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Yeah, that's why I edited my comment. Also it's pre-cog anyways so it being MHS+ would be weird.
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Insomniac Spidey stat change
- Thread starter Golden_Void
- Start date
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- #42
Bruh, a whole page went by 
I wasn't gone THAT long
Scrolling through some of the arguments and responding:
Spidey needing to pay attention to an attack directly opposes the function of Spider-Sense.
Anything AP-related is mostly irrelevant
Electro's bio states he stores that much, meaning he would have to release all of that electricity in a single blast to still be far less powerful than lightning. And we don't know anything about the amps to give us a better guess.
How are we going to rate his precog in the speed section?
I wasn't gone THAT longScrolling through some of the arguments and responding:
Spidey needing to pay attention to an attack directly opposes the function of Spider-Sense.
Anything AP-related is mostly irrelevant
Electro's bio states he stores that much, meaning he would have to release all of that electricity in a single blast to still be far less powerful than lightning. And we don't know anything about the amps to give us a better guess.
How are we going to rate his precog in the speed section?
Tomfer
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His precog shouldn't have any set speed IMO.
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higher with spider sense?
He'd be at Mach 0.86 normally so that's 1.16x away from baseline transonic, we could probably just do Subsonic+, Transonic with spider sense but then again it is precog so maybe not?
Jason_Courne
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Spider-Sense in Insomniac works weirdly different from other stories, where it's both a warning for future attacks and increase in reaction speed. So it should be treated as "Higher via Spider-Sense" with the extrasensory perception being noted as well
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It implies Spider-sense is a speed boost when it just gives him an earlier window to dodge an attack he might have had questionable reactions to. I think that's evident in the way the game shows the ability, where white is a perfect spider-sense that potentially makes the player react before an attack travels, and red where it's far too late for you to react without damage.
The difference between those is time, not speed. Meaning, take two parallel SM, one reacts at white and the other at red, the one at red would essentially expose his true reactions after a shot has already been fired. The white might have been a dodge as soon as the trigger was pulled.
Your calc here highlights my issue: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dalesean027/Insomniac_Spider-Man_Dodges_gunfire
Peter jumps before a single shot is fired, and as a result, they all missed.
Also, this calculation doesn't take into account that Sandman threw Miles that far in the first place; it isn't a feat for Miles really. Miles redirected his kinetic energy back to him via the webs, which also means that due to air resistance and time decay, Sandman threw Miles far faster than what the feat calculates. However, this is an obvious feat for subsonic+ reactions at a minimum.
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However though in the frame by frame this specifc bit of motion is still moving in tandem with the travel of bullet through the air, he's not like having only twitch movement in comparison. Kinda the same deal for the helicopter feat, even tho he already starts his motion he makes adjustments mid air and still moves in tandem with the gunfire itself
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- #49
Are you talking about the shell casings? Because I don't see any visible bullets. As for the helicopter, the first bullet already made it across the room before his second foot left the ground. Are you talking about him spinning in a hail of bullets and not getting swiss cheesed?
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yeah but the point is his motion is still very visible comparable to the bullets. It's literally all how a subsonic should look in comparison to supersonic~supersonic+ bullets
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- #51
Gotcha.
I get what you're saying. Why not compare the speed difference between the slow-mo and restored speed then find Peter's speed using the multiplier, similar to the first one?
Also, my main point was that Spidey-Sense isn't a speed boost; he just pre-dodges. Whether or not he moves with notable speed when compared to bullets wasn't my original argument. I'm not denying he can move that fast, except for the Miles one which uses Sandman's KE, not his own speed.
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Yeah that's fine I'm fine with it not getting a speed rating, understandable too we'll just use that for reactions
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,362
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You forgot about the blue perfect dodge mechanic where it literally causes everything to slow down when timed right.
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- #54
Idk about this. It's only white in cutscenes, and I'm pretty sure it's only in SM1, as it does something different in SMMM and is gone entirely in SM2. And it isn't stated by how much.
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Bump
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Bump
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Was this ever applied?
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No but its accepted I believe already, the values just need to be changed to like subsonic+
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- #59
He has subsonic+ speed, as far as reactions, idk. Maybe there's something to be gained from scaling to Shocker, but none of the electricity stuff can be used for scaling.
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- #60
Bump
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What's left here
Jason_Courne
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Wait I found a calculation that puts Spider-Man reacting to Electro's man made electricity at High Hypersonic, I'm going to upload an blog for it
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That calc does not work, I'll explain when im off work
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the distance Spiderman travels is fine itself but its the distance from Electro that doesn't work here as he's shown in 2 shots to be pretty damn far away from Spider-Man so he's got a lot more time to get out of the binds and react more than what the calc has here.
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Low end electricity speed:
56.7250188m/556m/s = 0.102023415s
1.4555m/0.102023415s =14.2663329m/s (Superhuman)
Mid end electricity speed: 1.4555/56.7250188*((4000+556)/2) = 58.4509105531m/s (Superhuman)
High end electricity speed: 1.4555/56.7250188*4000 = 102.635488241m/s (Subsonic)
Regardless though the other problem with the original method is that it gets Spider-Man's speed FAR faster than what Electro's lightning given the results which would kinda fall into the problems of that one evading punch rule which will create circular scaling since that'd clear be outlierish due to Peter being faster than Electro's blast which should be faster than himself. Also while you could argue that like a second or so passes of Peter struggling that would clearly be cinematic time due to even at its very lowest it needing to only take 0.102023415s for the electricity to hit him. There's just now way this works with the original method since even visually Electro's lightning is very clearly much faster than Peter's on screen movement consistently
Jason_Courne
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That assumes Spidey began dodging immediately after Electro fired his attack, when he still had to break out of the bonds and visually moves in tandem with the electricity as it passes POV
But for different methods of calculations, what about using a slow motion formula instead?
It'd be more accurate to compare their apparent speeds rather than the entire distance moved as the Lightning had more time to move compared to Peter
Peter travels that distance in 3 frames, at 30 fps or 1.45/(3/30) = 14.5 m/s apparent speed
The electricity travels that speed in 28 frames, at 30 fps or 56.73/(28/30) = 60.78 m/s apparent speed
Low end: 556*14.5/60.78 = 132 m/s real speed
Mid end: (4000+556)*.5*14.5/60.78 = 543 m/s real speed
High end: 4000*14.5/60.78 = 954 m/s real speed
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this is actually a better method for this feat specifically. I don't see anything really though to justify the High-End since even at its very very most if he's at 100% at his maximum capacity and unleashes everything at once his max voltage is anywhere from 10x to 300x less than your average lightnings voltage given the statement but coincidentally the 1 million volt number for his peak lines up with the higher end voltage of a Tesla Coil, so I'd say playing it safe the mid end works here since we know he didn't like expend ALL of his energy into that singular shot
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I still think that speed disagrees with 99% of his other feats, even the low end. Black suit Peter had to shield himself from rockets rather than dodge at close range, which would be a far slower feat than dodging electricity. The apparent speeds seem far more accurate than to assume the electricity takes 1+ seconds to cross a distance under 100m at mach speeds.
Jason_Courne
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I think the verse very clearly portrays itself as far more technologically advanced than us, so no reason to believe those rockets can't be traveling at Supersonic speeds or smth
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eh I don't think we can make an assumption of a higher end off that alone, even just regular bullets generally outspeed him by a decent degree
the low end is actually pretty consistent given that its only 130ish m/s, it aligns with the 121m/s from my other calc. The mid end however is a lot higher than anything else we see here in either game with Spider-Man 2 having the 230ishm/s launching speed so that is over 2x that speed but we'd have to kinda determine ig what's best here then either way though the low and mid ends work better mathematically and the high end wouldn't really work ever.
We could do it as Subsonic+ possibly/likey Supersonic
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I agree with this, also, is there a calc for the web launch and slingshot launch?
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Insomniac Spider-Man Launch speed
vsbattles.fandom.com
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- #72
Anything fuel-propelled will not move faster than electricity, considering it needs to ignite and accelerate to max speeds.
This was what I was telling you about. This is a feat for Sandman because Miles essentially redirects the energy of Sandman's throw KE using the elasticity of the webs. He didn't create all the energy used here.This was it, its actually 296m/s looking at it again from the launching that's a 1.8x speed difference from that and the current calc but otherwise his standard bullet dodge here was only 121m/s which is like about a 4.5x speed differenceInsomniac Spider-Man Launch speed
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Yeah we got that sorted already but Miles did still react to oncoming attacks fresh out of this launch so it does at least scale to reactions and maybe max launch speed
Jason_Courne
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_missiles_of_the_United_States_military, like yeah I'm obviously exaggerating, but the universe is clearly a more advanced than ours, and the mere existence of Spider-Man in the verse makes it objectively stronger than real life
Also that's a giant example of plot induced stupidity as the first game has dodging rockets as part of the tutorial level, where Peter definitely web zips way faster than rockets, nearly/over 2x faster via video frames (This one is slower but within Transonic range)
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For reactions yeah, since two objects approaching at relative velocity is the sum of their speeds (factoring deacceleration, etc). Max launch speed can be quantified using any distance and a waypoint on the map to show the meters.
Hand-held rockets are generally subsonic. We would also be assuming that generic aircraft casually have high-hypersonic missiles in rocket pods.
Jason_Courne
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Not really those are mostly just anti tank rocket launchers. The vast majority of MANPADs are Supersonic, with the rocket launchers in game aligning closer to Anti Air weaponry. They are implied to be air defense rocket launchers, preventing any police choppers from getting in close. Visually they look similar, not only in the gun's design, but also in the sleeker and slimmer missiles themselves. And the heat seeking guidance allowing rockets to swerve mid air.
But like I'm trying to say is, if a character is faster than real life weaponry, but in universe weaponry can tag them. The in universe weaponry is just faster than real life
And also the Black suit anti-feat was just massive plot induced stupidity, as even in the first game's tutorial, Peter is shown webzipping way faster than the rockets
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It doesn't mean that they're laser-guided/G-A missiles, and even if they were, I'm almost fairly certain they can't lock on to people. A rocket at subsonic speeds is a threat to any helicopter whose main priority is to be temporarily stationary. If the person can aim, the helicopter is a sitting duck.
Spider-Man isn't comparable to any modern weaponry. Your lowest rating from that calc essentially gives him near 300mph combat speed, which conflicts with a lot of plot events.
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Jason_Courne
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I mean the very similar rocket and launcher design, heat seeking properties, implied anti-air capabilities. Some can lock on to people. Counterpoint, if a person can fly a helicopter, you aren't hitting them without an Anti Air missile
Not really when both games make it a trivial point of dodging gunfire and rockets and there are quick time events that amount to "See this? Dodge it" around rockets
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I'd see my earlier points here.
The main point is that no reason or evidence suggests these goons are shooting shoulder-fired supersonic rockets. Especially since Peter's main way of beating Shocker, who uses sound, is to pre-dodge via spider-sense long before he actually attacks.
Jason_Courne
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Aim dodging doesn't matter here because Peter is still moving in tandem with the weapons as they're fired. The projectiles are also slowed down by a massive margin
I don't know why you're using Shocker as an example, he doesn't fire soundwaves, just generic "air blasts" which could be any speed
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