Hellbeast
He/Him- 4,925
- 4,458
Introduction
So the Injustice movie was very bad, made me want to re-read the comics. I did so and noticed some discrepancies. I want to fix them. This is Part One of a several Part revision to fix the Injustice verse and it's a pretty damn big one my guys. So sit back and enjoy the ride.Attack Potency
Scaling Superman: As Good as Steel
Introductions
So currently everyone relevant in the verse is listed as Low 6-B scaling from Injustice Superman who, in turn, rocked the planet Apokalips with debilitating earthquakes in a fight with Darkseid during the third act of Injustice: Year 4. There are two problems with this, the timeframe and the current meta relying entirely upon Superman.Timeframe Blues
Firstly, while the feat itself is fine, there’s caveats we need to address first. Namely that we have no idea of a timeframe for the planet being shaken. We see the fight begin in Year Four, 21 and I’d note there’s no massive environmental damage being output initially between Uxas and the Man of Steel, obviously the AOE Fallacy would come into play here but that’s not all. We see Harley, Billy Batson and Queen Hippolyta of Themyscira escape using a Mother-Box, teleporting to the Himalayas and being shown Zeus shattering religious locales and symbols and then make contact with Wonder Woman and Batman, using the jet to fly manually to the Himalayas.Happening concurrently is the huge fight between the Dark God and Man of Steel, which is shown to have started birthing ground tremors but we don’t see any statements of the whole planet shaking until the next issue when we get DeSaad’s internal monologue. This notably takes place an unquantifiable amount of time later and we later cut to New Genesis where we first get mention of the planet being at risk from a core de-stabilization. I am, admittedly, mostly just recounting events but it’s all for a good cause. That being, to illustrate that we see several cuts over the course of the fight; far too many for us to assume the world shaking took place over a short enough period of time to just make part of their standard Attack Potency.
I’d also note that this feat is not only performed only by the combined efforts of Superman and Darkseid, but also that it’s several magnitudes above the next best feats (that a base, non Sinestro Corps Supes) scales to or performs (we’ll focus on the feats below). This, reasonably, would force us take the Apokalips feat with a much more substantial grain of salt then what we currently do. To summarize what we have here is a feat that:
- Is magnitudes above the next best feats the top tiers have (not god tiers like Trigon or Mxy)
- Is done by two, incredibly powerful characters clashing
- Is over a questionable period of time
A League of his Own
Superman is, without a doubt, the most iconic superhero of all time, period. When you think of a superhero what do you think of? The secret identities, the powers, the capes, the hope and moral fibre? All of that comes from him and the entire premise of Injustice, “what if Superman had one bad day?”, is based solely upon his role as a larger than life staple of pop culture. You might ask why I’m hyping him up so much - I’m not a huge fan of his (All Might is better lmao) so this feels weird right? The answer to that is because Injustice does the same.Injustice routinely classifies Superman as the backbone of the DC Universe, he’s the leader (in all but name) of the Justice League, is considered the most moral of them all by Batman, is the world’s most beloved hero and tragically becomes it’s greatest threat. More relevantly to our purpose, this reverence of the character also extends to his direct power. The series regularly states him to be in his own league, showing Supes as having some of the best feats under his belt and that’s not even getting into the statements for Supes having “held back” in the past.
Supes Superiority Showings
- Crushes the Lords of Chaos’ gem in his grip (Injustice: Year Zero #14)
- The J.S.A could not break it (Injustice: Year Zero #4)
- Destroys Hal’s shield in one punch (Injustice: Year One #4)
- Shatters Ares’ horn and drops him with one punch (Injustice: Year One #9)
- Punches through the Kraken’s flesh and the Kraken can hold the JL (Injustice: Year One #12)
- Recovered in seconds after Atom’s suicide attack (Injustice: Year One #32)
- This same blast knocked out Diana (Injustice: Year One #33)
- She was still comatose even a year after (Injustice: Year Two #3)
- It was unknown if she would ever wake up at one point (Injustice: Year Two #4)
- She didn’t physically heal until more then a year later (Injustice: Year Three #15)
- Absolutely memes Lobo (Injustice: Year One Annual)
- Smashes Sinestro’s construct (Injustice: Year Two #4)
- Breaks Guy Gardner’s arm (Injustice: Year Two #17)
- Punts Sinestro with a single punch (Injustice: Year Four #10)
- We see later this knocked him out (Injustice: Year Four #15)
- Drops Hermes with his Super Breath (Injustice: Year Four #10)
- Hermes could harm Flash with a physical strike (Injustice: Year Four #10)
- Catches a punch from Hercules, fights him and laterkills him (Injustice: Year Four # 12 - 13)
- Hercules drew blood from Wonder Woman with a single strike (Injustice: Year Four #12)
- Hercules was tearingthrough Hal’s power suit construct (Injustice: Year Four #12)
- He also stone-walled an attack from Hal (Injustice: Year Four #12)
- Absolutely demolishes Plastic Man’s son (Injustice: Year Four Annual)
- Catwoman claims no one on Earth can stop Superman (Injustice: Year Five #2)
- According to Bane, someone going toe to toe with Superman is rare (Injustice: Year Five #3)
- Embarrassed Parasite (Injustice: Year Five #3)
- Would have killed Flash in one punch if he didn’t move (Injustice: Year Five #27)
- Hawkman claims he’s never even seen Superman bleed before he used the Kryptonite Mace (Injustice: Year Five #32)
- Pretty easily beats Hawkmanto death after the latter loses the Kryptonite (Injustice: Year Five #32)
- Good Supes incapacitates Ares (Injustice; Chapter 1)
- Even while fighting Aquaman and Wonder Woman breaks out of “Prime” Hal’s construct (Injustice; Chapter 8)
- Alternate depiction (Injustice: Ground Zero #16)
- Harley claims Supes ran the worldbecause of his power (Injustice: Ground Zero #16)
- Disables Lex’s suit in one hit (Injustice: Chapter 9)
- His “Prime” counterpart catches Sinestro’s strike easily (Injustice; Chapter 12)
- He crushes the Helm of Fate in his hands (Injustice 2; Chapter 11)
Supes Holding Back
- Superman mentions he does not want to inflict further harm to the Kraken (Injustice: Year One #12)
- Superman mentions “no more holding back” (Injustice: Year One #12)
- Nightwing tells Clark he doesn’t need to hold back against Grundy (Injustice: Year One #16)
- Batman’s expert opinion is that Diana could kill Clark because he holds back (Injustice: Year Four #)
- Ares outright states that a Superman without restraint could not be fought by the world (Injustice: Year One #)
- Likely referring to governments but you could argue this applies to superhumans within the world as well
- Supes is willing to do “whatever it takes” in the Tower of Fate fight compared to Year One (Injustice: Year Three #17)
- Supes initially held back against Diana in their fight (Injustice: Year Four #9)
- Diana’s statement in the latter scan could be taken as proof he regularly holds back
- Supes is mentioned as being more “unrestrained” then in the past by Darkseid (someone who’s fought Supes before) (Injustice: Year Four #22)
- Supes claims he held back in the past (Injustice; Chapter 9)
- Alternate depiction of this scene (Injustice: Ground Zero #17)
- He implies he used to hold back before Joker (Injustice 2; Chapter 9)
Changing the Scale
Introduction
All of the above is pretty solid evidence that the meta we’re using for the Injustice verse is out of whack and and out of order - what do we do? To fix the verse we need to establish scaling chains for the different classes of characters, gather alternative feats for them and see if we can get calculations for them. Luckily not everyone is exempt from Supes scaling, there’s a decent amount of characters who’d have a strong case.Supergirl is a fellow Kryptonian with her emergence treated as a significant event and she outright defeats him in combat during the second game, able to pretty easily spar with Wonder Woman (as a rookie to boot) and was capable of shattering chains that bound Ares. The War God even outright claims she’s the only one who can successfully battle the A.M.A.Z.O android. Upon a similar vein is Superman’s clone, Bizarro who should be biologically indistinct from him and was able to fight the High Councillor quite evenly. This, in turn, leads us to the slayer of Bizarro, Doomsday, the Kryptonian monster is able to crush Bizarro’s skull, is said to be one of the few capable of “giving as good as he gets” from Supes, is considered by Kal one of his most dangerous enemies (it’s his Fear induced illusion in Year One) and is implied to have nearly killed the Man of Steel by Lex (referencing the Death of Superman). This is also ignoring the S.T.A.R Labs missions (of questionable canonicity to be quite fair) calling Doomsday one of the most powerful villains on Earth alongside Adam and Grundy. A.M.A.Z.O should likely also scale based on him dominating both the Insurgents and Regime Remnant before Supergirl’s arrival and being stated by Ares as being beyond Diana’s ability to combat as well as his brutal domination of General Zod.
Top Tiers
- Supes is mentioned to have moved a moon (Injustice: Year Zero #14)
- Supes recovers from Captain Atom’s attack (Injustice: Year One #)
- Captain Atom has more power then 10 nukes and can destroy the North Pole (Injustice: Year One #32)
- Supes craters the Moon with Sinestro’s body (Injustice: Year Two #4)
- Supes survives the Watchtower blowing up (Injustice; Chapter 8)
- This explosion could be seen from Earth (Injustice: Ground Zero #18)
- Amazo destroys a part of Delhi, creating a huge crater (Injustice 2 #44)
- Alternate view (Injustice 2 #46)
- Supergirl smashes Amazo into the moon (Injustice 2 #47)
- This is shown to have made a crater (Injustice 2 #48)
- This could be taken as a showing of the crater’s height, note the background (Injustice 2 #48)
Mid Tiers
- A Lantern Ring is “the greatest weapon in the universe” which could scale them to nukes (Injustice: Year One #4)
- Wonder Woman oneshots a tank (Injustice: Year One #9)
- Grundy punches Diana through walls (Injustice: Year One #16)
- Lobo destroys a sewer ceiling (Injustice: Year One Annual)
- Pill Harley recovers from smashing through an office roof (Injustice: Year One Annual)
- Pill Harley smashes through building walls (Injustice: Year One Annual)
- Green Lantern Sinestro smashes a building with his construct (Injustice: Year Two #7)
- A bunch of GL’s and Kilowog tanka satellite blast (Injustice: Year Two #9)
- Thismakes a hugecrater (Injustice: Year Two #10)
- Despero falls through several floors (Injustice: Year Two #15)
- Yellow Lanterns reduce people to skeletons (This might be Supes) (Injustice: Year Three #1)
- Green Lanterns falling took out whole buildings and did massive collateral(Injustice: Year Three #1)
- Depiction of Rose Constantine’s house after this (Injustice: Year Three #1)
- Ares just swats Yellow Lantern (Injustice: Year Three #16)
- Wonder Woman punches Sinestro through a wall (Injustice: Year Three #16)
- View of hole (Injustice: Year Three #16)
- Shazam and Hercules punching shifts the ground (Injustice: Year Four #13)
- Shazam craters the ground saying Hercules doesn’t deserve his H (Injustice: Year Four #13)
- Sinestro cracks the ground and sends cars flying by flexing (Injustice: Year Four #15)
- Poseidon makes a wave(Injustice: Year Four #17)
- This is later said by Bruce to be “a thousand feet high” (Injustice: Year Four #18)
- Alternate view of the water (Injustice: Year Four #18)
- Hera vaporizes Artemis (Injustice: Year Four #23)
- Shazam sends Harley Quinn into the pavement (Injustice: Year Five #22)
- We see a large amount of damage from this (Injustice: Year Five #22)
- Sinestro has created a huge tower construct (Injustice: Year Five #22)
- Another view (Injustice: Year Five #29)
- Flash survives Deathstroke’s explosion (Injustice; Chapter 7)
- Same explosion here (Injustice: Ground Zero #17)
- Black Adam turns a man to a skeleton (Injustice 2 #12)
- Adam smashed through tanks together, disabling them (Injustice 2 #12)
- Aqualad floods D.C with a huge wave (Injustice 2 #24)
- Nubia survives being smashed through a wall by Supergirl (Injustice 2 #31)
- Mech suit Batman hits Zod hard enough to tear up ice (Injustice 2 #39)
- Booster Gold gets sent flying through multiple skyscrapers (Injustice 2 #47)
- Soranik sends Sinestro threw a concrete wall (Injustice 2 #54)
- View of hole (Injustice 2 #54)
- Red Lanterns level building (Injustice 2 #54)
- This may have been multiple Lanterns (Injustice 2 #54)
- Lobo’s bike blows stuff up (Injustice 2 #57)
- Firestorm is stated to be able to nuke Metropolis with a certain attack (Injustice 2; Chapter 6)
Speed
Movement Memery
So currently everyone is Massively FTL+ based off Superman travelling to Apokalips in Year Four and the assorted Lanterns being able to cross vast swaths of the galaxy in a limited amount of time. This is fine but then we have to realize a change in policy. Because of recent staff rulings, movement speed does not necessarily equal combat or reaction speed (especially in the context of interstellar travel). We need to have characters actively making maneuvers or reacting in real time during their flight and, unfortunately, we have no instances of this actively being the case in Injustice, making the ratings questionable.The Massively FTL+ feats do have their place though, they’re definitely fine to keep for movement speed but we shouldn’t be using this as anything else. So that means the current justifications leave the combat speed and reactions feats completely null and void, a huge problem for the verse.
Finding Fast
Introduction
Clearly we need to find replacement feats for the cast but luckily we have plenty, below you will find a list for the assorted tiers of characters. The top tiers being Superman and Flash (Barry Allen) who are actively treated as the fastest with the best feats and the mid tiers being the metahumans who aren’t named Superman and Flash.Top Tiers
- Flash searches “every inch of Metropolis” (Injustice: Year One #2)
- Supes and Flash speak in “flashtime” (Injustice Year 1: #24)
- Supes and Flash race around the world (Injustice; Flash Mission 34)
- Supes flies to the Watchtower (Injustice; Chapter 8)
- Superman flies from orbit to Earth in about 20 seconds (Injustice; Chapter 9)
- Flash runs from the north pole and navigates at hyperspeed (Injustice; Chapter 10)
- Alternate depiction (Injustice: Ground Zero #21)
- Flash steals a company’s firearms from them in seven seconds (Injustice; Chapter 10)
- A.M.A.Z.O flies to the Arctic (Injustice 2 #39)
- Timeframe unknown but quick since the order is given during the fight and he arrives soon after (Injustice 2 #39)
- Barry saves people in multiple trips from a falling building (Injustice 2 #45)
- Supergirl takes A.M.A.Z.O from New Delhito the upper atmosphere (Injustice 2 #47)
- They hit the Moon soon after (Injustice 2 #47)
- Next issue is called “Dark Side of the Moon” which could imply that’s the side they landed on (Injustice 2 #48)
- Later outright confirmed lmao (Injustice 2 #48)
- Flash sees bullets in slow motion (Injustice 2; Chapter 4)
Mid Tiers
- Diana flies to the upper atmosphere in two seconds (Injustice: Year Four #23)
- “Prime” Green Lantern blocks lightning with wall construct (Injustice; Chapter 9)
- Jaime flies from New Delhi to the Dark Side of the Moon (Injustice 2 #48)
- This takes about 10 pages
- Firestorm reacts to Adam’s lightning (Injustice 2; Chapter 6)
- Wonder Woman casually deflects bullets (Injustice 2; Chapter 8)
In Summation:
- Superman needs his tier changed
- Most of the verse needs to scale to their own feats rather then Superman (this depends on character)
- Supes needs his Massively FTL+ as just movement speed rather then Combat or Reactions
Last edited: