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Ichigo kurosaki vs Arturia Pendragon

Promestein said:
Saber only had such poor energy available because of Shirou's incompetency. All Servants are limited by their Master's energy supplies but we assume they have a sufficient supply to actually allow combat, and few Servant's stores are so poor that they can't go on in combat for more than a few minutes, that's ludicrous downplay.
Click to expand...
1) Saber is the one here and has numbers officially given for her- the numbers don't support hours of combat. There is no evidence that Shirou is such a poor magus that he affected her stats that severely given that in both the fourth and fifth war she was fighting at relatively the same level against other servants. A sufficient supply to allow combat is their full store- that store just is not likely to allow for hours of sustained full-power combat, certainly not days, which is what she apparently needs against Ichigo since even prior to achieving Bankai he could go for days. That's hardly unique to Servants- most characters don't have feats of fighting for hours on end without rest. They just have a much harsher penalty for eventually tiring out.

2) Servants not having the energy to go full-power for hours on end fits perfectly well into the narrative- Berserker is special for just that reason- he goes full-tilt all the time and as such requires practically infinite power to keep going. Saber even has endings where she tries to use more energy than she has and fades away because nothing was left and few, if any, of her specific battles take hours of continuous combat- especially during the first night where we're given explicit numbers for what occurs.

3) This especially doesn't seem like she can pull it off when you consider Ichigo's Bankai boost likely puts him well ahead of her in speed to a degree that Berserker did not- the relatively little speed reduction of Berserker hitting graves was enough for Saber to gain an advantage. Ichigo went from being relatively even with Rukia's brother to so fast that he was leaving dozens of afterimages simultaneously. Ichigo does that naturally and with apparent ease. Saber has to give up her armor and go full-tilt to reach a (presumably) 3x boost.
 
What is her answer to Ichigo's AoE attack?

While I'm pretty sure her precog is good enough to render Ichigo cqc useless, it is in character for Ichigo to spam Getsuga later on.
 
@Homu either dodging the attack, or countering with Excalibur. The latter being unusable here.
 
Excalibur cant be spammed as frequently as GT tho and it has a charge time which is enough time for ichigo to use GT
 
@Yomi the Excaliur is far stronger than any getsuga tensho. And there's no reason to bring it up in this match when she can't use it.
 
your the one that brought up the non-factor,i was just addressing it.

and dodging is such a non-topic in a versus fight.i can easily counter it by saying "she wont dodge everything"
 
And I also said "the latter is unusable here"

you're gonna have to bring more evidence than just "she can't dodge everything". By that logic, I can say that Ichigo can't spam all the time without any evidence.
 
Literally What? Your the one that brought up the dodging thing.Your the one that should provide claims for its Absolution

Its literally common sense to assume dodging isn't always a 100% tactic,If you were in a a dodge ball game where you can see the ball that was thrown at you,It dosent mean that you will always dodge it especially if it was rapidly thrown (such is the case with GT)

and Im not even denying the dodging tactic,im saying its not an absolute thing,You are the one that needs evidence here not me lmao and sorry but you analogy is equally stupid

Ichigo spams GT like....in every fight he has after he learned how to use it idk what you're even saying
 
@Imade nice photoshop you got there. My comment came way before Friendly's reply.

Gargoyle already addressed your comment with the spiderman stuff
 
Well first off, if you notice, those are two separate images... No photoshop needed, just screencaps. Gargoyle addressed the Spider-Man analogy, but that doesn't answer the question I came up to you, nor did you address Friendly's reply, you simply ignored it.
 
ok, also try to not post images like those in the future. The fandom bot for some reason considers those as some form of rule breaking shenanigan, and some of the users got banned for that dumb reason.

Second the comment Friendly posted was just him ignoring the fact that Saber has feats of dodging things that would've speed blitzed her normally had she not have her precognition, like Assassin's Tsubami Gaeshi, an attack that would've killed Saber efficiently due to the attack creating multiple possibilities on where he would strike at the same time. And we even see Saber deal the fatal blow to the same Assassin without being scratched despite the Tsubami Gaeshi being used.

If she can react to and dodge something like that, she can most definitely dodge normal slashes from Ichigo, and if push comes to shove, she'll increase her stats with magic to lessen any blows that could hit her. Or even better, have her supernatural luck used to avoid some inevitable outcomes. Like getting hit with getsuga tensho.

Like Gargoyle said, Spiderman is not a good comparison to Saber, who has been able to avoid much worse scenarios with her abilities. On top of the fact that other characters in bleach that lack any precog can still be able to somewhat react to Ichigo despite him getting a speed advantage.
 
I'd argue that the interaction with Tsubami Gaeshi is a result due to her High Luck parameter allowing her to warp reality in a way to better her result similar to the interaction with Gae Bolg. This with her instinct and being of similar speed to Assassin allow her to dodge.

The difference with Ichigo is he can increase his speed several folds here and even increase it further with Shunpo.

Speed is equalized with Shikai Ichigo. Shunpo makes Ichigo FTE to characters faster than him even. Bankai increases speed even more. Then he can use Shunpo with Bankai for more speed. The speed disparity would be too large for Saber to keep even. Even giving her the benefit of the doubt that she could intially keep up due to Instinct and her Luck parameter, it can't continue since she physically could not keep up with him for any longer amount of time. This would be similar to the beginning of Bankai Ichigo vs Byakuya. Shikai Ichigo was already of similar speed to Byakuya and Bankai just made him FTE and creating several afterimages that Byakuya could not keep up in anyway.
 
That's entirely wrong, Arturia was only able to survive and kill Assassin in that moment because Excalibur had deformed his sword, giving a small imperfection in the technique. The impressive precog feat is her seeing the results of Tsubame Gaeshi
 
Ichigo has hardly shown to blitz anyone with shunpo and bankai. Byakuya was still able to react to him despite the bankai boost, and he lacked precognition to begin with. When has stamina ever been an issue for a servant? Especially when they can fight for a day straight without tiring out?
 
Yes, I know, I referred to that. Though she released Invisible Air there for the speedboost
 
@Dat the scene with grimmjow wasn't even a blitz since he still reacted to the blade.

Unless Byakuya has precog, or fate manipulation/supernatural luck. That feat doesn't really help against saber, who has those on top of stat amping to avoid any blows.
 
The point is Ichigo has blitzed someone before.

So the whole "Ichigo has hardly shown to blitz anyone with shunpo and bankai" is kinda misleading.
 
The thing is, Ichigo's AoE is quite big. Unless I missed something, I don't recall Saber dodging an attack that covered huge area.

Also, no one factoring Ichigo's country level dura with Blut Vene.

Wait, no one even factoring Avalon too.
 
@Dat oh wait, that's right shirou did sense Archer. I only remembered that Saber and shirou ran away from the graveyard as to avoid the impact.
 
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