was lightweight, while the first fight of Ippo he was beaten by Miyata.
3 Joe fights with brawlers all the time and i don't think that Ippo has a better stamina for what I know Ippo never fought a 15 rounds fight, Joe on the other hand did this even suffering punch drunk syndrome so i think Joe has a better Stamina too.
4 Ippo may have more techniques than Joe but none of that would work on him because his durability is insane, He endured punches of Rikishi that was strong enough to knock down three bulls and the blows of Jose mendoza that was capable of fracturing a human skull with one punch so the liver blow and the gazelle punch won't work and he could counter the dempsey roll since he has already counter the utterly unpredictable Harimau, whilst punch drunk , Ippo's dempsey roll would be child's play by comparison and even if he could not , he tanked Kim Young Bi's Chum-Chum(a seamless flurry of punches that killed two men of the two times it was used) so even the dempsey roll isn't a winning card for Ippo, and joe has a terrifying ability to copy the oponent's techniques.
5 Let's no forget that Ippo has problems with boxers who are good at counter punching , the fight with Sawamura and Gonzales proves that, and Joe is excellent with counters he managed to land the Triple Cross Counter (an extremely difficult technique to pull off) on Mendoza, despite being punch drunk and being completely blind in one eye.
6 As for strenght and durability, Ippo tying with Takamura in a arm wrestling match do not mean anything even because that's not mean he have the same Striking Strength, and Ippo whistanding a couple of punches of Takamura (with a headgear) before get ko'd still a inferior durability feat compared to Joe tanking punches of Rikkishi (with no protection) who was able to beat bulls (cows in the manga) and Takamura beat a asian Black Bear ( who weights in general 110 kg) with a inch of his life. Rikkishi beat THREE BULLS as TRAINING and (Bovinae weights around 720 kg to 1.100 kg) so yeah Joe's durability is beyound Ippo.
7 Joe has more willpower than Ippo , as already said in this thread Joe's fighting spirit is astronomical, his drive to fight has enabled him to defy all odds and push himself further than what any person could ever hope to achieve, while Ippo's determination was easily crushed when he got beaten by Date Eiji ,besides we know that Joe got excited with the news of Carlos Rivera and the strong man he was, There's no question then in a contest of wills that Joe wins.
8 Yeah Joe lost 5 times but unlike Ippo, in 4 of his loses he had a handicap against him 3 were stopped because every time that he punched a guy in ther head he vomited because of post-traumatic stress disoder that he got in his fight with Rikkishi. and the other was vs Joze Mendoza he only lose that beacuse he was already in advanced stage of punch drunk syndrome but managed to lose by decision, and he only lose by ko in one fight, that was against Rikkishi when he was early in his carrer and was very impulsive an inesperienced he lost because he couldn't get up in the count of 10 but he wasn't uncounsios unlike Ippo whose 3 losses where by KO.
9 And finaly For me the main reason why ippo would never have a chance against joe, is because ippo is so weak mentally unlike joe. Remember in the manga when takamura drew a line that separs the world level and the average level, for ippo after his fight against gonzalez ? Ippo got all scared and couldn't move forward pass that line, unlike joe, who would pass that line with full confidence and guts ànd manliness, or when Ippo became punch drunk once, he was ko'd by only 2 punches, on the other hand Joe fight against the best fighter in the world and go for a decision, that's an example like many others why ippo is mentally weak. So yeah for me assuming the speed is equalized, Joe wins with mid difficult.
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So the score is now
- Joe: 9
- Ippo: 7
GimmyJibbsJr
They/Them- 1,438
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Should we retally the votes, or make a new thread for this? Because iirc most of the votes made for both characters here are largely based on old info before Ippo's buffs.
Plus I'm still not sure if this is even speed equalized or not tbqh
Plus I'm still not sure if this is even speed equalized or not tbqh
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Count the votes.
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Yeah if speed isn't equalized, Ippo blitzes. He should be Supersonic since he's on par with Miyata. I have NO clue why he's only at Transonic. I don't get the logic behind that. Retallying does sound like a good idea though. Keep the votes made after the buffs and have them as the start of a new thread I guess.GimmyJibbsJr said:
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