Immeasurable attack speed for slime?, or rather more general immeasurable speed for DL's

[Jozaysmith?]

Hello, welcome back to the very "i want to shout my liver out" slime thread, an expected but not noticed upgrade, for the past 2 years ever since volume 19 came out, immeasurable speed became a thing, however we wanted to wait for the so called "official translation" now its in volume 18, but nonetheless i am not taking most scans out of volume 19 just some prescription for clearance here

What is immeasurable speed in all sense of the word?​

What can qualify for immeasurable speed?, is it being faster than infinite speed?, what this speed is, is, as described being fast enough to hit before it happens or strike before its struck so an attack coming in from the future or past is deemed immeasurable speed, which is why they decided to call it "moving through linear time" although physically

Digital lifeforms and the nature of their being​

What are digital lifeforms?, are these guys just some nitwit with that name?, or are they digits (no pun intended)
Okay to the main focus
First we have to learn about the smallest unit of existence called

Information particle​

Which is a particle that is unaffected by time and space, it can also transmit information to any point in time by physically moving

Something like going to tell your dad who has died in the past "hello" by flying an information particle
As shown in context it's called "flown out" so it's physically moving, no TP, no DT just physical movement, you can also imprint in your wish in them

Back to digital lifeforms​

Digital lifeforms are completely made out of these particles, because dagruel is a digital nature he was able to perform this, however likes of veldora
Who jumped through time and space (from one timeline to another timeline)
We would clarify the "different timelines labyrinth" fuckery in this thread too

Which i would also like too look at

The labyrinth is a multiverse​

We have clarifed this information several times however we need to be more clear
So it states that each floor is its own dimension of time and space (different time axis from the other)-all other further explanation is on the imgur

However likes of Zelanus(who is a digital lifeform) physically penetrated all dimensions
-regarding timelines, each world is also its own timeline, the past of one world could be a future of another, for example universe A just in the middle of a big bang, while Universe B was facing heat death (The end), billions of years do Universe A is probably 0.6 seconds in Universe B and so on and so forth (for information regarding slime work of art for the cosmology please read this)

In other words the attack of a digital lifeform comes from the past, the future or something else more obligue

Like velgrynd who shazamed cornu with her space-time attack
And in his own time the attack landed decades ago, in other words even before they met

So here's a TL;DR (whatever this means)/summary for what the thread brings

Summary​

Information particle transmits information to any point in time regardless of time and space(instantly)(physically too)
Digital lifeforms can use this as basis to physically move through timelines by inflicting their will into the particle and fly it to whatever or whenever they wish
Velgrynd can attack people with her space time continuous attack to hit them in a "when" situation

What this gives​

Immeasurable speed for Veldanava
Immeasurable attack speed for Velgrynd and rimuru

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Welcome to soul society

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Agree with everything, already discussed and revised this on discord multiple times with others and by myself.

 

[Incomprehensibleexistence]

Agree

 

[Tempestdragon6]

agree

 

[E6pire]

I agree

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It's very odd to me that not a single scan here actually describes physical movement through time. This scan makes no mention of such a concept; Although it does confirm information particles exceed light speed, that's hardly grounds for immeasurable (ironically, the fact that this passage is suggesting that information particles are extremely unique in their FTL speeds would also call immeasurable speed into question). This passage is a little better, but it still doesn't mention moving through time. Just that the information particles are being "flown out" somewhere.

This is 1. not immeasurable, and 2. not really a speed feat, since there's no context on how it was done. Veldora jumping between space-times is just dimensional travel, and is not a speed feat. Trying to spin this paragraph as a speed feat is also odd, because it literally says "it's unclear what happened", and there's no indication anything went so fast it traveled through time.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

okay, this will probably work, I agree

 

[Jozaysmith?]

i don't really understand what you disagree and agree with but oh well

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

i don't really understand what you disagree and agree with but oh well

I disagree with everything. None of the evidence you're posting aligns with the conclusions you're coming to.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Then just say i disagree with everything from the start and continue your day

I disagree with everything. None of the evidence you're posting aligns with the conclusions you're coming to.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Then just say i disagree with everything from the start and continue your day

Are you at least gonna respond to the post? At the very least you could do yourself a favor and read it, since if you had done so before, you would've known I disagreed from the start.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Then just say i disagree with everything from the start and continue your day

They need to post their objection though, either to get a response, or perhaps to show others that the evidence is lacking, or both.

Anyways, I'm not knowledgeable on Tensei aside from the anime (Which is pretty nice), but the evidence for immeasurable speed is pretty lacking here.

So for now, I disagree with immeasurable speed due to Fuji's reasoning, unless more compelling evidence is shown.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

They need to post their objection though, either to get a response, or perhaps to show others that the evidence is lacking, or both.

Anyways, I'm not knowledgeable on Tensei aside from the anime (Which is pretty nice), but the evidence for immeasurable speed is pretty lacking here.

So for now, I disagree with immeasurable speed due to Fuji's reasoning, unless more compelling evidence is shown.

Didn't understand what he was saying tho
One inclined scan to another
After everything have been addressed clearly and very specifically
So if there's an issue they should quote it and make direct comments on it, anyways thanks, I'll add the disagreements and agreements anyways

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Are you at least gonna respond to the post? At the very least you could do yourself a favor and read it, since if you had done so before, you would've known I disagreed from the start.

Its not clear
"This isn't that"
"This doesn't work like that"
Doesn't really add up to me, atleast quote the wordings exactly, make your very reasonable point of argument and I'll defend it

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Didn't understand what he was saying tho
One inclined scan to another
After everything have been addressed clearly and very specifically

Nothing has been addressed, though? You still haven't replied to this?

It's very odd to me that not a single scan here actually describes physical movement through time. This scan makes no mention of such a concept; Although it does confirm information particles exceed light speed, that's hardly grounds for immeasurable (ironically, the fact that this passage is suggesting that information particles are extremely unique in their FTL speeds would also call immeasurable speed into question). This passage is a little better, but it still doesn't mention moving through time. Just that the information particles are being "flown out" somewhere.

This is 1. not immeasurable, and 2. not really a speed feat, since there's no context on how it was done. Veldora jumping between space-times is just dimensional travel, and is not a speed feat. Trying to spin this paragraph as a speed feat is also odd, because it literally says "it's unclear what happened", and there's no indication anything went so fast it traveled through time.

Its not clear
"This isn't that"
"This doesn't work like that"
Doesn't really add up to me, atleast quote the wordings exactly, make your very reasonable point of argument and I'll defend it

Here it is, again.

• Being stated to be FTL is not immeasurable.
• The quote "an information particle needs to be flown out" does not imply physical movement through time, since the destination is not mentioned.
• Moving in such a way that air is not displaced is not a speed feat, since movement of any kind - even infinite and immeasurable speed - would displace mass in some fashion. The only way to do this would be via some sort of hax like intangibility or incorporeality.
• Jumping to a different space-time is not a speed feat, since that is a common euphemism for traveling between worlds (here's an example from another verse; we usually consider this a form of Dimensional Travel).
• A character being attacked several decades ago is not a speed feat. The text even says it is unknown what happened ("...it is unclear what had happened, but a scorching fire had consumed the army he had been leading").

Does this help to clarify my points, or will you still refuse to respond?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Snip

Snip

Snip

All the missing context is provided here, such as the moving across time feat, Velgrynd's attack's context and Veldora's context, hope this helps.

Sorry, took a while to combine all of them in one link, so was a few min late

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

okay, this will probably work, I agree

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Ngl i am still lost why tf is everyone assuming something faster than light is slower than presumed feat
Fuji i don't have your time lol

 

[Jozaysmith?]

The rules of the verse is simple
Nothing exceeds light speed, info particles exceeding light speed was shocking to rimuru and that same scan mentioned transporting info in 0 time
That's infinte speed however, it still transports to different timeline
I literally have 0 energy for your kind fuji, do what you want with your disagreement, not replying such messages

 

[Berga14]

Hello, welcome back to the very "i want to shout my liver out" slime thread, an expected but not noticed upgrade, for the past 2 years ever since volume 19 came out, immeasurable speed became a thing, however we wanted to wait for the so called "official translation" now its in volume 18, but nonetheless i am not taking most scans out of volume 19 just some prescription for clearance here

What is immeasurable speed in all sense of the word?​

What can qualify for immeasurable speed?, is it being faster than infinite speed?, what this speed is, is, as described being fast enough to hit before it happens or strike before its struck so an attack coming in from the future or past is deemed immeasurable speed, which is why they decided to call it "moving through linear time" although physically

Digital lifeforms and the nature of their being​

What are digital lifeforms?, are these guys just some nitwit with that name?, or are they digits (no pun intended)
Okay to the main focus
First we have to learn about the smallest unit of existence called

Information particle​

Which is a particle that is unaffected by time and space, it can also transmit information to any point in time by physically moving

Something like going to tell your dad who has died in the past "hello" by flying an information particle
As shown in context it's called "flown out" so it's physically moving, no TP, no DT just physical movement, you can also imprint in your wish in them

Back to digital lifeforms​

Digital lifeforms are completely made out of these particles, because dagruel is a digital nature he was able to perform this, however likes of veldora
Who jumped through time and space (from one timeline to another timeline)
We would clarify the "different timelines labyrinth" fuckery in this thread too

Which i would also like too look at

The labyrinth is a multiverse​

We have clarifed this information several times however we need to be more clear
So it states that each floor is its own dimension of time and space (different time axis from the other)-all other further explanation is on the imgur

However likes of Zelanus(who is a digital lifeform) physically penetrated all dimensions
-regarding timelines, each world is also its own timeline, the past of one world could be a future of another, for example universe A just in the middle of a big bang, while Universe B was facing heat death (The end), billions of years do Universe A is probably 0.6 seconds in Universe B and so on and so forth (for information regarding slime work of art for the cosmology please read this)

In other words the attack of a digital lifeform comes from the past, the future or something else more obligue

Like velgrynd who shazamed cornu with her space-time attack
And in his own time the attack landed decades ago, in other words even before they met

So here's a TL;DR (whatever this means)/summary for what the thread brings

Summary​

Information particle transmits information to any point in time regardless of time and space(instantly)(physically too)
Digital lifeforms can use this as basis to physically move through timelines by inflicting their will into the particle and fly it to whatever or whenever they wish
Velgrynd can attack people with her space time continuous attack to hit them in a "when" situation

What this gives​

Immeasurable speed for Veldanava
Immeasurable attack speed for Velgrynd and rimuru

Agree but i think that any digital lifeforms should have this speed and Rimuru and Velgrynd should have an additional attack speed.

 

[Huesito88]

The rules of the verse is simple
Nothing exceeds light speed, info particles exceeding light speed was shocking to rimuru and that same scan mentioned transporting info in 0 time
That's infinte speed however, it still transports to different timeline
I literally have 0 energy for your kind fuji, do what you want with your disagreement, not replying such messages

That wasn't in the OP I only saw that because Astral posted said scan

 

[CodeCCLL]

If this debate continues for a while longer, I will address counterarguments and additional evidence in a comment where I evaluate all statements with context. But I'll remain neutral for now and wait for the arguments of those who disagree.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

All the missing context is provided here, such as the moving across time feat, Velgrynd's attack's context and Veldora's context, hope this helps.

Sorry, took a while to combine all of them in one link, so was a few min late

Well first of all, sending something back in time isn't a speed feat, nor does anyone scale to it from what I'm seeing. Just add it to the profile as time manipulation.

Info particles transmitting information across time and space in 0 time is interesting, but like... that's transferring information. That's not a speed feat (in fact, it's strikingly similar to a real-world concept, which is interesting but not particularly relevant to powerscaling). The only thing implying as much is the statement that an information particle was "flown" somewhere, but that is the only textual evidence suggesting it's a speed feat, when every other description more accurately describes it as an instantaneous transfer of information (again, not a speed feat). It's far more likely a metaphorical way of describing that transfer of information, like how teleporting between worlds is described as "jumping" between them.

Ngl i am still lost why tf is everyone assuming something faster than light is slower than presumed feat
Fuji i don't have your time lol

The rules of the verse is simple
Nothing exceeds light speed, info particles exceeding light speed was shocking to rimuru and that same scan mentioned transporting info in 0 time
That's infinte speed however, it still transports to different timeline
I literally have 0 energy for your kind fuji, do what you want with your disagreement, not replying such messages

What the hell is your problem lol

 

[Huesito88]

Anos got his speed by literally sending attacks to the past. Idk how does this not mean speed to you.

Let's not whataboutism now

 

[Mizuki67]

Let's not whataboutism now

I am just saying if information can be sent through time why could it not qualify. We are talking about how scaling works here. Why did fujiwara say it is just a metaphoric way of talking about info particles. There is no context that suggest that. I am gonna have to disagree with the opposing arguments

 

[CodeCCLL]

Just add it to the profile as time manipulation.

The character who show the feat in mention already has it.

Well first of all, sending something back in time isn't a speed feat

So unless there's proof that he's doing this with pure speed, then yes, it's just time travel through time manipulation.

But probably many outdated and unpopular characters still have immeasurable speed this way.

Being stated to be FTL is not immeasurable.

Generally speaking, pure speed and time travel speed feats are handled in two ways: characters like Shinra from Fire Force, for example, who uses the theory of relativity correctly, that is, characters who literally turn into light as they approach the speed of light and travel through time by moving faster than the speed of light, and characters like in Dragon Ball who ignore the theory of relativity and need what we recognize as some kind of hax or immeasurable speed, where traveling faster than the speed of light is not enough to travel through time.

In my opinion, the author of the series was not familiar with quantum physics when he wrote the tensura (web novel) in the firstly, and so he wrote a story that did not depend on the theory of relativity when constructing the web novel continuum, However, when he started publishing it as tensura (light novel) or before, he was probably influenced by the theory of relativity, so in light novel, he constructed the speed of motion of everything except information particles in accordance with the theory of relativity, and included the only thing that he thought moved faster than the speed of light, namely information particles, as fundamental particles with almost no mass, which serve as the heart of all matter and carry the fundemental information that governs reality.

Info particles transmitting information across time and space in 0 time is interesting, but like... that's transferring information. That's not a speed feat (in fact, it's strikingly similar to a real-world concept, which is interesting but particularly relevant to powerscaling).

This is a really great point, I plan to mention it too. It is clear that the author benefited from this concept when adding the mechanism in question to the verse.

The only thing implying as much is the statement that an information particle was "flown" somewhere, but that is the only textual evidence suggesting it's a speed feat, when every other description more accurately describes it as an instantaneous transfer of information (again, not a speed feat).

This is an objective fact.

It's far more likely a metaphorical way of describing that transfer of information, like how teleporting between worlds is described as "jumping" between them

This is exactly where I disagree. I don't agree that it's metaphorical because information type 2 is a fundamental aspect of the existence of spiritual and digital life forms, in Tensura the abstract things like the mind, the soul, memories, skills are all made up of fundemental information and therefore they can transfer their fundemental information through information particles at the speed of information transfer and therefore they can travel at the speed of information transfer.

In conclusion, I agree that the speed of movement of Digital Lifeforms should scale with the speed of information transfer, but I am not sure at what speed the information transfer.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I agree FRA

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

This is exactly where I disagree. I don't agree that it's metaphorical because information type 2 is a fundamental aspect of the existence of spiritual and digital life forms, in Tensura the abstract things like the mind, the soul, memories, skills are all made up of fundemental information and therefore they can transfer their fundemental information through information particles at the speed of information transfer and therefore they can travel at the speed of information transfer.

I think you misunderstand. The information transfer is very literal, and I do believe it's happening. I just think the sentence used to claim that this transfer is done through physical movement isn't literal. An example of a similar phrase would be someone saying "I'll shoot you an email"; They are not literally pointing a gun at my computer and firing a compressed mass of data at it, it's just a metaphor for the sending of information.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Unfortunately, Mad Dog of Fujiwara is correct for the most part. However, this statement could refer to Immeasurable speed if it were described as hopping forward and backward in time, but hopping to other timelines would just be Dimensional Travel yes.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Unfortunately, Mad Dog of Fujiwara is correct for the most part. However, this statement could refer to Immeasurable speed if it were described as hopping forward and backward in time, but hopping to other timelines would just be Dimensional Travel yes.

Not other timelines as in universe
But to the past

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Agree but i think that any digital lifeforms should have this speed and Rimuru and Velgrynd should have an additional attack speed.

Velda is the only digital lifeform.

That wasn't in the OP I only saw that because Astral posted said scan

I posted it in the OP literally 4 times
If someone did read the whole thread they'll see it

I am just saying if information can be sent through time why could it not qualify. We are talking about how scaling works here. Why did fujiwara say it is just a metaphoric way of talking about info particles. There is no context that suggest that. I am gonna have to disagree with the opposing arguments

Don't even have his time.

• One they transmit info in no time flat (THATS IN THE OP)
• Its faster than light in the sense its the FASTEST thing in the verse and through verse mechanics it said it doesn't delay at all
• The "this doesn't give" and "its metaphoric" is laugable there are literal scans on velgrynd burning his universes in the past as he said "scorching fire attack"+ the other scans that was posted in the past. its like someone wants me to read him the whole story of what happened to cornu
• No one said veldora used spatial transport, it said he leaped from time so anyone who jump world is a Dimensional Traveler, lol, but at that i guess i would provide context for it though, your abilities in suspended world doesnt mean anything, which mean spatial transport won't work, that ability is what characters use to travel across dimensions
• Idk where he is reading the info particle is transporting or teleporting themselves in every scan there it is said to physically flow out and grasp information from another point in time literally, it physically moves, why tf do you think rimuru is saying its faster than light speed, if it was ability based there are abilities in slime such as this, that already flies to and fro from Timelines and universes
• Also don't try to always pinpoint one tiny misgiving such as "he doesn't know what exactly happen" so long as that didn't contradict anything the quote means literally nothing

 

[CodeCCLL]

An example of a similar phrase would be someone saying "I'll shoot you an email"; They are not literally pointing a gun at my computer and firing a compressed mass of data at it, it's just a metaphor for the sending of information.

Actually for me, this example supports the idea that information is transferred through physical movement. If you send me an e-mail, the information you send from your e-mail is carried to my device with the physical movement of electromagnetic waves and I obtain the information in your e-mail. As you can see from the scans, the information transfer of information particles works in a similar logic to IRL, in this context, information particles are basic quantum particles that even form photons, which are classified as macro-quantum level in the wiki, and can transfer information even faster than photons.

For these reasons I think it is much more senseble for information transfer to occur through physical movement than not so. So still I think Digital Lifeforms should at least qualify for FTL, on the point of immeasurable speed we need knowledgeable staff opinion on the practical applications of relativity theory in the verses.

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Using email was even a bad way to express it not being and same goes with phone calls, all these travel at the speed of light through electromagnetic wave yes.
And FTL?

Actually for me, this example supports the idea that information is transferred through physical movement. If you send me an e-mail, the information you send from your e-mail is carried to my device with the physical movement of electromagnetic waves and I obtain the information in your e-mail. As you can see from the scans, the information transfer of information particles works in a similar logic to IRL, in this context, information particles are basic quantum particles that even form photons, which are classified as macro-quantum level in the wiki, and can transfer information even faster than photons.

For these reasons I think it is much more senseble for information transfer to occur through physical movement than not so. So still I think Digital Lifeforms should at least qualify for FTL, on the point of immeasurable speed we need knowledgeable staff opinion on the practical applications of relativity theory in the verses.

No, bruh Jesus
Wait, it literally says here about dagruel being able to move so fast there's no change to atmosphere that's infinite speed but however things like transmit to different POINT in time clears for Immeasurable
The first thing to note is NOT ALL "FASTER THAN LIGHT STATEMENT" MEANS ITS SLOWER THAN IMMEASURABLE SPEED PLEASE
Get it to the brain, it's like saying "i went faster than sound" with profound evidence of it being speed of light= "oh its just supersonic speed lol" like isnt that concerning???
It says in all the links passed by @Astral to be immeasurable speed why are people just overlooking it, its not like they said its slower than light its faster

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

snip

snip

If movement is what you're doubting, they're indeed moving, or you can also say flying, so like, IP[information particle]-1 moves to IP-2, gives it the information it was containing, and IP-2 does it with IP-3 the same way, and so on
and a reminder, they're made of said information particles entirely

 

[Jozaysmith?]

can you all (@Astral_Trinity439 ) stop sending in messages you're cloging the thread up, The op which is me will summarize everything and pass it to the members here

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

can you all (@Astral_Trinity439 ) stop sending in messages you're cloging the thread up, The op which is me will summarize everything and pass it to the members here

Tell me one thing, where did I "clog" the thread? Can you link one instance where my reply was unrelated to the thread? I merely gave proof to what was asked by Fuji here, don't remember any point where my reply was unrelated to the OP

 

[CodeCCLL]

Wait, it literally says here about dagruel being able to move so fast there's no change to atmosphere that's infinite speed

"Modern Physics" doesn't work like that...

The fundamental particles of matter, leptons and quarks, that is, fermions, all interact with bosons, which are quantum field particles, and they gain gravitational force with gravitons and mass with higgs bosos, but photons and, in this case, quantum field particles such as the quantum field particles of the information particles that even make up the photons, they do not interact with gravitons and higgs boson, so the success you mentioned in scanning has nothing to do with infinite speed.

The first thing to note is NOT ALL "FASTER THAN LIGHT STATEMENT" MEANS ITS SLOWER THAN IMMEASURABLE SPEED PLEASE
Get it to the brain, it's like saying "i went faster than sound" with profound evidence of it being speed of light= "oh its just supersonic speed lol" like isnt that concerning???

This way you can't squeeze everything into narrow thought patterns. If you have no idea how relativity works, in a verse where the theory of relativity is valid, any object that exceeds the speed of light can show all the feats that you describe as immeasurable speed in Tensura.

A simple example of what I'm talking about.

• Time Travel (Can travel back in time by moving faster than the speed of light[3])
• Time Stop (Stops time by traveling faster than the speed of light[4])

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Tell me one thing, where did I "clog" the thread? Can you link one instance where my reply was unrelated to the thread? I merely gave proof to what was asked by Fuji here, don't remember any point where my reply was unrelated to the OP

Don't have time to argue but different people giving different opinions and scan is clogging up thread and makes it hard to go through for mods
I myself THE OP will bring answers to all disagreements, thank you, no need to be dilly dally about someone telling not to send more links

 

[Jozaysmith?]

"Modern Physics" doesn't work like that...

The fundamental particles of matter, leptons and quarks, that is, fermions, all interact with bosons, which are quantum field particles, and they gain gravitational force with gravitons and mass with higgs bosos, but photons and, in this case, quantum field particles such as the quantum field particles of the information particles that even make up the photons, the higgs boson and they do not interact with gravitons, so the success you mentioned in scanning has nothing to do with infinite speed.

This way you can't squeeze everything into narrow thought patterns. If you have no idea how relativity works, in a verse where the theory of relativity is valid, any object that exceeds the speed of light can show all the feats that you describe as immeasurable speed in Tensura.

A simple example of what I'm talking about.

• Time Travel (Can travel back in time by moving faster than the speed of light[3])
• Time Stop (Stops time by traveling faster than the speed of light[4])

No
You're saying something else entirely i will present a more better way to express what you said wrong here about 2 things
And the physics thingy isn't valid either