Ikki vs Fugil REDUX

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

@Fire

Can they resist Kurono's stuff?

 

[Moritzva]

Does Fugil have the same shield Lux had, by any chance? And can Ikki bypass it easily? Since having a constantly regenerating shield will definitely give Fugil a leg up at the start of the battle, and it seems like Fugil and Lux share a decent bit of similar techniques.

That barrier is basic Drag-Ride stuff, of course a Divine Drag-Ride would have it.

Cool. How potent is it compared to Lux's, and can Ikki bypass it? Since if not, Lux can just wail on Ikki for a fair bit of time while Ikki can't make much progress in damaging him.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Fire
Can they resist Kurono's stuff?

It is part of the causation system so that's proof time is part of "cause and effect" which they transcend.

But i think Kurono may be able to affect type 4 acausal with her time hax, maybe an after effect of her almost awakening as a desperado at some point.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Is passive Desperado hax a non-factor?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

We are not using Lux here tho

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Is passive Desperado hax a non-factor?

Nah, doubt Ikki would get bloodlusted here.

The last time he did was when people had panty shots of Stella

 

[Schnee_One]

It's>=Lux

Ikki can't bypass a forcefields without sheer AP, as shown by Stella's Empress Dress.

But what's the durability of the shield

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Lmao. Gotta catch up.

 

[Moritzva]

It's>=Lux
Ikki can't bypass a forcefields without sheer AP, as shown by Stella's Empress Dress.

But what's the durability of the shield

Well, the thing is, Drag forcefields can be bypassed by... I don't know, but there are a selection of methods to bypass them. I'd ask Ion for more details, but to my knowledge, they can be bypassed through some very specific methods.

 

[Ionliosite]

But what's the durability of the shield

The barriers have somewhat better durability than the Drag-Ride itself. And Fugil is massively above every other 8-A in the verse who all scale to 110 tons on varying degrees.

 

[Ionliosite]

6. Yeah but that means his opponents are trash, against a more skilled opponent, precog means a lot.

8. I see, something like Kurado's attacks then?

6. No, he was literally fighting Singlen that time. Singlen has a Senjin technique that allows to create a mist that deletes senses, including Extrasensory Perception, and Fugil still perfectly fought him that way.

8. Basically.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Desperado is being beyond "the causation system" in rakudai. The causation system includes:

Causality manip

Fate manip

Probability Manip

Time Manip

Precognition

Have they actually resisted all of this stuff?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

6. You're comparing Singlen to Ikki? Quite a bold move.

8. I mean ikki has dealt with those.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Have they actually resisted all of this stuff?

All besides time manip, because they transcend the Causation system. So it stands to reason if they transcend all other abilities that are included in "cause and effect" system, by transcending "cause and effect". Stands to reason time manip is no different.

 

[Ionliosite]

6. I'm not exactly comparing Singlen to Ikki, I'm just saying that Singlen isn't trash as you said that the opponents is trash.

Btw, I don't like starting to list what my character can do first.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

6. Singlen is trash in comparison if Fugil can beat him with those handicaps. And a dude who's significantly below with a dude who's significantly above you in skill are way different.

Neither do i so yeet.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

If they haven't actually, not sure we'd just lean on them resisting it.

More like, they resist causality because of Acausal 4, but that doesn't work the same at all with time.

And to be honest, "dude was shit so him using his precog is not comparable to Ikki one single bit" is immensely dumb. I hope you aren't actualy arguing it.

 

[Schnee_One]

Literally every opponent that wasn't directly compared to Ikki has feats that are trash by comparison, so that argument applies both ways

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You guys both failed the logic pretty hard.

Ion said "he doesn't need Precog".

I'm saying, against a more skilled opponent you do indeed need precog. He beat opponents weaker than Ikki without precog doesn't mean he will do just fine against Ikki to.

Otherwise the logic is "a baby beat another baby without a gun therefore against a grown up soldier it can do the same thing". Know the arguments Sir.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Doesn't Fugil have passive Info Analysis then proceed to BFR himself with Zero-One? I remember his next move after that is Law Manip

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except the intent of that is that he doesn't use Precog as a crutch, he can fight without it.

Or are we seriously gonna try and act like every single Ikki fight that isn't against someone "comparable" in big quotes doesn't end in an instant? They are pretty comparable to boot even if Ikki is above.

Know yours, because they don't make sense.

 

[Ionliosite]

Doesn't Fugil have passive Info Analysis then proceed to BFR himself with Zero-One? I remember his next move after that is Law Manip

That's with Ouroboros, this is with Bahamut. The Info Analysis still applies tho.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What are Ikki's advantages here, tbh. While he's not outskilled because duh, he's definitely out everything else'd.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Except the intent of that is that he doesn't use Precog as a crutch, he can fight without it.
Or are we seriously gonna try and act like every single Ikki fight that isn't against someone "comparable" in big quotes doesn't end in an instant? They are pretty comparable to boot even if Ikki is above.

Know yours, because they don't make sense.

Yes, he can fight without it but using it as an argument is what im against. "He has won without it before that's why it'll be fine", he has won against significantly weaker opponents without it, not against people outclassing him.

And a huge strawman there, find me when i said or implied that? Or why that is relevant at all to my point.

@Cal

Idk, im making the obligatory arguing first.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except Ikki isn't outclassing him, since he doesn't have every advantage. From that second you are already setting a non existent situation.

Earl, by now you are honest bullshitting me. And the problem is your implication that precog is such a big deal if you get trashed despite having it, like Ikki not trashing people despite having it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I never said any of that. I never said "it's a lost cause without precog". I was just arguing against using the singlen example. Stop extrapolating my intention.

On another note can Fugil deal with Void Step?

 

[Ionliosite]

On another note can Fugil deal with Void Step?

Void Step is Trackless Step, right?

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

After reading the blog about Reload on Fire, so Fugil can:

• Amplify his stats by x10 and x100 with Overlimit
• Accelerate himself by x10 and x100 with Overlimit
• Stat reduc his opponents by x10 and x100 with Overlimit
• Decelerate time by 10x and x100 with Overlimit

That sounds broken

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Then make your intention clear because it feels like a mess. It felt like you were contending Fugil being able to perform without precog just because the situation was against someone less skilled unlike here.

Granted, instinctive reaction and analyctic prediction are still a go.

 

[Schnee_One]

Wish I could force my way through the anime to see that

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Wish I could force my way through the anime to see that

Who knows, you might find the Novel much easier to stomach,

 

[Schnee_One]

I wish

All the anime was watching it was "I'd rather play Armored Core"

 

[Ionliosite]

After reading the blog about Reload on Fire, so Fugil can:

That's not what Over Limit does. Over Limit is a transformation that unlocks the true power of a Drag-Ride, amping AP 10 times, and amping other stats to an unknown degree. He can't suddenly use use Reload on Fire with 100x because of Over Limit.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Ion

Yes

@Sir

Which is what i meant by "know the arguments". Know what im arguing against. If unclear best to ask instead of assuming what im saying.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Then I see no point to the contention again, since there's nothing indicating the lack of precog will affect this much and Fugil being able to contend without it seems like a fact. Being able to fight just as well without an advantage is still a feat, and not one worth nothing.

 

[Ionliosite]

Ah, Trackless Step. I legit don't remember what power is it, because the whole "irrelevant detail on people's mind" thing is pretty weird. Does having resistance to mindhax that bypasses resistance to mindhax that bypasses resistance to mindhax that bypasses resistance to mindhax and resistance to world-wide perception manip help?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nope.

You need some sort of feat with your unconsciousness.

What is World Wide Peception?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

>World Wide perception

I think it does

 

[Ionliosite]

Basically, Perception Manip that affects every single person in the world at the same time.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Completely different from what Trackless Step does.