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Instant Death "Lives" Up to its Name (By Dying Instantly) [Part 1]

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Light novels, huh? I have a reputation with one in particular, but in dealing with He Who Shall Not Be Named, I’ve realized that these verses have a tendency to skirt by a lot of standards just by virtue of having an established reputation as OP. While That One Guy might’ve been the prime example, Yogiri Takatou - and his associated verse, Instant Death - tends to come up as one of the de facto light novels to solo everyone’s verse because of how cool and epic his completely unique and special cheat ability is. Naturally, claims of extreme power make me a little suspicious, and wouldn’t you know it, there’s a ******* treasure trove of wank in here.

So that’s what this thread is. The first part of a full analysis and takedown of another light novel, focusing on Yogiri himself since his abilities are easiest to source. Maybe I’ll do more light novels after this, idk. Probably.

don’t ask me about the staff thread i was supposed to have made by now, i have 0 self control

Death Manipulation

Obvious wank.

Curse Manipulation

Yogiri is able to use his death manipulation on a delay. That isn’t really a curse so much as it is him holding back, as he himself puts it. This is less of a power and more of a separate use of an existing power
Click to expand...
Death manipulation is under curse manipulation anyways but I’m going to be neutral towards this.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Technology Manipulation

This is just him killing people who look at him, with those effects carrying across anyone who sees a recording of him activating his power. Don’t let the several pages of text fool you, because it really comes down to this:

“The camera captured the moment his power activated. His mind was likely fairly hazy, so he was probably just targeting anyone looking at him.”

So this is just another instance of how he applies his ability, rather than him being able to directly alter technology itself. Things like this should go under his NA&T instead.

Perception Manipulation

He isn’t directly killing a target’s senses; Rather, he kills the organs responsible for those senses. While it’s supernatural in nature, it isn’t much different from giving someone perception manipulation for shooting someone’s eye with a gun.
Click to expand...
Yogiri perception manipulation should be kept in place. As Lain was unable to heal the dog organs that were killed by Yogiri, even after she completely removed it and created a new one. Going by your example that you gave “if the person eye was shot by a gun” simply healing it would be enough to restore its perception but that is not the case with Yogiri’s abilities which is why perception manipulation is being awarded
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Telepathy/Mind Manipulation Negation

This is… an odd case. Basically, when Yogiri uses his powers, he’s able to make it so that a person is unable to be communicated with telepathically or mind controlled. The issue is, the context is that he killed the target’s ‘ears’, so this isn’t really negating the mindhax in question as much as it is deleting the target of those hax. Like how erasing someone’s soul isn’t soulhax negation.

Power Nullification

The scan on the profile is conveniently cropped to leave out the full context. The claim that Yogiri can kill a person’s powers is bunk; As he himself puts it, he merely kills whatever object is fired towards him, while anything that isn’t a direct attack is outside his capabilities. So this should be downgraded to “limited” power null, as characters can still use their powers after the fact, and Yogiri can only nullify a very small number of attacks.
Click to expand...

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Causality Manipulation

This comes from this set of scans. The general gist is “nobody knows the cause of death when Yogiri uses his powers, so obviously there is no cause and Yogiri can ignore causality”. I don’t need to explain this. This is like saying sudden infant death syndrome is causality hax.
Click to expand...
Causality manipulation should be removed as it’s more of causality negation with his abilities being stated to have no cause and effect relationship multiple times
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Law Manipulation/Subjective Reality/Existence Erasure

First, the easy one. This scan shows Yogiri killing a pocket dimension with different rules. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out that destroying a reality with altered laws doesn’t mean you have law manipulation.

For the other scan… for starters, this feat was performed while he was in his 2nd gate, so idk why this is in the 1st gate key. Even then, killing momentum is just physics manipulation, not really law manipulation despite the two tending to overlap some (he even has physics manipulation in his 2nd key for this reason). Saying that he “kills phenomena” is interesting, but so little extra context is given to that statement that it seems to be a reach to say that he can kill universal laws or whatever. As for SR, saying that what lives and what dies is up to his perception is just saying that he can kill things with a thought, or just decide who lives and who dies. It isn’t turning imagination into reality or whatever.
Click to expand...
For his SR, “death” is based on his perception and the things he considers to be dear stay dead. Yogiri is bringing his own perception of what “death” entails into reality which gives way for most of his “negations” such as immortality and regen , part of the abilities under the SR page states “negation” and “Existence erasure”
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
As for EE, it’s either incorrectly lumped in with these abilities, or has no scans at all. Either justify it with something else, or it goes.
Click to expand...
Huh? Yogiri erasing the UEG, stated to be able to erase souls what exactly is wrong with his existence erasure?
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Limited Invulnerability

“While wearing this outfit, projectiles moved unnaturally to avoid Yogiri, fireball magic dissipated on itself and an attack from a greatsword bounced off Yogiri's coat, leaving him completely unharmed. Though attacks that exceed its durability seemingly could still harm Yogiri”

do i really need to explain this one

Resistance to Probability Manipulation

He killed someone who has an ability that lets them dodge anything. That’s it. Considering his ability is “just kill shit without attacking them”, this doesn’t seem to require a “resistance” of any kind.

Resistance to Sealing

Destroying an object that’s been sealed doesn’t really give you any resistance to being sealed yourself. Just lump this in with his power null.

Resistance to Power Bestowal

Yogiri is one of a few people who was not installed with the Battle Song system. However, it’s just an inherent flaw of the program that it sometimes doesn’t have compatibility with a user, so it’s not a resistance on Yogiri’s end.

That’s all for now. There are some other issues I have with his abilities, but those tend to deal with other characters or verse mechanics so I need to save those for later. Also, I recommend explaining his final key’s type 5 acausality in this thread to see if it’s still valid.
Click to expand...
Agree with the rest anways
 
Winzy said:
I agree with the removal of Perception Manipulation, I believe it should be changed to Sense Manipulation instead. However, I don't think Yogiri is just killing a particular sense organ whenever he kills well.. sense organs. If that were the case then simply removing any organ he kills and regrowing it would be enough to get one's senses back.

But as we've seen, this is not the case, even with newly grown sense organs, his victims do not regain their senses. This is made clear in the whole Sage Lain arc: She removed the eye of a beastkin whose eyes were killed by Yogiri, she healed the said beastkin's eye, growing him a new one and yet he couldn't still see.

Basically, Yogiri kills the very function of a particular organ whenever he does that and not just kills the organs. Sense Manipulation should cover that.
Click to expand...
I've already agreed to this being healing negation, where the things he kills cannot regain their functionality even when healed. It isn't a more specific power.

Winzy said:
I agree, the EE justification is quite lacking. Killing Yama who had no concept of death and causing her very being to disperse is a better justification, don't know why this wasn't used.
Click to expand...
Do you have scans of this?

Winzy said:
Actually, his perception of the world is the reason his victims stay dead whenever he kills them. So you could say his perception affects reality.
Click to expand...
I've yet to see any evidence of this.

narutosage15 said:
Huh? Yogiri erasing the UEG, stated to be able to erase souls what exactly is wrong with his existence erasure?
Click to expand...
I already know about the soul erasure scan, can you give a scan of the other example?

narutosage15 said:
Causality manipulation should be removed as it’s more of causality negation with his abilities being stated to have no cause and effect relationship multiple times
Click to expand...
It isn't anything at all though... His ability having no visible cause is just in reference to how nobody understands how he kills people, or that he just wills death upon them. They don't die from injury or disease or what have you, they just die, which isn't causality hax.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
The first scan works for me, but my one question is why this doesn't happen at any other point if it's a quality of his death manipulation
Click to expand...
Because Yama is a spirit (I think). They fade after being targeted by his ability. Teresa's soul was gone after being targetted by him as well, while people like humans just drop dead. Probably because in Yogiri's view a spirit disappearing after dying/meeting their end makes more sense.
 
In that case, I'm neutral on it? On the one hand, Yogiri does imply his ability erases souls. On the other hand, it could be that that's just what happens to souls when they "die". If it is EE, it should be noted that it seems to only work on spiritual beings while everyone else dies normally.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
In that case, I'm neutral on it? On the one hand, Yogiri does imply his ability erases souls. On the other hand, it could be that that's just what happens to souls when they "die". If it is EE, it should be noted that it seems to only work on spiritual beings while everyone else dies normally.
Click to expand...
Found an explicit scan that maybe satisfy your criteria.

Yogiri erasing a ghost stated by Narration.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Alright then, I'm fine with EE on the basis that that's how his death manipulation interacts with ghosts.
Click to expand...
Sure.
It can be noted that Instant Death ensures permanent death in a convenient way. For biological lifeforms, the body cease to function, those that exist or can exist as ghosts/spirits/souls get erased, including those whom can regenerate from soul (Low-Godly), Inorganic Physiology simply stops moving, and etc.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I've yet to see any evidence of this.
Click to expand...
Abstractly_a_Protagonist said:
Yogiri can assume something exist making so he can kill it.

Narration also state Yogiri believe that Death Irreversible, that anyone that are killed by him are "truly death" despite witnessing someone coming back to live or someone resurrecting the death. To Yogiri his power is irreversible, and to the victim of his power death are absolute. Fyi, this is in First Gate.
Click to expand...
These two scan above, coupled with this.
As @narutosage15 said, Death is subjective to Yogiri. If they are moving then it means they are alive to him, if they are alive to him, it means they are capable of dying AKA stop moving. This perception conveniently makes it so he can negate pretty much all immortality, including Inorganic Object and Undeads.
 
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The first scan isn't SR. It's a case of him killing something he can't perceive, which is impressive, but he isn't turning this hypothetical being into a real being, so much as he is killing the hypothetical being as it is.

For another example, say Yogiri is fighting someone who turns invisible. He can't see them, and they aren't attacking him, so he can't kill them. However, he sees a footprint in the ground, so he concludes that it must've been left by someone, and then uses his ability on that "someone" even if he doesn't really know who it is. That just isn't subjective reality.

The second scan is a case of correlation =/= causation. Yogiri believes that death means permanency in the truest sense, but that doesn't mean that that belief is what makes his power work the way it does. If it were, any other instance of "death" occurring in his perception would have the same effect, regardless of who does it, since it's his personal perception of death in general and not his perception of his specific ability.
 
Alright, the part where he says "I decide what death is" is definitely a lot more convincing. I'm kinda neutral on it actually being SR because it may also just be him deciding when, where, and how things die, but I get where other interpretations would come from so I'll make a note of it in the OP.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I've already agreed to this being healing negation, where the things he kills cannot regain their functionality even when healed. It isn't a more specific power.


Do you have scans of this?


I've yet to see any evidence of this.


I already know about the soul erasure scan, can you give a scan of the other example?


It isn't anything at all though... His ability having no visible cause is just in reference to how nobody understands how he kills people, or that he just wills death upon them. They don't die from injury or disease or what have you, they just die, which isn't causality hax.
Click to expand...
You don’t seem to understand “causality “ the ability to revert the cause of an event to prevent the upcoming effect. Yogiri negates such, using the HRE as a case Yogiri invoked his death manipulation on him and he foresaw his death would occur within 10 secs, which he reversed time with an additional 5secs making it 15secs before he foresaw his death. But that was not the case the “cause” for his death was still lingering and could not be removed no matter how much the HRE tried to change the event, denoting that Yogiri’s ability bypasses causality which grants causality negation
 
narutosage15 said:
You don’t seem to understand “causality “ the ability to revert the cause of an event to prevent the upcoming effect. Yogiri negates such, using the HRE as a case Yogiri invoked his death manipulation on him and he foresaw his death would occur within 10 secs, which he reversed time with an additional 5secs making it 15secs before he foresaw his death. But that was not the case the “cause” for his death was still lingering and could not be removed no matter how much the HRE tried to change the event, denoting that Yogiri’s ability bypasses causality which grants causality negation
Click to expand...
Ignoring how that explanation makes my head hurt, you really do need to provide scans for these things.
 
Maybe the issue is that the scans that actually prove these abilities weren't on the profile to begin with.

I'm fine with causality hax on the basis that Yogiri's ability works even if you go back in time. The stuff about not having a cause/effect relationship is still wrong though.
 
Deagonx said:
Yeah but it just appears that he can target anyone who sees him, even if through technology, so his power isn't manipulating technology. It's just that seeing him in any capacity allows him to target you with death.
Click to expand...
Based on what's been discussed here, has your opinion on any ability changed?
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Maybe the issue is that the scans that actually prove these abilities weren't on the profile to begin with.

I'm fine with causality hax on the basis that Yogiri's ability works even if you go back in time. The stuff about not having a cause/effect relationship is still wrong though.
Click to expand...
Why is it wrong when it’s being stated multiple times and has evidence to back it up, and before you ask for scans CHECK THE PROFILE
 
The entire reason why I'm here is because the scans on his profile were bad and did not justify many of his powers. Like, I looked through his profile, I know what scans are on it, so I don't need you to tell me they're on the profile.
 
Yes some of the scans used were dogshit, but then again most of the scans you’re asking for are on the profile, I haven’t brought/said anything outside the scans on his profile
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I've yet to see any evidence of this.
Click to expand...
Now you have.

To sum it all up: The narrative states that anything that contradicts Yogiri's perception cannot occur in his perception of reality. This is why his victims stay dead regardless of whether or not they had the power to resurrect themselves. So yeah, his Subjective Reality is pretty valid.
 
Curse Manipulation
Yogiri is able to use his death manipulation on a delay. That isn’t really a curse so much as it is him holding back, as he himself puts it. This is less of a power and more of a separate use of an existing power.
  • Narrative call it be able to work as a curse, and the evidence is posted in the thread; by the definition of the page, the ability is correct, so I don't see the reason to remove it.

Technology Manipulation

This is just him killing people who look at him, with those effects carrying across anyone who sees a recording of him activating his power. Don’t let the several pages of text fool you, because it really comes down to this:

“The camera captured the moment his power activated. His mind was likely fairly hazy, so he was probably just targeting anyone looking at him.”

So this is just another instance of how he applies his ability, rather than him being able to directly alter technology itself. Things like this should go under his NA&T instead.

Perception Manipulation

He isn’t directly killing a target’s senses; Rather, he kills the organs responsible for those senses. While it’s supernatural in nature, it isn’t much different from giving someone perception manipulation for shooting someone’s eye with a gun.
Telepathy/Mind Manipulation Negation
This is… an odd case. Basically, when Yogiri uses his powers, he’s able to make it so that a person is unable to be communicated with telepathically or mind controlled. The issue is, the context is that he killed the target’s ‘ears’, so this isn’t really negating the mindhax in question as much as it is deleting the target of those hax. Like how erasing someone’s soul isn’t soulhax negation.
  • It is closer to less direct negation/power or nullifying these powers; it could be coupled under power nullification. Power nullfication still seems valid by the page:
    • However, certain forms of Power Nullification may prevent the usage of powers through less direct methods, making resistance less useful and the strength of the ability less relevant.

Power Nullification
The scan on the profile is conveniently cropped to leave out the full context. The claim that Yogiri can kill a person’s powers is bunk; As he himself puts it, he merely kills whatever object is fired towards him, while anything that isn’t a direct attack is outside his capabilities. So this should be downgraded to “limited” power null, as characters can still use their powers after the fact, and Yogiri can only nullify a very small number of attacks.
  • There were scans and evidence that show he can kill/remove power of others and/or powers source. I think the evidence was mentioned here above as well.

Causality Manipulation

This comes from this set of scans. The general gist is “nobody knows the cause of death when Yogiri uses his powers, so obviously there is no cause and Yogiri can ignore causality”. I don’t need to explain this. This is like saying sudden infant death syndrome is causality hax.

Law Manipulation/Subjective Reality/Existence Erasure

First, the easy one. This scan shows Yogiri killing a pocket dimension with different rules. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out that destroying a reality with altered laws doesn’t mean you have law manipulation.
  • Not just that, he made a door open that was protected by a rule that required nine keys to open it; it is the same scan. I don't see why you removed it. Rules in the scan show they could limit beings like gods, like preventing them from flying.
For the other scan… for starters, this feat was performed while he was in his 2nd gate, so idk why this is in the 1st gate key. Even then, killing momentum is just physics manipulation, not really law manipulation despite the two tending to overlap some (he even has physics manipulation in his 2nd key for this reason). Saying that he “kills phenomena” is interesting, but so little extra context is given to that statement that it seems to be a reach to say that he can kill universal laws or whatever. As for SR, saying that what lives and what dies is up to his perception is just saying that he can kill things with a thought, or just decide who lives and who dies. It isn’t turning imagination into reality or whatever.


EDIT: More evidence has been provided, showing that Yogiri decides what death is. I am currently neutral on the ability.


As for EE, it’s either incorrectly lumped in with these abilities, or has no scans at all. Either justify it with something else, or it goes.

EDIT: EE is, imo, fine to stay as a 'limited' rating as Yogiri can erase ghosts due to how they interact with his ability.
Limited Invulnerability

“While wearing this outfit, projectiles moved unnaturally to avoid Yogiri, fireball magic dissipated on itself and an attack from a greatsword bounced off Yogiri's coat, leaving him completely unharmed. Though attacks that exceed its durability seemingly could still harm Yogiri”

do i really need to explain this one
  • It can probably be removed and just be stated as having higher durability.

Resistance to Probability Manipulation
He killed someone who has an ability that lets them dodge anything. That’s it. Considering his ability is “just kill shit without attacking them”, this doesn’t seem to require a “resistance” of any kind.
  • It seems like semantics or nebulousness on the attack point. LN makes it clearer that there is 100% evasion is Nina's ability which included attack like standard instant death in the verse: https://gyazo.com/442e97b8489610f6cb87f77493615a1e. Instant Death attack in the verse is largely nothing special and also a no contact death attack similar to Yogiri by just saying die: https://gyazo.com/deb7d2a2f133319c97d5610134ab6342. Even then, in a case where instant death can be bypassed: https://gyazo.com/d72ed4d0463dbe7b03e537d013e008a
  • I saw power nullification mentioned for the case, but it doesn't have to be it either since Yogiri's power nullification is largely described in detail when it happens in the series.
  • I think it could be resistance negation evidence since it is undodgable even with a 100% chance of missing, if resistance has to be removed.
Resistance to Sealing

Destroying an object that’s been sealed doesn’t really give you any resistance to being sealed yourself. Just lump this in with his power null.
  • I mean, they were in a location that was sealed, where no one could leave or enter. I guess it could be more evidence of power nullification.
Resistance to Power Bestowal

Yogiri is one of a few people who was not installed with the Battle Song system. However, it’s just an inherent flaw of the program that it sometimes doesn’t have compatibility with a user, so it’s not resistance on Yogiri’s end.
  • The context was that it was dangerous, so it wasn't given to Yogiri. It probably can be put under power nullification

It is late for me, but I will try to add evidence like a scan later. I kind of want to point out that scans can be found on the old thread, where changes posted were shown on Yogiri's history and on the page feat.
 
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Elizhaa said:
Curse Manipulation
Yogiri is able to use his death manipulation on a delay. That isn’t really a curse so much as it is him holding back, as he himself puts it. This is less of a power and more of a separate use of an existing power.
  • Narrative call it be able to work as a curse, and the evidence is posted in the thread; by the definition of the page, the ability is correct, so I don't see the reason to remove it.
Click to expand...
Funny is that it is even listed in the curse manipulation
  • Pain Manipulation: Many curses were created with the intention of torturing the target, allowing them to induce the sensation of agony in a target at will.
Click to expand...
 
Elizhaa said:
Narrative call it be able to work as a curse, and the evidence is posted in the thread; by the definition of the page, the ability is correct, so I don't see the reason to remove it.
Click to expand...
Personally, I don't see it as prudent to call it curse manipulation if it's just "his bog standard death manip on a time delay." It's not solely a matter of whether it could be technically correct, but the best and most faithful characterization of his abilities IMO. This seems like adding an ability just to add one.

Elizhaa said:
Click to expand...
Which sentence suggests he created a cursed video that kills people? From reading it, the impression I got was that he can kill anyone who sees him. It just so happens that this applies even through indirect visuals like pictures and videos. That's not technology manip. Like they say in the scan "something out there is determining who has become aware of him, that can peak into the minds of humans. "

He didn't affect the video, or any technology, something out there can just tell when a being has become aware of him (such as through a video, or seeing him directly) and then they are killed.

Elizhaa said:
It was also described as transcending cause and effect
Click to expand...
Im fine with this, then.

Elizhaa said:
I think it could be resistance negation evidence since it is undodgable even with a 100% chance of missing, if resistance has to be removed.
Click to expand...
As long as we aren't characterizing it as probability manip or resistance to it, that's fine. If we profiled the character with the 100% chance of missing, I would strongly disagree with calling that probability manip absent of further context, so similarly it shouldn't be resisting it for Yogiri.
 
Deagonx said:
Personally, I don't see it as prudent to call it curse manipulation if it's just "his bog standard death manip on a time delay." It's not solely a matter of whether it could be technically correct, but the best and most faithful characterization of his abilities IMO. This seems like adding an ability just to add one.
Click to expand...
It literally falls under possible uses. I don't see why we need explicit feats for this. It should not be like jujutsu kaisen. Someone adding a curse (in this instance “delay to death”) is actually curse manipulation.
 
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