Iihiko's "infinite" nullification

[Ogbunabali]

Because it's NLF to assume that.

Just because you didn't get burned by the surface of the sun doesn't mean that you won't get burned by planck temperature. Just because he nulled a single hax != he can null everything in existence.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't doubt he can ignore other 4D skills, just that (as usual for MB), people are treating it as a much bigger deal than it is.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I don't doubt he can ignore other 4D skills, just that (as usual for MB), people are treating it as a much bigger deal than it is.

We are?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Because it's NLF to assume that.
Just because you didn't get burned by the surface of the sun doesn't mean that you won't get burned by planck temperature. Just because he nulled a single hax != he can null everything in existence.

how? he has shown feats of nullifying 4D skills, so why in gods name is him nullifying lower order attacks a NLF? I am not talking about a different kind of ability that he has not interacted with. Keep in mind that his abilities treat hax and AP as the same

Ok, this is getting to a strawman at this point. Not a single person on this entire thread or of the Medaka box supporters has claimed that

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I don't doubt he can ignore other 4D skills, just that (as usual for MB), people are treating it as a much bigger deal than it is.

Would you kindly go into a bit more detail?

 

[Ogbunabali]

snip

You literally claimed that in your own sentence.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Me saying that we cannot confidently say that he can nullify kinds of abilities that he hasn't interacted with is the same as claiming he can nullify every attack in existence? In what ******* universe?

 

[Ogbunabali]

I agree with you on that point. But not on the AP.

 

[Elizhaa]

Elizhaa, with all due respect, its rather trite to say that things are based on feats. We all know this.
I'm also not sure what you point is to begin with, because when someone shows feats of nullifying 4D skills, and by the own verses mechanics he can ignore skills (and for our purposes, things that equalize to them), I don't really understand what about that isn't supported by feats, and why you would falsely assume that he cannot nullify other 4D skills.

Things were always based always based on feats whether someone like me it or not. I abided by this principle for some of my favorite characters.

• and why you would falsely assume that he cannot nullify other 4D skills

What, please eleborated how did I falsely assume this points? I don't think it an argument to say I am wrong without eleborations. I am fine for the for the abilities that he shown he could Powernull 4-D or otherwise. What I am not fine are for abilities that he never shown to Powernull stated to be applicable for his Power Nullification which our current systems disagree.

Again, relevant to the discussion in the Power Nullification page:

• It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Do you care to address the point and answer the question then? How is him nullifying a higher dimensional ability a NLF to him nullifying a lower order attack

 

[Ogbunabali]

Because that's just a single hax that doesn't get equalized to literally anything else besides that single hax?

 

[TriforcePower1]

There's also the fact that you need to interact with the time axis in order to be 4D whereas AF only interacted with a single person across time

 

[Paul_Frank]

The powernull note is saying, say for instance a character nullifies all supernatural powers up to high 1-C. That character can be assumed to null anything considered supernatural up to high 1-C even if they haven't shown to be able to nullify a particular supernatural power, but they can't be assumed to nullify 1-B supernatural powers.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Kumagawa's All Fiction fundamentally erases things by erasing their cause and effect. With one exception anything he does is really as much 4D and potency appliciable as causing time paradoxes.

The only thing that could potentially be seen as 4D potency is him erasing like 10 seconds of time related to the events happening in a hallway.

If we give Iihiko 4D power null for negating that I petition to upgrade the White Quee to High 3-A for being able to damage barriers that can endure her spacetime erasing attacks, which can erase spacetime for several seconds of entire planets to galaxies.

But to be serious, we treat small scale spacetime abilities as hax, meaning exactly that we don't scale stuff to High 3-A potency from them. And Kumagawa's ability is small scale.

 

[Elizhaa]

The powernull note is saying, say for instance a character nullifies all supernatural powers up to high 1-C. That character can be assumed to null anything considered supernatural up to high 1-C even if they haven't shown to be able to nullify a particular supernatural power, but they can't be assumed to nullify 1-B supernatural powers.

One Iihiko Shishime's has never to nullify all supernatural powers especially like those on the wiki like Soul Manipulation so the points would applicable for what he not has showned. Other abilities that he shown to null I fine for whatever higher D hax that he caps at all.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think @DontTalkDT's new points make sense.

 

[PaChi2]

"Note: Because of the NLF nature of his ability, we don't assume that he can just nullify every single ability and any type of AP. Rather he can just nullify hax, AP and their potency, of that which he has displayed."

I dont agree with part of this note since pretty much every PN user is assumed to null everything unless the opponent has resistance to PN.

 

[Ogbunabali]

That depends on the type of null. People actually hit Iihko and their attacks don't work, if it's like a Silence spell in a RPG it would prevent them from ever casting their attack in the first place.

 

[GLHF22]

"Note: Because of the NLF nature of his ability, we don't assume that he can just nullify every single ability and any type of AP. Rather he can just nullify hax, AP and their potency, of that which he has displayed."
I dont agree with part of this note since pretty much every PN user is assumed to null everything unless the opponent has resistance to PN.

good then

Rimuru Null everyone who doesnt have resistance to it even if their ability potency is higher than his

 

[PaChi2]

"The type of null"? I thought I made it clear in my comment that Im referring to those omni-nullificators and no specific ones.

 

[Paul_Frank]

One Iihiko Shishime's has never to nullify all supernatural powers especially like those on the wiki like Soul Manipulation so the points would applicable for what he not has showned. Other abilities that he shown to null I fine for whatever higher D hax that he caps at all.

You're misunderstanding, the note isnt saying a powernull user can only null things they have been shown to null. It's saying they can't null things of a higher potency than they have been shown to null. I.e someone with 1-B powernull can null anything up to and including their level for instance but anything above them is when it starts becoming nlf.

 

[Ogbunabali]

"The type of null"? I thought I made it clear in my comment that Im referring to those omni-nullificators and no specific ones.

But you quoted Iihiko's specific note?

 

[PaChi2]

Its the first part's wording what I disagree with because that's not how I have seen PN being treated at all. You nullify everything, GG.

Also @GLHF thank you trying to twist my words. But you must be new because a lot of PN users are assumed to null stuff above their AP.

 

[GLHF22]

why i have to twist ur words when im happy Rimuru is stronger than i know?

now i have argument for conceptual manip XD

 

[Ogbunabali]

Its the first part's wording what I disagree with because that's not how I have seen PN being treated at all. You nullify everything, GG.

That depends on how their null works. And there was a thread about it that it doesn't work like that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Iapetus. Because people are treating it as he's nullifying a tier 2 hax as opposed to a 4-D hax. Massive difference.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Iapetus. Because people are treating it as he's nullifying a tier 2 hax as opposed to a 4-D hax. Massive difference.

What? When?

 

[Elizhaa]

"Note: Because of the NLF nature of his ability, we don't assume that he can just nullify every single ability and any type of AP. Rather he can just nullify hax, AP and their potency, of that which he has displayed."
I dont agree with part of this note since pretty much every PN user is assumed to null everything unless the opponent has resistance to PN.

Resistance is intresically relevant but user is assumed to null everything they shown can null though as all Power Nullification abilities are not equal. The page was reworked by @Promestein for the NLF addition. A recent thread about the NLF part was brought for revision and the NLF part stayed: Thread:3053730

 

[PaChi2]

Imma crawl to my nest. Enough nonsense.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Fire I should point out that part of tiering system explanation where it's stated that 4-D power should always be superior to 3-D power is something most agreed to have revised.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

But to be serious, we treat small scale spacetime abilities as hax, meaning exactly that we don't scale stuff to High 3-A potency from them.

And Kumagawa's ability is small scale.

Well ugh (that's what you may think for now, hehe). But im pretty sure Kumagawa wouldn't count as "small scale" given that he can erase time. Part of a low 2-C feat. Wouldn't that have the same potency as High 3-A, due to being 4D but not universal potency (since AF is universal in range). If it were 4D but universal in potency it'd be Low 2-C.

 

[Andytrenom]

High 3-A for less than universal 4-D is supposed to be removed

 

[Elizhaa]

@Fire I should point out that part of tiering system explanation where it's stated that 4-D power should always be superior to 3-D power is something most agreed to have revised.

Yeah, this point is true. @Ultima Reality's was going to make a staff thread on the topic but we got to wait for a while.

 

[Andytrenom]

Actually I am talking about what was decided on Sera's thread

 

[Firephoenixearl]

High 3-A for less than universal 4-D is supposed to be removed

What's the point then? It just becomes Low 2-C. Also less than universal in range or potency?

 

[PaChi2]

I don't doubt he can ignore other 4D skills, just that (as usual for Pokémon), people are treating it as a much bigger deal than it is.

Hey! This is still correct!

And dont even try denying it because I have so many "Pokemon downgrade" threads to use as proof against whatever excuse you can come up with.

 

[Andytrenom]

Affecting timespace on a scale below universal isn't going to be High 3-A anymore and it's not going to be low 2-C either. Only feats of affecting a time space continuum in its entirety or having explicit transcendence over 3-Ds will count as low 2-C

This scenario isn't going to be tierable

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I see so High 3-A will be strictly for infinite 3D then?

 

[Andytrenom]

Yes

 

[Firephoenixearl]

This can be closed then. Someone should remove the note from Iihiko's profile (the one that was added some hours ago). When the tier is changed Iihiko will stop being a smurf i guess.