"in-universe statements vs. WoG from a verse that isn't masadaverse" the thread (A.K.A. I WANT OFF KEPS WILD RIDE)

[Hl3_or_bust]

some trouble has been stirred up over whether the "destroying all but 1 narritive" feat in Djkaktus proposal II is just destroying universes or actual narritives, since it mentions both narritives and universes in the same sentence.

the only problem (aside from LITERALLY everything to do with this discussion) is that with the doomsday contest in the voting phase, so we might not get too much more info on this guy, which makes this even more difficult

 

[Agnaa]

Since OP is a bit barren I'll start posting relevant quotes.

You contain the strange and anomalous because they threaten your world, but you're applying salve to symptoms. The root is entropy. Something inevitable. Something you cannot outrun, try as you might. Existence is an infinitely complex tapestry of realities, each neatly aligned above and below each other. Entropy frays the edges, and things begin to… leak through.

I have seen it. Calvin Desmet saw it, in the moment before his soul was cast into darkness. Everything you have contained because you cannot explain it comes from somewhere else, somewhere it can be explained. A different reality, one that seeps into yours. Entropy exacerbates this. Over time the borders will disappear entirely, and your world, just like all worlds, will become a pandaemonium of infinite realities competing for relevance over each other. Your world will die. All worlds will die. They will feast on each other as they suffocate and then they will die. This is not a hypothetical; it is inevitability.

Calvin did the math in the moments before he entered the void. Order cannot exist forever in a universe that lingers on disorder. One line can stretch on forever, but infinitely many lines invites chaos. Points that intersect. There is only one way to insure this world's future: remove all other worlds.

You are not expected to, because you cannot see the narratives. Calvin could see them, for a moment. Calvin saw doomsday, and Calvin reasoned a way out of it. Remove all narratives but this one, and you produce a creation of one. One universe, untarnished by the influences of others. Safe. Your loved ones protected from the encroaching darkness. Your children free to live lives that do not end in horror. An end to your perpetual struggle. An end to darkness. The freedom to live in the light.

The important question being, do these statements imply 2-A or High 1-B?

More info to come.

 

[Kepekley23]

Narrative means universe in the context of Kaktus's Proposal II.

You are not expected to, because you cannot see the narratives. Calvin could see them, for a moment. Calvin saw doomsday, and Calvin reasoned a way out of it. Remove all narratives but this one, and you produce a creation of one. One universe, untarnished by the influences of others. Safe. Your loved ones protected from the encroaching darkness. Your children free to live lives that do not end in horror. An end to your perpetual struggle. An end to darkness. The freedom to live in the light

.
As the author, Kaktus is wrong when he says narratives are used in the same context as in 3812.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Narrative means universe in the context of Kaktus's Proposal II.

You are not expected to, because you cannot see the narratives. Calvin could see them, for a moment. Calvin saw doomsday, and Calvin reasoned a way out of it. Remove all narratives but this one, and you produce a creation of one. One universe, untarnished by the influences of others. Safe. Your loved ones protected from the encroaching darkness. Your children free to live lives that do not end in horror. An end to your perpetual struggle. An end to darkness. The freedom to live in the light

.
As the author, Kaktus is wrong when he says narratives are used in the same context as in 3812.

you really seem to be leaning on that ONE quote, but what no one seems to notice is the "competing for relevancy" part just before the "Pandaemonium" bit, which is basically exactly how SCPs are given a pass to stay on the site, and the SCPs all generally seem to have their own narritive (several SCPs basically immediately end the world or are narritive tier beings to start with)

 

[Kepekley23]

Considering the fact that Calvin says they are alternate worlds, mentions removing the barriers between the realities and letting entropy have its way, the O5 mentions the realities looking at the Foundation and seeking to destroy it, the context is clearly painting them as timelines. Not spatial dimensions.

 

[Agnaa]

The WoG statement Kepekley is talking about.

I expected that, and there are certainly a lot of similarities between the two. The difference, I think, is that 3812 doesn't destroy narratives - whether it can or not is irrelevant because it doesn't ever seem interested in it.

SCP 3812 is a 1-B SCP by the same author who is 1-B for constantly ascending through "narratives", each of which perceives all lower narratives as fiction.

However, as Kepekley has said, the 001 proposal seemingly uses "realities", "universes", and "narratives" interchangeably.

By removing the barriers for all realities, all at once; save this one. Compress spacetime at the points where it is most vulnerable, and allow entropy to do the rest.

I'm not going to vote either way on this yet, I've flipped back and forth on this multiple times.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Considering the fact that Calvin says they are alternate worlds, mentions removing the barriers between the realities and letting entropy have its way, the O-5 mentions the realities looking at the Foundation and seeking to destroy it, the context is clearly painting them as timelines. Not spatial dimensions.

i never metioned spatial dimensions, plus at least a few of the O5 know that they are fictional

 

[Kepekley23]

I'm focusing on that statement because it says "narrative" = "universe" in clear words.

You're looking at SCP-3812 to discuss SCP-001, which is incorrect and leans on a WoG statement that is invalid, since it contradicts the storyline.

 

[Agnaa]

Also, Kaktus' second proposal follows another SCP into a 2-dimensional plane then ascends out of it, implying some sort of dimensional shenanigans.

This coming from the tale called Dimensions 2, 3, and Onward

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I'm focusing on that statement because it says "narrative" = "universe" in clear words.
You're looking at SCP-3812 to discuss SCP-001, which is incorrect and leans on a WoG statement that is invalid, since it contradicts the storyline.

Remove all narratives but this one, and you produce a creation of one. One universe, untarnished by the influences of others.

ok, it seems that i may have been beating a horse so dead it has ceased to exist, but the wording still makes it seem like the last narritive contains only 1 universe

 

[Kepekley23]

Seems more like hax. We know that SCP-001 is physically a non-extraordinary anomaly. Its spatial abilities are what make it dangerous.

@H3

"Remove all narratives but this one." As in, he is going to remove every single narrative and leave only one left. That narrative being the Foundation's universe, which, as I said before, counts as a narrative in the storyline.

This is the context. It's repeated several times that his goal is to wipe out all universes and leave only one behind - the Foundation's.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Seems more like hax. We know that SCP-001 is physically a non-extraordinary anomaly. Its spatial abilities are what make it dangerous.
@H3

"Remove all narratives but this one." As in, he is going to remove every single narrative and leave only one left. That narrative being the Foundation's universe, which, as I said before, counts as a narrative in the storyline.

This is the context. It's repeated several times that his goal is to wipe out all universes and leave only one behind - the Foundation's.

i'm like 1000% certain that there is more than 1 foundation across all those universes, but whatever

in regards to the D ascension thing, spatial hax seems likely, as you simple create a higher-dimensional body for yourself by contourting space in that higher dimension, although how you handle it mentally is a different problem

 

[Kepekley23]

That's not relevant to the storyline itself, since 001 specified he'd only leave 1 behind.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I still don't think narratives are really being used to describe universes.

In that phrase there's nothing that gives a direct correlation between narratives and universes. It's removing all narratives but this one, then period. The next sentence then begins describing the end state, One Universe. I'm not saying it's clear, just not certain in that interpretation.

That said, I don't think the phrase is used reliably enough in the article to count for much, so I'm going to support the idea that it doesn't stand for anything.

Therefore, we should stop trying to connect the concept of a narrative between the two unless more statements or feats contradict that one outright, and we should also stop trying to use that statement to try and discredit more clear feats that will likely come in the future.

As it stands I Support Kep I'm that it's likely just a 2-A. However I feel that's inclined to change very fast, if the author intends to add more to the story.

 

[Kepekley23]

It's stated numerous times by 001 that's he going to destroy all realities and then leave only one (the Foundation's) intact.

Therefore, when he says he is going to remove all narratives but "this one", then proceeds to describe the state of the universe he'd leave behind, it's clear that he is saying the narratives are the same as the universes

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It's stated numerous times by 001 that's he going to destroy all realities and then leave only one (the Foundation's) intact.
Therefore, when he says he is going to remove all narratives but "this one", then proceeds to describe the state of the universe he'd leave behind, it's clear that he is saying the narratives are the same as the universes

Correlation does not mean causation. In other places and tales he uses the phrase differently (Such as telling 085 "this narrative has ended"), and a contradictory author statement just makes it even more shaky. He's removing narratives and leaving a single universe, that doesn't mean narratives are universes or vice versa. There's parallel structure "This One. One Universe", but that isn't directly saying the Universe is a narrative.

That said, the argument that supports him being on 3812's level is invalid for the same reasons. I'm arguing we should ignore the statement and the author post in general because of how shaky it is, and how differently it's being interpreted, and wait until more feats and statements come.