Igniting the Genshin scaling chain

[GarrixianXD]

Well, we all obviously know that 4-A shouldn't scale for everyone. This revision will focus on revising the scaling chain, adding new feats, and trimming invalid abilities.

1. Neuvillette, Skirk and the All-Devouring Narwhal will keep their 4-A tiering, but the feat that they'll scale to will be changed for a few characters. Fontaine Traveller will be downgraded to 7-A while only being at most 4-A via being bestowed a partial power of the ancient dragons by Neuvillette; it wouldn't be coherent to assume Traveller to be able to fight against the Narwhall in his base form while being explicitly said to require the power of the ancient dragons.

As a byproduct, Neuvillette should be given the following abilities: Greater Power Bestowal via the reasons explained above; Statistics Reduction and Power Nullification via severing the Power of the Primordial Sea from the All-Devouring Narwhall. The All-Devouring Narwhall should also get dimensional storage as he absorbs enemies into an entire pocket dimension, which is seemingly his stomach; Type 9 Immortality as we see his true form resides within the pocket dimension inside the Narwhall's stomach, and preferably Avatar Creation as it implies the All-Devouring Narwall isn't even its true form, but rather the dark shadowy figure that we see in the second phase of the boss battle.

The new feat for the 4-A scaling should be established for those aforementioned Fontaine arc characters, that will revolve around this description, when the All-Devouring Narwhall swallowed, absorbed and extinguished countless stars and eventually the endless sea of stars. It is said that those starry skies take resemblance to that of a galaxy, implying the Narwhall absorbed and extinguished an entire galaxy overtime.

2. The following characters who don't legitimately scale to archons will have their 4-A rating removed:

• Wanderer: The scaling of Scaramouche revolves around the Shouko No Kami being powered by an electro gnosis, and therefore was deemed to have become an archon. This is, however, rather false; a gnosis is actually a relic of magic that allows an archon to resonate their connection to Celestia; neither is it a source of divine power nor any power-bestowing tool. On top of that, it was clearly stated Scaramouche didn't even reach the level of divinity as other archons, as for him being said to become a "true god" doesn't even mean anything; as we've seen gods in Genshin who are both stronger and weaker than the archons (otherwise, even Guoba would also be archon level, which obviously is incoherent); it would be hasty generalisation and lack of evidence to assume he is archon level. With that said, downgrade Scaramouche and Wanderer to 7-A. As a byproduct, anyone who has their 4-A scaling from Scaramouche, those being Cyno, Alhaitham, Sumeru Traveller and Apep (first key), should also be downgraded to 7-A.
• All adepti; particularly Xiao and Shenhe; they have nothing in their attack potency section that explains they even remotely scale on par with Morax in terms of power. However, the adepti has the feat of creating the Realm of Clouds through sub-space creation, meaning they can scale to 4-C due to the Realm of Clouds having a contained sun in them. Therefore, the adepti and their close disciples such as Xiao, Ganyu and Shenhe will have their attack potency upgraded/downgraded via scaling to the Realm of Clouds creation. Before you ask, yeah, Genshin does have a sufficient energy system; sub-space creation is established as an ability by adeptal arts, the techniques of adepti to cast their elemental power which is the Genshin UES.
• Dvalin: This should be pretty straightforward; the "at most 4-A" justification only links to being able to fight on par with a list of 7-A characters. Downgrade Dvalin's poisoned key to 7-A.
• Arlecchino: This change of the scaling chain might be a bit controversial since she is ranked 4th on the Fatui Harbingers while Tartaglia is only ranked 11th. However, it should be mentioned that the ranks of the Harbingers aren't strictly based on strength and no evidence supports it. Other than the first 3 Harbingers being able to rival the power of archons, which implies that theory but not enough to justify it. Arlecchino's scaling comes from Fontaine Traveller; though as I mentioned before, the Traveller was only able to fight the All-Devouring Narwhal because of the power bestowment by Neuvillette; it wouldn't be logical for him to retain the ancient dragon's power after the All-Devouring Narwhal was defeated. It should also be mentioned that Tartaglia only scales to 4-A via Foul Legacy, which is an abyssal ability exclusively taught to him by Skirk, an ability that all the other Fatui Harbingers do not have. Ultimately, Arlecchino should be downgraded to 7-A.
• Tartaglia: I thought about keeping his 4-A rating with Foul Legacy, but after considerable thought, his feat of fighting against the All-Devouring Narwhall should be rather an outlier, since he was defeated by Liyue Traveller, yet Arlecchino defeated Fontaine Traveller while holding back, hence Arlecchino should be far stronger than Foul Legacy Tartaglia. Downgrade Tartaglia to 7-A, while higher with Foul Legacy.
• Iniquitous Baptist: Likewise as said before, base Fontaine Traveller is only 7-A; possibly 4-A should be removed for it.

3. Remove the Varies ratings from Archons. The Varies rating stems from the statements that an archon's power is derived from the faith and love of its people, however, it should be noted that there's a difference between deriving power from a source and being dependent on a source. Not to mention, this notion is directly contradicted by this scene, which ascribes that the Tsaritsa, the Cryo Archon, is no longer loved by any of her people. Yet she is still powerful enough to command all of the Fatui Harbingers and bestow them god-like powers; even 3 of those Harbingers possess powers that even surpass that of gods, including archons.

4. These abilities should be added to the Elemental Manipulation page, based on this content that is on Traveller's profile and pages of other allogenes, such as Rosaria:

• Transformation, Intangibility (Elemental), Speed Amplification & Limited Flight (Vision users can transform into their respective elements for a greater range of movement)
• Summoning & Limited Weapon Control (Like all Allogenes, the Traveler can freely summon and telekinetically move their primary weapon)
• Forcefield Creation (Like all Allogenes, the Traveler can erect an elemental shield to defend against attacks)
• Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception (Has Elemental Sight which allows the Traveler to detect elemental traces)

5. Nahida's type 1 conceptual erasure should be removed, as Rukkadevata's realm of consciousness wasn't actually erased; only her consciousness and overall existence were erased.

 

[Puppet43]

The new feat for the 4-A scaling should be established for those aforementioned Fontaine arc characters, that will revolve around this description, when the All-Devouring Narwhall swallowed, absorbed and extinguished countless stars and eventually the endless sea of stars.

Thats an feat made by the Black Hole, it doesnt destroy it, but absorb it

partial power of the ancient dragons by Neuvillette; it wouldn't be coherent to assume Traveller to be able to fight against the Narwhall in his base form while being explicitly said to require the power of the ancient dragons.

Aether is stated to be the executioner, meaning he did all the killing job, do with Neuvi protection (a shield)

it was clearly stated Scaramouche didn't even reach the level of divinity as other archons,

Nahida denies the part about him being all Knowing but doesnt about the all powerful and even compares him to Rukkhadevata

otherwise, even Guoba would also be archon level,

the difference is that guoba hasnt do a thing whiel Snk dealt with 2 consider archon tier or god lvl, nahida and traveler + stated equality to Rukk

the ranks of the Harbingers aren't strictly based on strength and no evidence supports it.

the other way around, the ranks had been only strictly evidence to be power based

 

[Woomica]

Well, we all obviously know that 4-A shouldn't scale for everyone. This revision will focus on revising the scaling chain, adding new feats, and trimming invalid abilities.

1. Neuvillette, Skirk and the All-Devouring Narwhal will keep their 4-A tiering, but the feat that they'll scale to will be changed for a few characters. Fontaine Traveller will be downgraded to 7-A while only being at most 4-A via being bestowed a partial power of the ancient dragons by Neuvillette; it wouldn't be coherent to assume Traveller to be able to fight against the Narwhall in his base form while being explicitly said to require the power of the ancient dragons.

Disagree on this part since i disagree with whole removal of 7-A from sumeru traveler onwards, keeping 4-A for neuvi and skirk is fine tho

As a byproduct, Neuvillette should be given the following abilities: Greater Power Bestowal via the reasons explained above; Statistics Reduction and Power Nullification via severing the Power of the Primordial Sea from the All-Devouring Narwhall. The All-Devouring Narwhall should also get dimensional storage as he absorbs enemies into an entire pocket dimension, which is seemingly his stomach; Type 9 Immortality as we see his true form resides within the pocket dimension inside the Narwhall's stomach, and preferably Avatar Creation as it implies the All-Devouring Narwall isn't even its true form, but rather the dark shadowy figure that we see in the second phase of the boss battle.

Fine, not sure abt immo 9

The new feat for the 4-A scaling should be established for those aforementioned Fontaine arc characters, that will revolve around this description, when the All-Devouring Narwhall swallowed, absorbed and extinguished countless stars and eventually the endless sea of stars.

by the description this is clear overtime feat, it cant work, plus countless stars and endless sea of stars sounds like a crazy flowery language

2. The following characters who don't legitimately scale to archons will have their 4-A rating removed:

• Wanderer: The scaling of Scaramouche revolves around the Shouko No Kami being powered by an electro gnosis, and therefore was deemed to have become an archon. This is, however, rather false; a gnosis is actually a relic of magic that allows an archon to resonate their connection to Celestia; neither is it a source of divine power nor any power-bestowing/statistic-amplifying tool. On top of that, it was clearly stated Scaramouche didn't even reach the level of divinity as other archons, as for him being said to become a "true god" doesn't even mean anything; as we've seen gods in Genshin who are both stronger and weaker than the archons (otherwise, even Guoba would also be archon level, which obviously is incoherent); it would be hasty generalisation and lack of evidence to assume he is archon level. With that said, downgrade Scaramouche and Wanderer to 7-A. As a byproduct, anyone who has their 4-A scaling from Scaramouche, those being Cyno, Alhaitham, Sumeru Traveller and Apep (first key), should also be downgraded to 7-A.

So your saying, that a Shouki no Kami, a designed mecha to sustain actual gnosis and what the **** do you mean magic that allows archon to resonate? Do you not realise that without Focalors destroying her throne and giving up gnosis, neuvilette would NOT have his authority restored, AND NOT TO MENTION usage of Mavuika's gnosis to protect natlan, i dont get where this shit is coming from.
and let me tell you something. there is a clear difference between dieties like Guoba and actual Gods that can use gnosis i think you can understand that too.
this is pure disagree towards traveler downgrade, even by dying 169 times, he was still able to tank scara hits, and only by combined KNOWLEDGE, he could beat scara, clearly an alright feat. also Wanderer legit fought inside a dream that is deemed to be as real as a real world, so he should stay 4-A

• All adepti; particularly Xiao and Shenhe; they have nothing in their attack potency section that explains they even remotely scale on par with Morax in terms of power. However, the adepti has the feat of creating the Realm of Clouds through sub-space creation, meaning they can scale to 4-C due to the Realm of Clouds having a contained sun in them. Therefore, the adepti and their close disciples such as Xiao, Ganyu and Shenhe will have their attack potency upgraded/downgraded via scaling to the Realm of Clouds creation. Before you ask, yeah, Genshin does have a sufficient energy system; sub-space creation is established as an ability by adeptal arts, the techniques of adepti to cast their elemental power which is the Genshin UES.

unless the stars inside the realm are real, im neutral

• Dvalin: This should be pretty straightforward; the "at most 4-A" justification only links to being able to fight on par with a list of 7-A characters. Downgrade Dvalin's poisoned key to 7-A.

this one...welp idk its fine I guess

• Arlecchino: This change of the scaling chain might be a bit controversial since she is ranked 4th on the Fatui Harbingers while Tartaglia is only ranked 11th. However, it should be mentioned that the ranks of the Harbingers aren't strictly based on strength and no evidence supports it. Other than the first 3 Harbingers being able to rival the power of archons, which implies that theory but not enough to justify it. Arlecchino's scaling comes from Fontaine Traveller; though as I mentioned before, the Traveller was only able to fight the All-Devouring Narwhal because of the power bestowment by Neuvillette; it wouldn't be logical for him to retain the ancient dragon's power after the All-Devouring Narwhal was defeated. It should also be mentioned that Tartaglia only scales to 4-A via Foul Legacy, which is an abyssal ability exclusively taught to him by Skirk, an ability that all the other Fatui Harbingers do not have. Ultimately, Arlecchino should be downgraded to 7-A.

SKULL MOMENT, litteraly Arlecchino is number 4. far above likes of scara and childe, the fact that she could beat up a traveler while severely holding back, who was still able to take on Shouki no Kami, Apep, Narwhal, even dare challenge furina despite not knowing shes just a human...this this is crazy

• Tartaglia: I thought about keeping his 4-A rating with Foul Legacy, but after considerable thought, his feat of fighting against the All-Devouring Narwhall should be rather an outlier, since he was defeated by Liyue Traveller

A FEAT FROM 4 YEARS???? YOU DONT REALISE HE GETS STRONGER? DO YOU READ LORE? ONG your CRAAAAZY just look at this OMG
YOU LEGIT GIVE NAHIDA 4-A FOR NO PROOF OF FIGHTING ALONGSIDE APEP, YET YOU FIND THIS AN OUTLIER? NAH IM DONE IM DONE IM DONE IM CRASHING OUT FOR THE FIRST TIME CUZ OF SCALING PIXELS.

• , yet Arlecchino defeated Fontaine Traveller while holding back, hence Arlecchino should be far stronger than Foul Legacy Tartaglia. Downgrade Tartaglia to 7-A, while higher with Foul Legacy.

******* ass take honeslty, he was fighting narwhal for a VERY long time, i think i have repeated this GAZZILION times.

• Iniquitous Baptist: Likewise as said before, base Fontaine Traveller is only 7-A; possibly 4-A should be removed for it.

He shouldnt even be 4-A in the begining so sure, higher rating can be applied tho

3. Remove the Varies ratings from Archons. The Varies rating stems from the statements that an archon's power is derived from the faith and love of its people, however, it should be noted that there's a difference between deriving power from a source and being dependent on a source. Not to mention, this notion is directly contradicted by this scene, which ascribes that the Tsaritsa, the Cryo Archon, is no longer loved by any of her people. Yet she is still powerful enough to command all of the Fatui Harbingers and bestow them god-like powers; even 3 of those Harbingers possess powers that even surpass that of gods, including archons.

Tought abt this, ig sure its not like faith of people aint gonna boost archon power into sky and back

4. These abilities should be added to the Elemental Manipulation page, based on this content that is on Traveller's profile and pages of other allogenes, such as Rosaria:

• Transformation, Intangibility (Elemental), Speed Amplification & Limited Flight (Vision users can transform into their respective elements for a greater range of movement)
• Summoning & Limited Weapon Control (Like all Allogenes, the Traveler can freely summon and telekinetically move their primary weapon)
• Forcefield Creation (Like all Allogenes, the Traveler can erect an elemental shield to defend against attacks)
• Enhanced Senses/Extrasensory Perception (Has Elemental Sight which allows the Traveler to detect elemental traces)

5. Nahida's type 1 conceptual erasure should be removed, as Rukkadevata's realm of consciousness wasn't actually erased; only her consciousness and overall existence were erased.

fine but...did you notice something? aside from shenhe 7-A feat that is tsunami, there isnt a SINGLE character having a 7-A feat, you know well that chainscaling to 7-A came to my thread, and shenhe is the basis of it? why dont you then upgrade everyone from 7-A to 4-C then? or are you just reading your own shit and applying it like crazy? please check other crts before making utter nonsense for this, sorry for slight toxicity but this is ridicilous you even went and like yeah **** woomicas thread let me make this.
HARD DISAGREE FOR EVERYTHING I SAID

 

[Sahlwrld]

Well i agree, only Archons level or above deserve the 4-A tier after all.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Disagree on this part since i disagree with whole removal of 7-A from sumeru traveler onwards, keeping 4-A for neuvi and skirk is fine tho

Fine, not sure abt immo 9

by the description this is clear overtime feat, it cant work, plus countless stars and endless sea of stars sounds like a crazy flowery language

So your saying, that a Shouki no Kami, a designed mecha to sustain actual gnosis and what the **** do you mean magic that allows archon to resonate? Do you not realise that without Focalors destroying her throne and giving up gnosis, neuvilette would NOT have his authority restored, AND NOT TO MENTION usage of Mavuika's gnosis to protect natlan, i dont get where this shit is coming from.
and let me tell you something. there is a clear difference between dieties like Guoba and actual Gods that can use gnosis i think you can understand that too.
this is pure disagree towards traveler downgrade, even by dying 169 times, he was still able to tank scara hits, and only by combined KNOWLEDGE, he could beat scara, clearly an alright feat. also Wanderer legit fought inside a dream that is deemed to be as real as a real world, so he should stay 4-A

unless the stars inside the realm are real, im neutral

this one...welp idk its fine I guess

SKULL MOMENT, litteraly Arlecchino is number 4. far above likes of scara and childe, the fact that she could beat up a traveler while severely holding back, who was still able to take on Shouki no Kami, Apep, Narwhal, even dare challenge furina despite not knowing shes just a human...this this is crazy

A FEAT FROM 4 YEARS???? YOU DONT REALISE HE GETS STRONGER? DO YOU READ LORE? ONG your CRAAAAZY just look at this OMG
YOU LEGIT GIVE NAHIDA 4-A FOR NO PROOF OF FIGHTING ALONGSIDE APEP, YET YOU FIND THIS AN OUTLIER? NAH IM DONE IM DONE IM DONE IM CRASHING OUT FOR THE FIRST TIME CUZ OF SCALING PIXELS.

******* ass take honeslty, he was fighting narwhal for a VERY long time, i think i have repeated this GAZZILION times.

He shouldnt even be 4-A in the begining so sure, higher rating can be applied tho

Tought abt this, ig sure its not like faith of people aint gonna boost archon power into sky and back

fine but...did you notice something? aside from shenhe 7-A feat that is tsunami, there isnt a SINGLE character having a 7-A feat, you know well that chainscaling to 7-A came to my thread, and shenhe is the basis of it? why dont you then upgrade everyone from 7-A to 4-C then? or are you just reading your own shit and applying it like crazy? please check other crts before making utter nonsense for this, sorry for slight toxicity but this is ridicilous you even went and like yeah **** woomicas thread let me make this.
HARD DISAGREE FOR EVERYTHING I SAID

"Whoah. Calm the **** down Mangle." ~ Toy Freddy Fuckboy

 

[Puppet43]

woomy cooking

 

[Woomica]

"Whoah. Calm the **** down Mangle." ~ Toy Freddy Fuckboy

had this mf let my crt pass and then make this while telling me what is he going to add and me correcting his mistakes beforehand would make me normal, but no Garrixian inherited crack from drog dilla from mars and made this

 

[DaReaperMan]

had this mf let my crt pass and then make this while telling me what is he going to add and me correcting his mistakes beforehand would make me normal, but no Garrixian inherited crack from drog dilla from mars and made this

 

[Furina003]

I think this is better.
But I don't agree with Tartaglia's part, he has been fighting the narwhal for a long time and he should be able to defend it.
I'm not sure Wanderer can maintain 4A, because he's not strong enough to be on par with Archon, Wanderer is just a false god, nothing more and nothing less. Even though it has been said to have the majesty of a real god, I don't think that's enough to be equal to an archon. If 4C Adeptus is accepted, it looks like Wanderer will be able to scale from them.

 

[Woomica]

I think this is better.
But I don't agree with Tartaglia's part, he has been fighting the narwhal for a long time and he should be able to defend it.
I'm not sure Wanderer can maintain 4A, because he's not strong enough to be on par with Archon, Wanderer is just a false god, nothing more and nothing less. Even though it has been said to have the majesty of a real god, I don't think that's enough to be equal to an archon. If 4C Adeptus is accepted, it looks like Wanderer will be able to scale away from them.

Ig getting gnosis, being said to posses power of a TRUE GOD and then defeating your evil self isnt enough of a feat, or how despite losing 168(9 times idk anymore) despite tanking his hits isnt a feat, or how ******* getting enough IQ to fight a god isnt a feat, or being confident to challenge a god is not feat despite not knowing furina was an ordinary human...but 4-A nahida from fighting apep with 0 source of it is...great
and before someone asks wheres 4-A nahida from, it was from here

 

[GarrixianXD]

by the description this is clear overtime feat, it cant work, plus countless stars and endless sea of stars sounds like a crazy flowery language

The sea of stars is endless; the original text says "无尽", which means endless in a strictly infinite context. It only said that the endless sea of stars will be completely extinguished at the end of time, while the extinguishment of the innumerable stars that were mentioned wasn't said to have a significantly long timeframe. And the flowery language argument of yours is incoherent, especially when it mentions darkness and the laws of the universe.

So your saying, that a Shouki no Kami, a designed mecha to sustain actual gnosis and what the **** do you mean magic that allows archon to resonate? Do you not realise that without Focalors destroying her throne and giving up gnosis, neuvilette would NOT have his authority restored, AND NOT TO MENTION usage of Mavuika's gnosis to protect natlan, i dont get where this shit is coming from.

Mavuika only used the Gnosis to close the portal from the Abyss, hence protected Natlan. Nothing correlated to power here.

and let me tell you something. there is a clear difference between dieties like Guoba and actual Gods that can use gnosis i think you can understand that too.
this is pure disagree towards traveler downgrade, even by dying 169 times, he was still able to tank scara hits, and only by combined KNOWLEDGE, he could beat scara, clearly an alright feat. also Wanderer legit fought inside a dream that is deemed to be as real as a real world, so he should stay 4-A

Struggling to see how this debunks my claim.

SKULL MOMENT, litteraly Arlecchino is number 4. far above likes of scara and childe, the fact that she could beat up a traveler while severely holding back, who was still able to take on Shouki no Kami, Apep, Narwhal, even dare challenge furina despite not knowing shes just a human...this this is crazy

A FEAT FROM 4 YEARS???? YOU DONT REALISE HE GETS STRONGER? DO YOU READ LORE? ONG your CRAAAAZY just look at this OMG
YOU LEGIT GIVE NAHIDA 4-A FOR NO PROOF OF FIGHTING ALONGSIDE APEP, YET YOU FIND THIS AN OUTLIER? NAH IM DONE IM DONE IM DONE IM CRASHING OUT FOR THE FIRST TIME CUZ OF SCALING PIXELS.

It is an outlier, as Arlecchino wasn't shown any signs of being on the level of that of Archons. And Childe is undoubtedly below Arlecchino; sure, Childe perhaps did fight against the Narwhal for a long time but there's a real lack of consistency with this.

fine but...did you notice something? aside from shenhe 7-A feat that is tsunami, there isnt a SINGLE character having a 7-A feat, you know well that chainscaling to 7-A came to my thread, and shenhe is the basis of it? why dont you then upgrade everyone from 7-A to 4-C then? or are you just reading your own shit and applying it like crazy? please check other crts before making utter nonsense for this, sorry for slight toxicity but this is ridicilous you even went and like yeah **** woomicas thread let me make this.
HARD DISAGREE FOR EVERYTHING I SAID

You and Gianny were the masterminds behind the 7-A rating for absolutely everyone (even mfking Amber), not me. So it should be your responsibility to clean up that mess since I don't even know why people are scaling to Shenhe's 7-A feat at all (not to mention she's 4-A as of now), especially if you look at the attack potency justification for various 7-A ratings.

But I don't agree with Tartaglia's part, he has been fighting the narwhal for a long time and he should be able to defend it.

It doesn't really matter how long Tartaglia withstands against the Narwhal; Arlecchino didn't display a feat or have statements supporting she can rival that of gods; Childe shouldn't be on that level, it brings rather inconsistency.

Actually, yk what, fine then. The 4-A rating for Tartaglia and Arlecchino can be kept since Arlecchino did say she was holding back against Fontaine Traveller and everyone; no Scaramouche though, as he didn't play a role in the Fontaine arc.

If 4C Adeptus is accepted, it looks like Wanderer will be able to scale from them.

Highly doubt.

 

[Woomica]

The sea of stars is endless; the original text says "无尽", which means endless in a strictly infinite context. It only said that the endless sea of stars will be completely extinguished at the end of time, while the extinguishment of the innumerable stars that were mentioned wasn't said to have a significantly long timeframe. And the flowery language argument of yours is incoherent, especially when it mentions darkness and the laws of the universe.

Whatever, still an overtime feat, needs more context.

Mavuika only used the Gnosis to close the portal from the Abyss, hence protected Natlan. Nothing correlated to power here.

maybe wrong cutscene idk, here she uses power of her own (gnosis too since its litteraly part of her) to make this feat

Struggling to see how this debunks my claim.

Tell me this, why do you think the seven actualy became the seven, think about it? do you think a regular ******* god, a god with just a title (Havria) or a god like osial who was just called god because he was powerfull, guoba the god of stove, whos only feat was helping liyue during the war, how are they IN THE SLIGHTEST comparable to the saying of "TRUE GOD" a TRUE GOD get it? It isnt just a god as a tittle, but a sign of absolute power, what do you think he became when he took a gnosis? Super cool mecha? well yeah but with a power of a ******* GOD theres a difference of that.

It is an outlier, as Arlecchino wasn't shown any signs of being on the level of that of Archons. And Childe is undoubtedly below Arlecchino; sure, Childe perhaps did fight against the Narwhal for a long time but there's a real lack of consistency with this.

it is not. childe with foul legacy is supposed to be far stronger than his base and delusion form and you know that, it is power he obtained from Skirk herself that she taught him that, the fact that he came out alive from fighting narwhal is a clear sign of that. Arlecchino upscales because she can DESTROY traveler who at that time already beat shouki no kami, idk what else do you need

You and Gianny were the masterminds behind the 7-A rating for absolutely everyone (even mfking Amber), not me. So it should be your responsibility to clean up that mess since I don't even know why people are scaling to Shenhe's 7-A feat at all (not to mention she's 4-A as of now), especially if you look at the attack potency justification for various 7-A ratings.

Because she got upgraded to 6-B, i wanted to fix that, 4-A upgrade happened, i wanted to remove it, 4-A downgrade happened, I ACTUALLY MADE A CRT, guess what, guess what, you made this crt.

It doesn't really matter how long Tartaglia withstands against the Narwhal; Arlecchino didn't display a feat or have statements supporting she can rival that of gods; Childe shouldn't be on that level, it brings rather inconsistency.

i dont need to repeat that, even ******* tiering system says that you dont have to explicitly be on a same level than a character itsellf in order to scale to him, thats why "At most" existed, but you nuked it with 4-A upgrade, now ill quote tierin stuff:
Furthermore, characters from a higher tier are not necessarily invincible to entities of lower tiers, as certain powers and abilities can potentially bypass the difference in strength entirely, allowing the latter to contend with or overpower such characters. See this page for more information.

Moreover, many tiers have a massive difference between their baselines and caps. Hence, being far more powerful than a character in one tier does not necessarily qualify one for a higher rating.

For general questions regarding the Tiering System's upper levels, it is advisable to read this page as well.

Actually, yk what, fine then. The 4-A rating for Tartaglia and Arlecchino can be kept since Arlecchino did say she was holding back against Fontaine Traveller and everyone; no Scaramouche though, as he didn't play a role in the Fontaine arc.

okay why did i lose braincells arguing this just for you to accept this, guess i rly have to sleep now, you are incredible ngl you made me worked up over nothing, AGAIN

Highly doubt.

ballader key, yeah, wanderer, probably since hes stronger than traveler as he didnt die gazzilion times to shouki unlike his bum ass

 

[GarrixianXD]

Whatever, still an overtime feat, needs more context.

All-Devouring Narwhal

All-Devouring Narwhal is a Weekly Boss challenge found in Shadow of Another World. Trounce Domains contain unusually powerful opponents. After successfully completing the challenge, you can obtain abundant rewards. Players can complete this domain as many times as they want, but can only collect...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

I suppose this can be supporting context, as those starry skies resemble a galaxy.

 

[GarrixianXD]

maybe wrong cutscene idk, here she uses power of her own (gnosis too since its litteraly part of her) to make this feat

An Archon don't need a gnosis to retain their power. Their powers rather come from the partial elemental authority stolen from the dragon sovereigns.

Tell me this, why do you think the seven actualy became the seven, think about it? do you think a regular ******* god, a god with just a title (Havria) or a god like osial who was just called god because he was powerfull, guoba the god of stove, whos only feat was helping liyue during the war, how are they IN THE SLIGHTEST comparable to the saying of "TRUE GOD" a TRUE GOD get it? It isnt just a god as a tittle, but a sign of absolute power, what do you think he became when he took a gnosis? Super cool mecha? well yeah but with a power of a ******* GOD theres a difference of that.

Calamitous Tread

Calamitous Tread is the fourth part in the Teyvat storyline Archon Quest Chapter IV: Act IV - Cataclysm's Quickening. Return to the Infirmary Go to the cafeteria Return to the dormitories to rest Check on the situation outside Go to the office Go to the Forbidden Zone Go to the opera house...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

Because she got upgraded to 6-B, i wanted to fix that, 4-A upgrade happened, i wanted to remove it, 4-A downgrade happened, I ACTUALLY MADE A CRT, guess what, guess what, you made this crt.

Right.

i dont need to repeat that, even ******* tiering system says that you dont have to explicitly be on a same level than a character itsellf in order to scale to him, thats why "At most" existed, but you nuked it with 4-A upgrade, now ill quote tierin stuff:
Furthermore, characters from a higher tier are not necessarily invincible to entities of lower tiers, as certain powers and abilities can potentially bypass the difference in strength entirely, allowing the latter to contend with or overpower such characters. See this page for more information.

Moreover, many tiers have a massive difference between their baselines and caps. Hence, being far more powerful than a character in one tier does not necessarily qualify one for a higher rating.

For general questions regarding the Tiering System's upper levels, it is advisable to read this page as well.

I obviously know this, and the first passage talks about hax abilities.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Anyways...

@DarkDragonMedeus @Catzlaflame @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Firestorm808 @UchihaSlayer96 Evaluatons pls? Thanks in-advance~

 

[Woomica]

An Archon don't need a gnosis to retain their power. Their powers rather come from the partial elemental authority stolen from the dragon sovereigns.

this doesnt load on my phone lol can you quote the part?

Calamitous Tread

Calamitous Tread is the fourth part in the Teyvat storyline Archon Quest Chapter IV: Act IV - Cataclysm's Quickening. Return to the Infirmary Go to the cafeteria Return to the dormitories to rest Check on the situation outside Go to the office Go to the Forbidden Zone Go to the opera house...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

same as above

Right.

I obviously know this, and the first passage talks about hax abilities.

i didnt remove that part, my bad

 

[Woomica]

Anyways...

@DarkDragonMedeus @Catzlaflame @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Firestorm808 @UchihaSlayer96 Evaluatons pls? Thanks in-advance~

and you refuse to tag them on my crt when i ask you to...sexcellent

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Agreed with everything not crossed out.

 

[Mizuki67]

Honestly i feel like this make much more sense.

 

[Woomica]

An Archon don't need a gnosis to retain their power. Their powers rather come from the partial elemental authority stolen from the dragon sovereigns.

Calamitous Tread

Calamitous Tread is the fourth part in the Teyvat storyline Archon Quest Chapter IV: Act IV - Cataclysm's Quickening. Return to the Infirmary Go to the cafeteria Return to the dormitories to rest Check on the situation outside Go to the office Go to the Forbidden Zone Go to the opera house...

genshin-impact.fandom.com

So the stolen sovereign power is basis for archons today, is also stored inside gnosis, a corpse of third descender, and also theres the fact that Zhongli that he never expected his power to grow much after losing gnosis when you ascend him to lvl 90.

After letting go of my Gnosis, I never expected to see a day like this again. Thank you, friend. Ah, yes, I have a new contract here. Care to take a look at it together?

Yeah this clearly tells us that Gnosis can indeed grant a jump in power, but if you still dont see it i can at least propose 6-B for scara from Osial since Shouki is clearly stated to posses power of a "True God".
Same would go with Traveler who obtained knowledge of people from sumeru to defeat him since this is an IQ buff, not physical one.
tho making a separate sumeru key with one being 7-A and another (i.e Post sumeru onwards) 4-A is perfectly fine

 

[Woomica]

bump

 

[GarrixianXD]

So the stolen sovereign power is basis for archons today, is also stored inside gnosis, a corpse of third descender, and also theres the fact that Zhongli that he never expected his power to grow much after losing gnosis when you ascend him to lvl 90.

Yeah this clearly tells us that Gnosis can indeed grant a jump in power, but if you still dont see it i can at least propose 6-B for scara from Osial since Shouki is clearly stated to posses power of a "True God".
Same would go with Traveler who obtained knowledge of people from sumeru to defeat him since this is an IQ buff, not physical one.
tho making a separate sumeru key with one being 7-A and another (i.e Post sumeru onwards) 4-A is perfectly fine

My my... did you just outplayed yourself here.

 

[Woomica]

My my... did you just outplayed yourself here.

Uh i wrote that minutes after in woke up
tf is that wording mr mafia boss
anyway i wanted to say that his ascencion voicelines are indicating that losing gnosis does indeed take one's power away hence why he said his power grew despite already losing a lot of power from giving gnosis away.
i can find a voiceline of him stating that he isnt as powerful as he was when he had gnosis
similar case is neuvi lvl 90 ascencion where he verbatim states hes fully fledged dragon.

 

[Dog3352]

I will not participate in the CRT, I will comment specifically on this part:

The new feat for the 4-A scaling should be established for those aforementioned Fontaine arc characters, that will revolve around this description, when the All-Devouring Narwhall swallowed, absorbed and extinguished countless stars and eventually the endless sea of stars.

"A philosopher in the faraway ancient world once posited that where there is life, there is death; naturally where there is death, there is life.
If not, then the fleeting light cannot resist the eternal darkness, and all withers into nothingness at the end of time.
The rules among the stars dictate that nature must be conserved, but the laws of the universe have never been conserved.
In a sealed box, destruction always overpowers new life. Millennia upon millennia of prosperity are but an instant in a span of billions of years. The greatest of achievements, the proudest accomplishments, in time all will tarnish, decay, dissipate, and ultimately fade into oblivion.
Thus there are things floating in among the stars, once adorned with countless prestigious titles from innumerable civilizations, shedding tears for their ordained demise.
Their tears stream down, out of desperation, out of hope, because all desperation and hope alike will be utterly extinguished along with the innumerable stars.
Their tears stream down out of sorrow, out of joy, because both will eventually scatter into the cold, dark endless void.
Every tiny yet beautiful silhouette and every moment worth remembering will fade with time, even stars.
And then there are these so-called "gods" that are determined to save everything worth saving, and devour everything that should be devoured.
Until the end of time, until the sea of stars recess into nothing but dying embers, until a newborn "world" moves for the first time in the stomach of the whale."

Literally nothing here says that the Narwhall will swallow or extinguish the "endless sea of stars", just that the stars will extinguish over time, and that in the midst of all this, the Narwhall will cry due to everything being completely extinguished over time.

He is capable of swallowing stars, but why is his ability to swallow and store things being scaled for physical statistics?

 

[GarrixianXD]

And then there are these so-called "gods" that are determined to save everything worth saving, and devour everything that should be devoured. Until the end of time, until the sea of stars recess into nothing but dying embers, until a newborn "world" moves for the first time in the stomach of the whale.

I think this part should be clear that it is implying the Narwhall did in fact swallowed and extinguished the stars.

Their tears stream down out of sorrow, out of joy, because both will eventually scatter into the cold, dark endless void.

The endless seas of stars come from this part; the original Chinese text says 虚空 which means void in the context of a space vacuum, implying the space the sea of stars reside upon is endless.

 

[Dog3352]

I think this part should be clear that it is implying the Narwhall did in fact swallowed and extinguished the stars.

Definitely not, nothing indicates that "devour everything that should be devoured" includes the entire sea of stars, the statement itself says several times that the stars will be extingued over time, and not all swallowed by the whale.

If not, then the fleeting light cannot resist the eternal darkness, and all withers into nothingness at the end of time.

Millennia upon millennia of prosperity are but an instant in a span of billions of years. The greatest of achievements, the proudest accomplishments, in time all will tarnish, decay, dissipate, and ultimately fade into oblivion.

Every tiny yet beautiful silhouette and every moment worth remembering will fade with time, even stars

 

[GarrixianXD]

Sea of Stars is endless, the 4-A scaling comes from the countless stars that were already devoured, not that the entire Sea of Stars was devoured. And the passage mentioned an ancient world so it obviously was talking about the past. Also, not to mention that the All-Devouring Narwhal's raw name in CN is 吞星之鲸, which directly translates to Star-Devouring Whale.

 

[Dog3352]

Sea of Stars is endless, the 4-A scaling comes from the countless stars that were already devoured, not that the entire Sea of Stars was devoured. And it was said the world was ancient so it obviously was talking about the past.

He is capable of swallowing stars, but why is his ability to swallow and store things being scaled for physical statistics?

The part that says "ancient world" only talks about what a philosopher said in the past ("where there is life, there is death; naturally, where there is death, there is life"), after that it is basically a narration about what the future of Narwhall would be.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sea of Stars is endless, the 4-A scaling comes from the countless stars that were already devoured, not that the entire Sea of Stars was devoured. And the passage mentioned an ancient world so it obviously was talking about the past. Also, not to mention that the All-Devouring Narwhal's raw name in CN is 吞星之鲸, which directly translates to Star-Devouring Whale.

Couldn't help but think of this Sea of Stars when you said it.

 

[Puppet43]

All-Devouring Narwhal's raw name in CN is 吞星之鲸, which directly translates to Star-Devouring Whale.

Dude, thats straight up a nominal fallacy

 

[Weaver261]

Sea of Stars is endless, the 4-A scaling comes from the countless stars that were already devoured, not that the entire Sea of Stars was devoured. And the passage mentioned an ancient world so it obviously was talking about the past. Also, not to mention that the All-Devouring Narwhal's raw name in CN is 吞星之鲸, which directly translates to Star-Devouring Whale.

Isn't this over time feat? Description seems to imply stars are extinguishing over time. Even it has dimensional storage, it's not big enough to store countless stars. Tbh, we didn't even get to see any stars inside the stomach. It's kinda iffy

 

[GarrixianXD]

Isn't this over time feat? Description seems to imply stars are extinguishing over time. Even it has dimensional storage, it's not big enough to store countless stars. Tbh, we didn't even get to see any stars inside the stomach. It's kinda iffy

The countless stars take on a form of a starry sky, that is said to represent that of a galaxy. 4-A is enough for an overtime 3-C feat.

 

[Weaver261]

The countless stars take on a form of a starry sky, that is said to represent that of a galaxy. 4-A is enough for an overtime 3-C feat.

Description stated that "In a span of billion of years" it took billion of years. So even with 3-C overtime, 4-A is iffy asf. I also think this make more sense becuz Narwhal takes time in sucking energies just as it did in Teyvat.

Millennia upon millennia of prosperity are but an instant in a span of billions of years. The greatest of achievements, the proudest accomplishments, in time all will tarnish, decay, dissipate, and ultimately fade into oblivion

In this sentence, the word "things" is referring to the whales. The proof of that these things (whales) shedding tears which is the item where this description comes from.

Thus there are things floating in among the stars, once adorned with countless prestigious titles from innumerable civilizations, shedding tears for their ordained demise.

Nothing here implied Whale is the god. Becuz it has been specifically stated Narwhal's instinct is to devour. Thus, narwhal can't save anything. It's also clear that whales are stated as "things" while these are stated as "gods". If you read them continuously, it's clearly talking about two type of beings. "Thus there are things shedding tears", "And then there are these so called gods".

And then there are these so-called "gods" that are determined to save everything worth saving, and devour everything that should be devoured.
Until the end of time, until the sea of stars recess into nothing but dying embers, until a newborn "world" moves for the first time in the stomach of the whale.

Even the last line only stated, a new born world moves in the stomach of whale. The whole paragraph said nothing about narwhal swallowing countless stars honestly.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Description stated that "In a span of billion of years" it took billion of years. So even with 3-C overtime, 4-A is iffy asf. I also think this make more sense becuz Narwhal takes time in sucking energies just as it did in Teyvat.

Millennia upon millennia of prosperity are but an instant in a span of billions of years. The greatest of achievements, the proudest accomplishments, in time all will tarnish, decay, dissipate, and ultimately fade into oblivion.

It rather says the achievements and accomplishments that took billions of years to complete were destroyed in an instant. It didn't mention that the destruction took billions of years. Even with that aside, assume that it took 3.1536e+16 to 3.1536e+17 seconds to destroy that galaxy, it'll be 4-B, which nonetheless still makes the tiering consistent.

In this sentence, the word "things" is referring to the whales. The proof of that these things (whales) shedding tears which is the item where this description comes from.

The whales are forced to destroy those cosmic civilisations, as it seems since they're ordained to do so. But it clearly implies that the whale is doing the destruction.

 

[Dog3352]

It rather says the achievements and accomplishments that took billions of years to complete were destroyed in an instant. It didn't mention that the destruction took billions of years. Even with that aside, assume that it took 3.1536e+16 to 3.1536e+17 seconds to destroy that galaxy, it'll be 4-B, which nonetheless still makes the tiering consistent

In fact, the statement says that "millennia of years are instants of billions of years", whereas it says that they "are instants in a span of billions of years".

An example of this would be saying: "A second is an instant of 1 hour", basically saying that X (one second) is just a small "percentage" of Y (1 hour).

 

[Breakdown]

I disagree with post Liyue Traveler not being 4-A. In Inazuma, they defeated Signora, who made a joke out of Venti, and were able to keep up with, although not defeat, Raiden Shogun in base, so they scale above one Archon, and downscale from another. If they were 7-A, they would not have survived a single hit from a serious 4-A character like Raiden Shogun.

In Sumeru, they beat Shouki No Kami twice. Shouki No Kami is stated to be a true God by both his in game description and Nahida, with the only thing stopping him from being 100% on the level as Rukkhadevatta was that didn’t have as much knowledge because it wasn’t yet finished being implanted in him. It wasn’t even a matter of power. An Archon’s Gnosis is the seal of their authority, and a great power source, so Shouki No Kami becoming divine by that isn’t far fetched.

Wanderer should also be 4-A since he helped Traveler beat Shouki No Kami the second time.

All in all, pretty good scaling for both.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I think it should be quite obvious that Venti didn't even give a shit about his gnosis and could've easily stomped Signora if he wanted to. Not to mention Venti is only 7-A; it's Barbatos that's 4-A.

I suppose Shouko No Kami possibly keeping his 4-A status is fine from the second scan. Though anyone who is even shown to fight Wanderer should have their tiers downgraded due to being outliers, except for Apep I guess.

 

[Breakdown]

I think it should be quite obvious that Venti didn't even give a shit about his gnosis and could've easily stomped Signora if he wanted to. Not to mention Venti is only 7-A; it's Barbatos that's 4-A.

I suppose Shouko No Kami possibly keeping his 4-A status is fine from the second scan. Though anyone who is even shown to fight Wanderer should have their tiers downgraded due to being outliers, except for Apep I guess.

Don’t forget that Il Dottore and the higher ups of the Akademiya were pooling all of their collective intellects and resources into making Shouki No Kami for the specific purpose of creating an entity on the level of an archon. They were not dumb, nor were they messing around.

 

[Furina003]

having read some of the arguments given, I agree scaramouce gets level 4a