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Hellbeast

He/Him
4,925
4,458

Introduction​

So the Injustice movie was very bad, made me want to re-read the comics. I did so and noticed some discrepancies. I want to fix them. This is Part One of a several Part revision to fix the Injustice verse and it's a pretty damn big one my guys. So sit back and enjoy the ride.

Attack Potency​

Scaling Superman: As Good as Steel​

Introductions​

So currently everyone relevant in the verse is listed as Low 6-B scaling from Injustice Superman who, in turn, rocked the planet Apokalips with debilitating earthquakes in a fight with Darkseid during the third act of Injustice: Year 4. There are two problems with this, the timeframe and the current meta relying entirely upon Superman.

Timeframe Blues​

Firstly, while the feat itself is fine, there’s caveats we need to address first. Namely that we have no idea of a timeframe for the planet being shaken. We see the fight begin in Year Four, 21 and I’d note there’s no massive environmental damage being output initially between Uxas and the Man of Steel, obviously the AOE Fallacy would come into play here but that’s not all. We see Harley, Billy Batson and Queen Hippolyta of Themyscira escape using a Mother-Box, teleporting to the Himalayas and being shown Zeus shattering religious locales and symbols and then make contact with Wonder Woman and Batman, using the jet to fly manually to the Himalayas.

Happening concurrently is the huge fight between the Dark God and Man of Steel, which is shown to have started birthing ground tremors but we don’t see any statements of the whole planet shaking until the next issue when we get DeSaad’s internal monologue. This notably takes place an unquantifiable amount of time later and we later cut to New Genesis where we first get mention of the planet being at risk from a core de-stabilization. I am, admittedly, mostly just recounting events but it’s all for a good cause. That being, to illustrate that we see several cuts over the course of the fight; far too many for us to assume the world shaking took place over a short enough period of time to just make part of their standard Attack Potency.

I’d also note that this feat is not only performed only by the combined efforts of Superman and Darkseid, but also that it’s several magnitudes above the next best feats (that a base, non Sinestro Corps Supes) scales to or performs (we’ll focus on the feats below). This, reasonably, would force us take the Apokalips feat with a much more substantial grain of salt then what we currently do. To summarize what we have here is a feat that:
  • Is magnitudes above the next best feats the top tiers have (not god tiers like Trigon or Mxy)
  • Is done by two, incredibly powerful characters clashing
  • Is over a questionable period of time
There’s just far too many holes within the feat itself for it to be anything to base a tiering on. At most we could rework it into being part of a “likely far higher” justification but that’s up to the discretion of the community and its staff (I’d note Batman mentions him shifting a moon so we could use that). You might be asking what this puts the verse at but I’d advise holding your questions to the end since this neatly leans to our next topic.

A League of his Own​

Superman is, without a doubt, the most iconic superhero of all time, period. When you think of a superhero what do you think of? The secret identities, the powers, the capes, the hope and moral fibre? All of that comes from him and the entire premise of Injustice, “what if Superman had one bad day?”, is based solely upon his role as a larger than life staple of pop culture. You might ask why I’m hyping him up so much - I’m not a huge fan of his (All Might is better lmao) so this feels weird right? The answer to that is because Injustice does the same.

Injustice routinely classifies Superman as the backbone of the DC Universe, he’s the leader (in all but name) of the Justice League, is considered the most moral of them all by Batman, is the world’s most beloved hero and tragically becomes it’s greatest threat. More relevantly to our purpose, this reverence of the character also extends to his direct power. The series regularly states him to be in his own league, showing Supes as having some of the best feats under his belt and that’s not even getting into the statements for Supes having “held back” in the past.

Supes Superiority Showings​

Supes Holding Back​

Changing the Scale​

Introduction​

All of the above is pretty solid evidence that the meta we’re using for the Injustice verse is out of whack and and out of order - what do we do? To fix the verse we need to establish scaling chains for the different classes of characters, gather alternative feats for them and see if we can get calculations for them. Luckily not everyone is exempt from Supes scaling, there’s a decent amount of characters who’d have a strong case.

Supergirl is a fellow Kryptonian with her emergence treated as a significant event and she outright defeats him in combat during the second game, able to pretty easily spar with Wonder Woman (as a rookie to boot) and was capable of shattering chains that bound Ares. The War God even outright claims she’s the only one who can successfully battle the A.M.A.Z.O android. Upon a similar vein is Superman’s clone, Bizarro who should be biologically indistinct from him and was able to fight the High Councillor quite evenly. This, in turn, leads us to the slayer of Bizarro, Doomsday, the Kryptonian monster is able to crush Bizarro’s skull, is said to be one of the few capable of “giving as good as he gets” from Supes, is considered by Kal one of his most dangerous enemies (it’s his Fear induced illusion in Year One) and is implied to have nearly killed the Man of Steel by Lex (referencing the Death of Superman). This is also ignoring the S.T.A.R Labs missions (of questionable canonicity to be quite fair) calling Doomsday one of the most powerful villains on Earth alongside Adam and Grundy. A.M.A.Z.O should likely also scale based on him dominating both the Insurgents and Regime Remnant before Supergirl’s arrival and being stated by Ares as being beyond Diana’s ability to combat as well as his brutal domination of General Zod.

Top Tiers​

Mid Tiers​

Speed​

Movement Memery​

So currently everyone is Massively FTL+ based off Superman travelling to Apokalips in Year Four and the assorted Lanterns being able to cross vast swaths of the galaxy in a limited amount of time. This is fine but then we have to realize a change in policy. Because of recent staff rulings, movement speed does not necessarily equal combat or reaction speed (especially in the context of interstellar travel). We need to have characters actively making maneuvers or reacting in real time during their flight and, unfortunately, we have no instances of this actively being the case in Injustice, making the ratings questionable.

The Massively FTL+ feats do have their place though, they’re definitely fine to keep for movement speed but we shouldn’t be using this as anything else. So that means the current justifications leave the combat speed and reactions feats completely null and void, a huge problem for the verse.

Finding Fast​

Introduction​

Clearly we need to find replacement feats for the cast but luckily we have plenty, below you will find a list for the assorted tiers of characters. The top tiers being Superman and Flash (Barry Allen) who are actively treated as the fastest with the best feats and the mid tiers being the metahumans who aren’t named Superman and Flash.

Top Tiers​

Mid Tiers​

In Summation:​

  • Superman needs his tier changed
  • Most of the verse needs to scale to their own feats rather then Superman (this depends on character)
  • Supes needs his Massively FTL+ as just movement speed rather then Combat or Reactions
 
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Btw, I think anyone who takes the pills should be "At Most", instead of outright scaling to a Tier, seeing how Reene Montoya ate multiple pills to combat Supes and Supes still contended while holding back. Alfred harming Supes might be due to Supes going through a breakdown of realizing what he has started to become.
 
Injustice scaling was iffy to me, so agreed with all points here. Shame I don't remember a lot about the Injustice comics anymore but I trust the evidence and the points you make here.
 
For lifting strength we also need to get Atlantis calced in some capacity. The moon thing is also unfortunately to vague to use outside of supporting evidence. Though maybe we could use Mars's moons for something idk.

The Supergirl feat is probably good to use for the top tiers, though the crater is so shallow that you'd get more for the KE of the rocks than the impact itself.
 
I had kind of figured this as Injustice like many other spinoff adaptations of DC comics tends to not be consistent with the Post-Crisis or Post-Flashpoint portrayal of Superman where most of the other Justice League Superheroes are just as strong and fast as he is. And more like various animated, live action, adaptations and to some extent Pre-Crisis where Superman actually is top dog around the team. To to further expand upon this, the Kryptonian pill is one of the key fundamentals to elaborate on the gaps. It is said that everyone; from Street fighters like Batman and other metahumans like Wonder Woman have taken the pill and multiplied their strength and reflexes to even have a chance to keep up with Superman. And even then, Superman is still considered the strongest to the point where either Kryptonite or another Superman was the only way to stop him. If there are other non kryptonians who would scale, it at best is the pill exclusive key. Though, Superman moving the moon is likely an even better feat than the Apokolips shaking feat. And there are ways to think of the initial feat as a lowball, given it could be much larger than Earth. Though, the timeframe and Darkseid needing to take half the credit still stands.

As for speed, I recall that Supergirl has a Massively FTL speed feat in which she like almost instantly does a U-turn around the sun while maintaining the same speed. That could scale to he combat speed. And I agree all those mid tiers and especially the Peak Humans are going to need a downgrade and a search for their own seperate feats.
 
Post-Crisis or Post-Flashpoint portrayal of Superman where most of the other Justice League Superheroes are just as strong and fast as he is.
I wouldn't say that. I can think of plenty of instances in both Post-Crisis and Post-Flashpoint where it's heavily implied or stated that Superman could body most of the League if he really wanted to.
 
to further expand upon this, the Kryptonian pill is one of the key fundamentals to elaborate on the gaps. It is said that everyone; from Street fighters like Batman and other metahumans like Wonder Woman have taken the pill and multiplied their strength and reflexes to even have a chance to keep up with Superman. And even then, Superman is still considered the strongest to the point where either Kryptonite or another Superman was the only way to stop him. If there are other non kryptonians who would scale, it at best is the pill exclusive key.
I kind of have to ask, when is it mentioned Diana took the pill? Lobo is mentioned as not being affected by the pill so it seems it’s more for humans
Though, Superman moving the moon is likely an even better feat than the Apokolips shaking feat. And there are ways to think of the initial feat as a lowball, given it could be much larger than Earth. Though, the timeframe and Darkseid needing to take half the credit still stands.
Possibly, I do think it should represent a “possibly higher” but I’m unsure
As for speed, I recall that Supergirl has a Massively FTL speed feat in which she like almost instantly does a U-turn around the sun while maintaining the same speed. That could scale to he combat speed. And I agree all those mid tiers and especially the Peak Humans are going to need a downgrade and a search for their own seperate feats.
Speed comes from super move sonits invalid
Also the Batman characters have their own feats but it’s a separate CRT
 
For lifting strength we also need to get Atlantis calced in some capacity.
OThe moon thing is also unfortunately to vague to use outside of supporting evidence. Though maybe we could use Mars's moons for something idk.
The Supergirl feat is probably good to use for the top tiers, though the crater is so shallow that you'd get more for the KE of the rocks than the impact itself.
Probably lol
Maybe the Delhi crater is better? I’m very curious about Bruce’s tectonic punch tbo

Just curious, but since Lobo with and without the Green Lantern ring was the same tier, shouldn't Supes as well without the Yellow ring?
No, Supes was supercharged by fear as said by Bruce and has massively higher feats
 
In fairness he always kinda bodies Sinestro
And not yet, I want an idea of which feats would be most valuable to calc firstly (since there is a lot)
 

Top Tiers​

Mid Tiers​

Speed​

Top Tiers​

Mid Tiers​

Ok, I just did a quick rundown and removed feats that are Tier 9 and Tier 8 by comparing similar feats in Reference To Common Feats. These seem to be the only feats that are calc worthy.
 
Ok, I just did a quick rundown and removed feats that are Tier 9 and Tier 8 by comparing similar feats in Reference To Common Feats. These seem to be the only feats that are calc worthy.
Superman moving the moon should be Class Z LS for him at the very least

Also blocking lightning is just MHS usually I'm pretty sure
 
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