Infinity Ultron (MCU) vs Doomguy (DOOM)

[RoTt35]

And you're saying Slayer should be able to dodge for a while to have a chance? Cause if not, it seems like a mismatch.

? I'm just saying what Ultron starts with, I don't have any knowledge of DOOM

 

[Axxtentacle]

Uh... looking at the profile, it definitely shouldn't have Deconstruction. It atomizes things by raw power, not hax. That's kinda why it's the Power Stone.

 

[ThanatosX]

Uh... looking at the profile, it definitely shouldn't have Deconstruction. It atomizes things by raw power, not hax. That's kinda why it's the Power Stone.

The power of the Infinity Gauntlet (which Infinity Ultron is able to use at it's fullest potential) wielded by Thanos was also able to atomize the Stones, which are basically indistructible with sheer AP. Also, the quote about Ronan being atomized is pretty clear cut to me, if it was by sheer AP it wouldn't use the term atomize imho.
But this isn't a revision, so it's useless to discuss this here.

 

[Axxtentacle]

The power of the Infinity Gauntlet (which Infinity Ultron is able to use at it's fullest potential) wielded by Thanos was also able to atomize the Stones, which are basically indistructible with sheer AP. Also, the quote about Ronan being atomized is pretty clear cut to me, if it was by sheer AP it wouldn't use the term atomize imho.
But this isn't a revision, so it's useless to discuss this here.

The full Gauntlet deconstructs. Not the Power Stone. It atomizes things by releasing a certain amount of energy comparable to the size of the thing being touched.

I might as well make a revision, because that's just not what is happening. Things exposed to the stone get atomized by getting destroyed by an overwhelming amount of power.

If it's a Power Stone blast, it's not deconstruction. It's just powerful blasts.

 

[ThanatosX]

The full Gauntlet deconstructs. Not the Power Stone. It atomizes things by releasing a certain amount of energy comparable to the size of the thing being touched.

I might as well make a revision, because that's just not what is happening. Things exposed to the stone get atomized by getting destroyed by an overwhelming amount of power.

If it's a Power Stone blast, it's not deconstruction. It's just powerful blasts.

I heavily disagree, but this isn't the thread for this kind of discussions. If you want you can make a revision, but I wont participate since I don't have the time nor the will to discuss in those kind of topics.
Regardless, Infinity Ultron have a huge AP advantage, to the point of one shot, so Deconstruction or not a attack from him will still instantly kill the Doomguy anyway.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I heavily disagree, but this isn't the thread for this kind of discussions. If you want you can make a revision, but I wont participate since I don't have the time nor the will to discuss in those kind of topics.
Regardless, Infinity Ultron have a huge AP advantage, to the point of one shot, so Deconstruction or not a attack from him will still instantly kill the Doomguy anyway.

I'm semi-curious about this, because the Praetor Armor is considered Invincible, even at their AP level, and didn't suffer ANY damage from his fight with Davoth. Could it overcome the Praetor suit?

 

[ThanatosX]

I'm semi-curious about this, because the Praetor Armor is considered Invincible, even at their AP level, and didn't suffer ANY damage from his fight with Davoth. Could it overcome the Praetor suit?

Well, both Doomguy and Davoth are both baseline from what I remember, meanwhile Infinity Ultron is superior to the Watcher, who is a 5 dimensional being far beyond the entirety of the MCU Multiverse, which is already Low 1-C by itself thanks to the sheer amount of Timelines existing. Basically, he is far above baseline.
Unless the armor have feats of resisting this kind of AP, than I doubt it could be able to remain intact.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Well, both Doomguy and Davoth are both baseline from what I remember, meanwhile Infinity Ultron is superior to the Watcher, who is a 5 dimensional being far beyond the entirety of the MCU Multiverse, which is already Low 1-C by itself thanks to the sheer amount of Timelines existing. Basically, he is far above baseline.
Unless the armor have feats of resisting this kind of AP, than I doubt it could be able to remain intact.

They are not. Davoth =< The Father < Resurrected Davoth < Doom Slayer <<<< Praetor Armor Durability. I can give a more detailed explanation with scans if necessary.

The Slayer can exist and fight in the vacuum of space. He did so as Doomguy, even, before the suit.

You... don't get to Low 1-C via amount of timelines. All I can see on the profile is stuff that puts him at baseline Low 1-C.

 

[ThanatosX]

You... don't get to Low 1-C via amount of timelines. All I can see on the profile is stuff that puts him at baseline Low 1-C.

You can if the amount of Timelines is uncountable infinite. Everything is already accepted and explained in the blog. This reasoning is already accepted for other verses too, like My Little Pony. And the Watcher scales completely beyond not only the Low 1-C amount of Timelines, but even the Void at the End of Time (or whatever that's called) which contains inside of itself the uncoubtably infinite amount of Timelines.
So basically it's: Totality of Timelines (baseline Low 1-C) <<<<< Void at the End of Time (contains an uncountably infinite amount of Timelines and still extends) <<<<< The Watcher and his realm (completely beyond the Multiverse) < Infinity Ultron.
And with this I have to go to bed, so I wont reply any further.

 

[Axxtentacle]

You can if the amount of Timelines is uncountable infinite. Everything is already accepted and explained in the blog. This reasoning is already accepted for other verses too, like My Little Pony. And the Watcher scales completely beyond not only the Low 1-C amount of Timelines, but even the Void at the End of Time (or whatever that's called) which contains inside of itself the uncoubtably infinite amount of Timelines.
So basically it's: Totality of Timelines (baseline Low 1-C) <<<<< Void at the End of Time (contains an uncountably infinite amount of Timelines and still extends) <<<<< The Watcher and his realm (completely beyond the Multiverse) < Infinity Ultron.
And with this I have to go to bed, so I wont reply any further.

I don't exactly see how any of this puts him THAT above Low 1-C, but i'll look into it

 

[ShionAH]

Close fight but since ultron starts with deconstruction how can Doomslayer win? Unlike Ultron he doesnt have instant win

UNLESS vega can hack Ultron. If thats the case then it would be such a ******* perfect match

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Ultron was hacked by Arnim Zola via an arrow that was flung into Ultron directly. I'm not sure if that would require a direct interface for VEGA/The Father, but I have no doubts on how easily VEGA could hack Ultron if needed.

 

[ThanatosX]

I don't exactly see how any of this puts him THAT above Low 1-C, but i'll look into it

The big problem here is that the scaling that you used in this comment:

They are not. Davoth =< The Father < Resurrected Davoth < Doom Slayer <<<< Praetor Armor Durability. I can give a more detailed explanation with scans if necessary.

Is character scaling, of characters that are also roughly close in strenght on top of that. The Father is stronger than Davoth, but by an extremely small margin. I don't remember Resurrected Davoth being said to be stronger than base Davoth or the Father, but if it's because of Samur Maykr absorbing the Father's power and he was still defeated by the Doomguy, than that would be a small margin too. While Davoth and Doomguy fought roughly equally for most of the time, with the latter being stronger by a little. The only notable scaling factor here is the Praeot Armor, which was unharmed by Davoth's attacks.
Meanwhile, what I am talking about is cosmology scaling. Obviously, cosmology scaling is much more important and notable than character scaling, which is why no matter how much a character upscale from baseline Low 2-C thanks to character scaling, it will never reach 2-C. This is a similiar case. Infinity Ultron basically scale three cosmological layers above baseline, with each of this cosmology either dwarfing or completely transcending the previous one.
The total number of Timelines is the baseline for Low 1-C thanks to them being uncountable infinite in number, and the Void at the End of Time contains this Low 1-C quantity of Timelines, while also extending infinitely. This alone would be enough to put the Void at the End of Time infinitely above baseline by what Ultima explained to me (to put it simply, destroying an infinite 5-D/6-D/7-D/etc... structure makes the character infinitely above baseline in that specific dimensionality). But the scaling goes even further, with the realm of the Watcher and the Watcher himself being far above all of this. Even just the character scaling of the Watcher < Infinity Ultron is quite impressive, since it would be Base Watcher < Full Power/Armored Watcher, and Infinity Ultron defeated the latter fairly easily the moment he started fighting seriously.
In summary, this is why Infinity Ultron scale far higher, and a good hit from him would one shot Doomguy.

 

[Eseseso]

TBH I feel that being far beyond the Low 1-C multiverse should make Uatu and Vultron 6-D, but Uatu's 5-D statement kinda kills that.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

You know that one series can have two 5D Axis? one that is separated from the other that are outside the limit

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

TBH I feel that being far beyond the Low 1-C multiverse should make Uatu and Vultron 6-D, but Uatu's 5-D statement kinda kills that.

I think it might still be possible for him to be stronger. A lower-d entity can have higher-dimensional AP, like in fiction we see a lot of 3-D humans have Low 2-C and beyond levels of strength.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Bump

 

[ShionAH]

I think VEGA might give Doomguy a big wincon here

 

[Axxtentacle]

The big problem here is that the scaling that you used in this comment:


Is character scaling, of characters that are also roughly close in strenght on top of that. The Father is stronger than Davoth, but by an extremely small margin. I don't remember Resurrected Davoth being said to be stronger than base Davoth or the Father, but if it's because of Samur Maykr absorbing the Father's power and he was still defeated by the Doomguy, than that would be a small margin too. While Davoth and Doomguy fought roughly equally for most of the time, with the latter being stronger by a little. The only notable scaling factor here is the Praeot Armor, which was unharmed by Davoth's attacks.
Meanwhile, what I am talking about is cosmology scaling. Obviously, cosmology scaling is much more important and notable than character scaling, which is why no matter how much a character upscale from baseline Low 2-C thanks to character scaling, it will never reach 2-C. This is a similiar case. Infinity Ultron basically scale three cosmological layers above baseline, with each of this cosmology either dwarfing or completely transcending the previous one.
The total number of Timelines is the baseline for Low 1-C thanks to them being uncountable infinite in number, and the Void at the End of Time contains this Low 1-C quantity of Timelines, while also extending infinitely. This alone would be enough to put the Void at the End of Time infinitely above baseline by what Ultima explained to me (to put it simply, destroying an infinite 5-D/6-D/7-D/etc... structure makes the character infinitely above baseline in that specific dimensionality). But the scaling goes even further, with the realm of the Watcher and the Watcher himself being far above all of this. Even just the character scaling of the Watcher < Infinity Ultron is quite impressive, since it would be Base Watcher < Full Power/Armored Watcher, and Infinity Ultron defeated the latter fairly easily the moment he started fighting seriously.
In summary, this is why Infinity Ultron scale far higher, and a good hit from him would one shot Doomguy.

The reason resurrected Davoth should be significantly stronger than he was, is because his power is tied directly to the size and state of Hell. The larger hell grew, the more powerful he grew. It got to the point that The Father knew he had 0 chance of stopping him if he came back to life. A guaranteed loss. The Slayer then fodderized Samur Maykr who had The Father's power, along with taking 0 damage from this stronger Davoth.

I forgot about this thread, though. I should just ask tier people how strong this character actually is.

 

[ThanatosX]

I think VEGA might give Doomguy a big wincon here

Yes, it's his main wincon. But the problem here is that he wont use it as his first move. Before even attempting to hack him, he will attack him with regular attacks like he always does, and he will go for the hack only after he realize that he can't defeat him normally. The problem is that before that Ultron will use his AoE, which will one shot Doomguy as explained previously.
In the four major fights of Ultron, he uses a huge AoE at least once for each fight, two times as his first move and two time after fighting for a bit. In most cases, Ultron will use that before Doomguy will realize he needs to hack him to win.
Not to mention that the hack itself might take a bit, considering that Zola was able to instantly destroy him only because he was sent directly in his mind throught a arrow in his eye. So the Father hacking Ultron will take longer than that. It's still a wincon, but Ultron have a far more likely and immediate wincon.

The reason resurrected Davoth should be significantly stronger than he was, is because his power is tied directly to the size and state of Hell. The larger hell grew, the more powerful he grew. It got to the point that The Father knew he had 0 chance of stopping him if he came back to life. A guaranteed loss. The Slayer then fodderized Samur Maykr who had The Father's power, along with taking 0 damage from this stronger Davoth.

I am not sure if all of this is accepted, otherwise Davoth's profile is kinda lacking considering that if the difference is so big he should have two keys (Pre Resurrection and Post Resurrection) and most of all he would need Accelerate Deevelopment if he gets stronger the more Hell becomes stronger, something that he doesn't have in his profile. I also don't remember his power being directly tied to Hell was ever stated clearly, was it said in a Codex or something? Because I vividly that it's stated that Hell is only an extension of his power, so it being a significant factor to his power growth would kinda contradicting it.
I also disagree with Doomguy fodderizing Samur. It's not like he one shot him or anything, he still had to fight him for a bit before defeating him. And, as you mentioned previously, Doomguy not taking damage against Davoth is mainly thanks to the Praetor Armor, not because he physically scale massively higher than Davoth or anything like that.
Regardless all of this discussion is kinda pointless considering that, as said before, all of this is character scaling while what I am talking about is cosmology scaling. All the character scaling of Doom starts from the Void, which is a baseline Low 1-C structure. Meanwhile, the Void at the End of Time contains within itself Low 1-C quantity of Timelines that extends infinitely inside of it, and still it extends beyond that. As Ultima explained, an infinite 5-D space is infinite above baseline, and the Watcher is beyond even that, with him still being defeated kinda easily by Infinity Ultron once he started fighting seriously.
Unless the Doom Cosmology was accepted to be above baseline in a CRT I missed (which is possible, I don't always keep up with the Doom threads despite liking the verse) then the power gap between Doomguy and Infinity Ultron AP wise can't be overcome with character scaling.

I forgot about this thread, though. I should just ask tier people how strong this character actually is.

Not sure which one of the two you asking for, but if it's Infinity Ultron I explained how strong he is in the previous comment and in this one. I was the one that pointed out how the characters should be solid Low 1-C and after that I made my own research on how much above baseline they would scale. If you don't trust me you can ask others too, but you can also read the Cosmology blog or the several revisions about it, though I would like to point out that the Watcher and by proxy Infinity Ultron being accepted as above the Cosmology was accepted fairly recently thanks to a new statement, before that they were baseline for scaling only to the total number of Timelines (which is uncountably infinite/Low 1-C).

 

[ShionAH]

Yes, it's his main wincon. But the problem here is that he wont use it as his first move. Before even attempting to hack him, he will attack him with regular attacks like he always does, and he will go for the hack only after he realize that he can't defeat him normally. The problem is that before that Ultron will use his AoE, which will one shot Doomguy as explained previously.

Wouldn't Doomguys Info Analysis make him realize the threat plus I think VEGA can do its own thing while Doomguy is still fighting. Doomguy also has AD that can take him from Tier 7 to Tier 1 would that help?

 

[ThanatosX]

Wouldn't Doomguys Info Analysis make him realize the threat plus I think VEGA can do its own thing while Doomguy is still fighting. Doomguy also has AD that can take him from Tier 7 to Tier 1 would that help?

The Information Analysis is made by Vega, and it's pretty limited considering it analyze only the general information of the opponent rather than their power and abilities. Vega scanning Infinity Ultron wont make that much of a difference.
Vega/The Father can act on his own, but it's not exactly in character to just hack something on his own, nor it's in character for him to hack in general since "Hacking" is not even listed in his P&A, it's only in the Resistence section. Unless Doomguy or the Father actively understand that they have no other way of winning, it's not something they will do immediately, nor on their own.
Lastly, Doomguy's AD is powerful, but I am pretty sure that it was discussed in a separate thread that Tier jumps are not significant when evaluating the strenght of AD (which is something that I don't entirely agree, but whatever). Regardless, AD is something that is restricted by NLF, so it would only work up to the level it demonstrated. The power gap mentioned before would still be too big to overcome it with simple AD.
Anyway, now I have to go, so I wont reply any time soon.

 

[ShionAH]

The Information Analysis is made by Vega, and it's pretty limited considering it analyze only the general information of the opponent rather than their power and abilities. Vega scanning Infinity Ultron wont make that much of a difference.

It would let Doomguy know he is stronger than him by a lot

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Bump

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Infinity Ultron could be getting 5-D hax depending on how this revision goes, but I dunno if it affects the matchup or not

 

[ShionAH]

Infinity Ultron could be getting 5-D hax depending on how this revision goes, but I dunno if it affects the matchup or not

Doomguy is 3D anyway so

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Doomguy is 3D anyway so

Ah, well then. Carry on