Invincible CRT Vol 1. Viltrum Matters

[Tahoy49574]

At first I was going to make this a pretty bulky post, but I'll be fairly busy this next week, so I'll split it in 3

An Invincible AP upgrade is going to be controversial for the time being, so I'll just work with what we have now

First things first, we've got to change the verse's picture

0.- Presentation

This one doesn't have any text obstructing it and it's quality is better (also these colors are kinda nicer imo)

1.- Upscaling characters to Low-5 B

1.1 Oliver (Kid Omni-Man)
Already capable of drawing blood from Omni-Man while still developing

Portrayed to be on equal grounds with Mark after fully developing (Post-Viltrumite War)

1.2 Robot

Robot is very much supposed to be a viltrumite-tier character

His drones are capable of withstanding attacks from Mark multiple times

Due to what's at stake he would still be hitting it hard enough to subdue him or even destroy it before he's too hurt, and he has no reason to hold back in space.

Robot's drones would also be able to kill some viltrumites if they ever went to war against him

1.3 Atom Eve
Post-Resurrections Eve should scale to Viltrumite War era characters



Nuff's said. Tho being fair, she got taken out rather quickly in the Invincible War so that doesn't really count, but she did fairly better against the Thraxan viltrumites after her second amp, managing to fend off a horde of them for a while. Her constructs also notably managed to resist attacks from Ursaal(who should be comparable to her brother, who in turn can give Mark a hard time) prior to her second resurrection, and while they were destroyed, after he second resurrection she should comfortably be able to do much better, she was expecting to fight them again after all. All in all, Ursaal and her brother have a red uniform, which would signify their superiority among the others, as another viltrumite with this same attire also managed to give a Post-Resurrection Invincible a fight(tho admittedly it happened off-screen and Mark was statedly out of practice). At worst it would be an At most

Also someone please make a render out of this, she needs a more badass picture lol

1.4 Tech Jacket
The fact that while looking for effective weapons against viltrumites not a single Earth hero is considered but him should put him way above all of them. His weapons are also capable of hurting viltrumites:

The one on this panel being one from the squad sent to subdue Nolan in Thraxa, here we can see they're comparable

And while his armor did get badly damaged from one hit, in all honesty if this was flesh it would just be a bloody nose break like we often see in the series

Regardless, arguably Zack grows stronger after this fight, as his blasts went from not registering to notably affecting Kregg, a high ranking viltrumite

During the Viltrumite War, Thaedus says he might have to split Tech Jacket and Allen to help their forces in case a viltrumite joins the fight, implying he would be able to hold his own against one, and later on he asks for his help to throw part of the viltrumite warship to space, once again implying relativity

Miscellaneous

Conquest

Just a rephrasing. Simply saying "Stronger than Invincible" doesn't really cut it when he maimed the guy with ease in their first fight and punched a hole through him in the second one. I propose "Far stronger than Invincible". Case in point, that's how Kirkman himself describes the gap

Battle Beast

He should have a "..., far higher with weaponry" as with his sword and hammer he was able to one shot rognarrs, who in turn can severely injure Thragg, and himself of course

Yes: ByAsura
No:
Perhaps:

 

[Tahoy49574]

Also since this guy doesn't seem to be around anymore, I'll push this for him

Calculation to upgrade Tech Jacket's LS: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...d_Tech_Jacket_throw_a_warship_off-planet_calc

 

[Tahoy49574]

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Nuetral on everthing else but compeltely against scaling Eve to Vultrimites

but she did fairly better against the Thraxan viltrumites after her second amp, managing to fend off a horde of them for a while

The Thraxan Vultrimite hybrids wearing white literally don't scale to Vultrimites though....

These guys are said to be weaker than actual grown Vultrimites on panel so they don't actually scale to anyone relevant (Keep in mind they are still weaker even after the first Invasion - Basically implying that they are getting stronger over time which isn't rare or shocking seeing as how they are Thraxan Vultrimite Hybrids that age at an accelerated rate and Vultrimites grown stronger as they grow up [They are mostly kids & Teens who are growing into adults]):

And not only that they are so ridiculously outclassed by actual Vultrimits on Mark and Nolans level that they unironically die on impact with them - Like they are so weak they not only can't deal damage to Mark nor Nolan nor Alen but they literally die on impact with them.

This would be the equivalent of me scaling to a meters thick Titanium wall because someone who I can fight smashed their head against it and got brain damage without so much as scratching the wall.

Honestly this is like a genuine anti-feat for her scaling to any vultrimite because these guys are ass compared to all of them yet can break her barriers and barely take any damage from her sword swings despite them literally dying on impact with Mark, Nolan and Alen.

Her constructs also notably managed to resist attacks from Ursaal(who should be comparable to her brother, who in turn can give Mark a hard time)

Mark was focused on protecting his daughter and took literally 0 damage from both Ursaal and her brother only had a "Hard time" because he was holding back, the moment he stopped he put her in the ground like a looney toon and squeezed her brothers neck off like it was wet paper.

I don't think Eve scales to these any adult Vultrimite at all, her perfomance against the white shirts should be proof enough

I want to emphasis this just so we can hammer the point in -

These guys are so utterly incapable of matching Mark, Nolan or Alen that they literally die on impact with any of them while dealing 0 damage to them. Even when they bullrush in massive hordes they were unable to deal even the most superficial injuries to Mark, Nolan and Alen

Yet when it comes to Eve, they can break through her shields and constructs like their expensive glass.

If Eve scaled to any of them in a way that mattered, these White Shirt Thraxan Vultrimite Hybrids would be completely incapable of bypassing her shields to any degree, and not only that her construct sword wouldn't break while dealing damage to them

 

[Tahoy49574]

Nuetral on everthing else but compeltely against scaling Eve to Vultrimites

Neutral even on presentation ? :'(

These guys are so utterly incapable of matching Mark, Nolan or Alen that they literally die on impact with any of them while dealing 0 damage to them. Even when they bullrush in massive hordes they were unable to deal even the most superficial injuries to Mark, Nolan and Alen

I mean, these are a Mark who's around Thragg's level, an Allen who got a second boost and withstood attacks from said Mark, and there's been a 5-year time skip and a war so all viltrumites would also upscale from previous feat by this point. Case in point, Nolan grew strong enough to survive much more punishment from Thragg than before and still keep on fighting and the later even recognizes his strength(and Thragg has also gotten stronger at this point, as he went from being heavily injured by Rognarrs to one shotting them[Actually, I'm going to add this Battle Beast stuff to the thread]).

All in all, viltrumites in general outclass the Low 5-B value by the end of the story and Oliver was already around it while still developing, so these other viltrumite hybrids being the same it's not so far-fetched.

At worst they would be around the average viltrumite strength, which is Moon level (which is also a lowball as severely injured ones would be able to do it)

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I mean, these are a Mark who's around Thragg's level, an Allen who got a second boost and withstood attacks from said Mark, and there's been a 5-year time skip and a war so all viltrumites would also upscale from previous feat by this point. Case in point, Nolan grew strong enough to survive much more punishment from Thragg than before and still keep on fighting and the later even recognizes his strength(and Thragg has also gotten stronger at this point, as he went from being heavily injured by Rognarrs to one shotting them[Actually, I'm going to add this Battle Beast stuff to the thread]).

All in all, viltrumites in general outclass the Low 5-B value by the end of the story and Oliver was already around it while still developing, so these other viltrumite hybrids being the same it's not so far-fetched.

At worst they would be around the average viltrumite strength, which is Moon level (which is also a lowball as severely injured ones would be able to do it)

The problem with this is that it doesn't work because we've directly seen that the White Shirt Hybrids simply do not scale to Vultrimites at all

They could not harm Mark, Nolan or Alen at all and died on contact with them.

Again this would be like scaling someone to a titanium wall despite us having clear cut showing of them ramming into one and dying on impact while dealing 0 damage to it. It simply doesn't make any sense at all.

Scaling any of them to Vultrimites is completely asinine because we know they clearly don't scale at all.

Why would they scale to something they can't damage and die on impact with regardless of how they attack it at full force. It's just too much of a leap in common sense.

And even if we do scale them to the average Vultrimites Strength, Eve still would not scale to that at all seeing as how they tear through her shields like it's glass.

I see no reason the scale them to anything relevant. Like Marks daughter as a child broke her leg trying to kick Thragg, this would be equivalent to seeing that and scaling her to Thragg despite it

 

[Reyne]

The thing about Nolan vs Thragg is that Thragg still ends up cutting him nearly in half. Like Conquest vs Mark and Mark vs Onaan, they can throw punches, but one of the two is shown capable of ripping the other apart. A true peer fight is Thragg and Battle Beast, as the fight ends with Thragg exploiting the other's previously exposed inards.

I don't see how those two panels put pre time skip Oliver on Mark's level. Yes, he can draw blood at an even earlier age, but the scene with Thresha is one panel, and Mark is simply shocked by her strength while Oliver actively looks like he has to put effort into restraining her. His uniform is also far more torn apart than rusty pre time skip Mark's uniform. Post time skip Oliver is believably on par with Mark, in spite of not actually doing any damage to Thragg.

Upgrading the volcanic drones means upgrading at least Monster Girl and Monox, who were capable of tearing them apart. Mark is able to effortlessly over power and punch through Robot at the end, which I think can be used to show the divide between him and his pre-time skip self, who could only bust Robot's lenses while in a vacuum.

Also, the second Ottley draws up or even sketches an older Emperor Mark, that HAS to be used for his profile.

 

[Tahoy49574]

They could not harm Mark, Nolan or Alen at all and died on contact with them.

I've already explained that by that point in the story they all upscale their current Low 5-B value a good degree

And even if we do scale them to the average Vultrimites Strength, Eve still would not scale to that at all seeing as how they tear through her shields like it's glass.

Yes she does, dozens of them were needed to break her constructs that quickly and she can individually harm them, even if the sword broke she still hit her with enough force to leave a big cut across her face

Also, the site already considers them to be comparable to Oliver, who can make Omni-Man bleed while still developing, so if he is accepted as Low 5-B they'd also be by extend

but the scene with Thresha is one panel, and Mark is simply shocked by her strength while Oliver actively looks like he has to put effort into restraining her. His uniform is also far more torn apart than rusty pre time skip Mark's uniform.

Ok so a bit more context, Thresha can harm both red and white shirt viltrumites and even make Battle Beast bleed, the fact Mark is surprised by her strength should solidify she scales. For the other, Mark and Oliver both fight and kill a Rynax, Oliver's suit being more damaged than Mark's may as well be because he fights more recklessly, but their conversation afterwards seems to imply he performed better/got more involved overall than Mark. The way they talk about them also portrays them as being pretty tough

I'd also argue one of Tech Jacket's points for him, there'd be no point in bringing him along if he couldn't help against the viltrumites during the war (and he does, as after training he's capable of blocking attacks and hurting them), and the site already accepts they don't go lower than 5-C. Saying he caps at an Very Early Mark is
plain downplay

Upgrading the volcanic drones means upgrading at least Monster Girl and Monox, who were capable of tearing them apart.

They don't have profiles doe

In all honesty, Robot War is pretty wonky scaling wise

 

[Reyne]

I've already explained that by that point in the story they all upscale their current Low 5-B value a good degree

Yes she does, dozens of them were needed to break her constructs that quickly and she can individually harm them, even if the sword broke she still hit her with enough force to leave a big cut across her face

Also, the site already considers them to be comparable to Oliver, who can make Omni-Man bleed while still developing, so if he is accepted as Low 5-B they'd also be by extend


Ok so a bit more context, Thresha can harm both red and white shirt viltrumites and even make Battle Beast bleed, the fact Mark is surprised by her strength should solidify she scales. For the other, Mark and Oliver both fight and kill a Rynax, Oliver's suit being more damaged than Mark's may as well be because he fights more recklessly, but their conversation afterwards seems to imply he performed better/got more involved overall than Mark. The way they talk about them also portrays them as being pretty tough

I'd also argue one of Tech Jacket's points for him, there'd be no point in bringing him along if he couldn't help against the viltrumites during the war (and he does, as after training he's capable of blocking attacks and hurting them), and the site already accepts they don't go lower than 5-C. Saying he caps at an Very Early Mark is
plain downplay

They don't have profiles doe

In all honesty, Robot War is pretty wonky scaling wise

Which means she has very durable and sharp claws. If she was even close to Mark's level, she'd have been sent alongside Battle Beast (the plan was for the Ragnar to weaken Thragg before Battle Beast fought him; addition aid was kept back as Thragg hadn't been weakened enough, so she wouldn't need to hang back like Space Racer).

The rynax did look to be tough, but I disagree that Mark not performing as well as he should have puts Oliver on par with him. The "how's you back" line seems to imply Mark simply made easy errors that a more experienced fighter shouldn't have, and yet he suit wasn't nearly as messed up as Oliver's, despite Oliver not being rusty, which puts his skill and power below Mark. This and Dinosaurus are also good examples of strong characters/beings who don't have sharp enough weapons to pierce viltrumites/even stronger beings.

I don't think you've acknowledged Tech Jack having gotten 10x more powerful since these fights (to aid in your effort to see him upgraded). Also, I think I saw this somewhere else (possibly another verse), but why is the Earth split threat used twice? It's used as the base line at moon level and as a higher end at small planet.

I forget that Invincible doesn't have very many profiles.

 

[Tahoy49574]

If she was even close to Mark's level, she'd have been sent alongside Battle Beast

Would she ? The rognarrs have constantly been portrayed as literally eating viltrumites for lunch, they weren't there to just weaken but straight up kill Thragg. Mark wouldn't come close to them and Allen knows that, that's why he sent him and Oliver to finish Thragg off after his fight with Battle Beast(you also got to factor in speed, as Space Racer, who scales to viltrumites speed wise, couldn't keep up with Thragg's and Battle Beast's fight)

I don't think you've acknowledged Tech Jack having gotten 10x more powerful since these fights (to aid in your effort to see him upgraded).

That wasn't natural growth, it was an amp only he kinda scales to since he didn't fight anyone notable (tho being fair, if you were to ask Kirkman he'd probably say EoS Mark and Thragg are stronger)

but why is the Earth split threat used twice? It's used as the base line at moon level and as a higher end at small planet.

What's wrong with using it here ? It's an accepted calc Oliver and Zack should scale to (as a low-ball) if they want to pose a threat to a viltrumite

 

[ByAsura]

1.2 Robot
1.3 Atom Eve
1.4 Tech Jacket

I'll get to the rest of the stuff later, but these three are basically already agreed upon by staff in another thread that I made.

 

[Reyne]

Would she ? The rognarrs have constantly been portrayed as literally eating viltrumites for lunch, they weren't there to just weaken but straight up kill Thragg. Mark wouldn't come close to them and Allen knows that, that's why he sent him and Oliver to finish Thragg off after his fight with Battle Beast(you also got to factor in speed, as Space Racer, who scales to viltrumites speed wise, couldn't keep up with Thragg's and Battle Beast's fight)

That wasn't natural growth, it was an amp only he kinda scales to since he didn't fight anyone notable (tho being fair, if you were to ask Kirkman he'd probably say EoS Mark and Thragg are stronger)

What's wrong with using it here ? It's an accepted calc Oliver and Zack should scale to (as a low-ball) if they want to pose a threat to a viltrumite

Actually, that's a point I forgot about. Neither her or Space Racer were sent down to finish Thragg off. Oh yeah, they got scared of by the Thraxans, and Space Racer knocked her out with one punch.

How he got the power doesn't matter. My point is that it would add to the sentiment that he's near or at viltrumite level.

The issue is that there seems to be two very different values for the same feat, on the same profile.

 

[Tahoy49574]

I'll get to the rest of the stuff later, but these three are basically already agreed upon by staff in another thread that I made.

Ey that's cool. Well at least this thread brought it up again without being accused of necro, can these be applied right now then, or who should we contact ?

Actually, that's a point I forgot about. Neither her or Space Racer were sent down to finish Thragg off. Oh yeah, they got scared of by the Thraxans.

Tbf they were attacked immediately after(if not before) Battle Beast fell, and none of them can fly (and Space Racer couldn't summon his bike for some reason), so having their spaceship destroyed and drifting aimlessly through space would be pretty bad

The issue is that there seems to be two very different values for the same feat, on the same profile.

Damn, I've just realized it's pretty messy lol, that'll have to be addressed later

Still, what's currently accepted in the verse's page is 5-C as the average viltrumite strength since that's what each of them would have to apply to split the Earth, and Low 5-B to how the site currently looks at the Viltrum feat

 

[ByAsura]

Ey that's cool. Well at least this thread brought it up again without being accused of necro, can these be applied right now then, or who should we contact ?

I think it should be fine to apply, especially since there's another, similar thread where a Robot upgrade was agreed on by other staff.

 

[Tahoy49574]

I think it should be fine to apply, especially since there's another, similar thread where a Robot upgrade was agreed on by other staff.

Who do we contact to apply them then, are they even awake ?

 

[ByAsura]

I can apply them in a few hours, or tomorrow.

 

[Tahoy49574]

I can apply them in a few hours, or tomorrow.

Damn nice, tho could you also look at the other stuff before that ?

 

[Reyne]

Ey that's cool. Well at least this thread brought it up again without being accused of necro, can these be applied right now then, or who should we contact ?

Tbf they were attacked immediately after(if not before) Battle Beast fell, and none of them can fly (and Space Racer couldn't summon his bike for some reason), so having their spaceship destroyed and drifting aimlessly through space would be pretty bad

Damn, I've just realized it's pretty messy lol, that'll have to be addressed later

Still, what's currently accepted in the verse's page is 5-C as the average viltrumite strength since that's what each of them would have to apply to split the Earth, and Low 5-B to how the site currently looks at the Viltrum feat

Space Racer said they were going to die and ended up drifting in space anyways.

 

[ByAsura]

I'll wait for all the changes to be accepted to make them, then.

0.- Presentation

Makes sense.

1.1 Oliver (Kid Omni-Man)

This is good.

Also someone please make a render out of this, she needs a more badass picture lol

How's this?

Edit: The upload screwed with the pixelation around the edge of the render. I'll make a new one.

"Far stronger than Invincible"

I guess this should be fine considering we have a literal statement.

He should have a "..., far higher with weaponry" as with his sword and hammer he was able to one shot rognarrs, who in turn can severely injure Thragg, and himself of course

This is good.

 

[Reyne]

Another thing to use for Upgraded Tech Jacket is his ability to tangle with multiple adult Thraxian-Viltrumites at once and blast through one of them (the energy is forming on the other side).