-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
I Shall Seal the Heavens CRT
- Thread starter Zaratthustra
- Start date
- 3,074
- 676
For his Spirit Realm profile, there's only a few statistics left to find, so do you think it'd be a good idea to just put it up and maybe try to get some attention to it later?
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 16,919
- 7,368
My tests are done so I can see about taking another look in maybe a few hours, but having just finished my tests I sorta don't want to do anything right now in all honesty. You can wait for me if you like, or just go with what I already accepted and do the other stuff in another thread, your choice.
- 229
- 27
The most of statements "infinite/countless/etc" is only a way to write in these novels, hyperboles and other literary figures.
The thing is that in the final battle against AllHeaven it is only mentioned a Universe, and the part where they fight is a portion of this Universe which AllHeaven molded and was the boss, they are at the border of it (of the real Universe).
And after that Meng Hao gathered memories of AllHeaven and he saw that in the Universe center there is a entity. " It was at this point that he remembered where he came from. He... came from the depths of the Universe! "
" "The Universe...." After some thought, a look of unprecedented anticipation appeared within his eyes. He didn't fear the truth. In contrast, it filled him with incredible hope. "
" He looked forward with keen anticipation to traveling out into the Universe, to reaching its center. Perhaps one day, he would have the chance to fight that so-called Immortal! "
Author emphasizes this thing about "Universe" in this battle and after that, before this, Universe = AllHeaven's "universe"
Meng Hao is not Universe lvl, let alone 1-c which is Multiverse+. There is not even a feat of speed with which one can say that characters there traveled through something as big as a universe inside AllHeaven's "universe".
The thing is that in the final battle against AllHeaven it is only mentioned a Universe, and the part where they fight is a portion of this Universe which AllHeaven molded and was the boss, they are at the border of it (of the real Universe).
And after that Meng Hao gathered memories of AllHeaven and he saw that in the Universe center there is a entity. " It was at this point that he remembered where he came from. He... came from the depths of the Universe! "
" "The Universe...." After some thought, a look of unprecedented anticipation appeared within his eyes. He didn't fear the truth. In contrast, it filled him with incredible hope. "
" He looked forward with keen anticipation to traveling out into the Universe, to reaching its center. Perhaps one day, he would have the chance to fight that so-called Immortal! "
Author emphasizes this thing about "Universe" in this battle and after that, before this, Universe = AllHeaven's "universe"
Meng Hao is not Universe lvl, let alone 1-c which is Multiverse+. There is not even a feat of speed with which one can say that characters there traveled through something as big as a universe inside AllHeaven's "universe".
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #87
I will post here a summary of what will change:
1.Dao itself would be 1-A.
2.Transcendors (only those that have transcended in body, cultivation base and soul) and above are 1-A as they are Daosource itself.
3.Dao Realm Cultivators are High 2-A and those of same existance and power.
4.Vast Expanse (the Multiverse) is a high end of 2-A.
Now on Meng Hao Keys - I will start with the easies changes and progressively to the hard ones.
1. His Ancestor and Unknown Realms Key are both at 1-A as they are above Transcendence (Daosource). Those are easy to to classify.
2. His Ancient Key is able to passively to supress and incint changes in Vast Expanse and is above all Dao Realm Cultivators even those at Peak 9-Essences Paragons (strongest being that can exist within Vast Expanse. His Seal the Heavens Incantation can increase his overall power by a factor of 33. So, this would be a High End of 2-A.
3. His Immortal Key. Immediatly after he reached this Realm, he could shake the whole Ninth Mountain and Sea Realm. With Seal the Heavens Incantation he rocked the whole Mountain and Sea Realm. He also fought 5 Dao Lords at the same time in this key, with the strongest being 4-Dao Essence Cultivator. He used only his fleshly body for the early part of the fight when he started to use his cultivation base, he felt that he could destroy the whole Mountain and Sea Realm with a wave from a finger. This one is the hardest to classify.
1.Dao itself would be 1-A.
2.Transcendors (only those that have transcended in body, cultivation base and soul) and above are 1-A as they are Daosource itself.
3.Dao Realm Cultivators are High 2-A and those of same existance and power.
4.Vast Expanse (the Multiverse) is a high end of 2-A.
Now on Meng Hao Keys - I will start with the easies changes and progressively to the hard ones.
1. His Ancestor and Unknown Realms Key are both at 1-A as they are above Transcendence (Daosource). Those are easy to to classify.
2. His Ancient Key is able to passively to supress and incint changes in Vast Expanse and is above all Dao Realm Cultivators even those at Peak 9-Essences Paragons (strongest being that can exist within Vast Expanse. His Seal the Heavens Incantation can increase his overall power by a factor of 33. So, this would be a High End of 2-A.
3. His Immortal Key. Immediatly after he reached this Realm, he could shake the whole Ninth Mountain and Sea Realm. With Seal the Heavens Incantation he rocked the whole Mountain and Sea Realm. He also fought 5 Dao Lords at the same time in this key, with the strongest being 4-Dao Essence Cultivator. He used only his fleshly body for the early part of the fight when he started to use his cultivation base, he felt that he could destroy the whole Mountain and Sea Realm with a wave from a finger. This one is the hardest to classify.
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #88
Maybe if you would have read the Vast Expanse and True Universe part of CRT you would have seen that it was stated that the Universe that he speak is a place beyond it. The True Universe is a Universe that is bigger to say. Like how the Ninth Mountain and Sea has Universes within it, then the Mountain and Sea Realm has the Nine Mountains and Seas within it, then the Vast Expanse has the the Devil Immortal Continent, God Immortal Continent, Planet Vast Expanse. 33 Heavens, the many whirpools and wordls within it, at it's own the True Universe has countless Vast Expanse. It's a neverending seeds within seeds of Universes.Ronnijuro said:
- 5,357
- 730
- 3,074
- 676
Didn't know that Revelations feat was calced. Guess we could make a profile for him as well.
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #92
I will wait and see his opinion again and after that I will work to finish the profile just hoping he started to read it again.Antvasima said:
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 16,919
- 7,368
Yeah I'm not gonna be able to get to it right now and don't even know about tomorrow. I would honestly just say it's fine to put in place what I already accepted as of now then edit again later.
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #96
Okay, then I will start to work on it.
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #98
As this CRT is done, should I continue here with two little CRT that are really short for two of his equipments (Copper Mirror and Terracota Soldier) or make another one?Antvasima said:
Also, can you close one thread for me as the CRT is done, the fight can't continue right now.
The Thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2948380
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #100
I see, thanks.
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #102
Introductio
This CRT will be about Meng Hao Copper Mirror and Terracotta Soldier.
Copper Mirror
The Copper Mirror is a treasure that can duplicate any treasure/items. The copper mirror melts to form a black armor with shoulder pad resembling the head of a parrot, and a Parrot Helm. Its power is shocking, as it managed to elevate Meng Hao's cultivation to being invincible under Transcendor and from the Half-Ancestor Realm, to the Ancestor Realm upon using it in his fight with Allheaven.
Terracotta Soldier
Here you can see the terracotta soldier who is only half-step Dao Realm (he's almost one Essence). Not being in the same realm is existing in another plane of existence, not even being able to interact with someone who lives in a higher plane of existence. The Terracotta Soldier awakening and a little example of Ancient Realm Cultivator Power. Terracotta Soldier arrives to save Meng Hao. Terracotta Soldier's sword has the might to sever the natural Laws, the Dao and anything that exist. froze the entire ocean of a World that has the aura of an Ancient Realm.
Conclusion
The Copper Mirror's Wish Granting potency is enough that even the apex cultivators of 9-Essence Dao Paragons don't have. Meaning it's at least High 2-A in wish granting potency. It can increase the power of Meng Hao to the limit of Vast Expanse and can even make him who is already 1-A (Transcendor) to step in Ancestor Realm (the next Realm) a more profound potency of 1-A.
The Terracotta Soldier is a Quasy-Dao Realm Existence meaning someone that has almost one Essence. It also exists on another plane of existence and it has the power to sever the natural Laws, Dao and everything that exist.
This CRT will be about Meng Hao Copper Mirror and Terracotta Soldier.
Copper Mirror
The Copper Mirror is a treasure that can duplicate any treasure/items. The copper mirror melts to form a black armor with shoulder pad resembling the head of a parrot, and a Parrot Helm. Its power is shocking, as it managed to elevate Meng Hao's cultivation to being invincible under Transcendor and from the Half-Ancestor Realm, to the Ancestor Realm upon using it in his fight with Allheaven.
Copper Mirror - only the Wish granting ability |
Here you can see the terracotta soldier who is only half-step Dao Realm (he's almost one Essence). Not being in the same realm is existing in another plane of existence, not even being able to interact with someone who lives in a higher plane of existence. The Terracotta Soldier awakening and a little example of Ancient Realm Cultivator Power. Terracotta Soldier arrives to save Meng Hao. Terracotta Soldier's sword has the might to sever the natural Laws, the Dao and anything that exist. froze the entire ocean of a World that has the aura of an Ancient Realm.
Terracota Soldier - an automaton equipment that has the might of a Quasy-Dao Cultivator |
The Copper Mirror's Wish Granting potency is enough that even the apex cultivators of 9-Essence Dao Paragons don't have. Meaning it's at least High 2-A in wish granting potency. It can increase the power of Meng Hao to the limit of Vast Expanse and can even make him who is already 1-A (Transcendor) to step in Ancestor Realm (the next Realm) a more profound potency of 1-A.
The Terracotta Soldier is a Quasy-Dao Realm Existence meaning someone that has almost one Essence. It also exists on another plane of existence and it has the power to sever the natural Laws, Dao and everything that exist.
- 229
- 27
I read the CRT about that, so what? There's nothing there which implies what are you saying. And about Vast Expanse is what I said, is only a isolated part of the True Universe.
So without anything other info, True Universe = our universe in size >>>>> Vast Expanse
So yes, like I said Meng Hao is not even Universal lvl, the lvl you give him is pure wank based on info described as "countless stars/infinite, etc". You can't be serious lol.
So without anything other info, True Universe = our universe in size >>>>> Vast Expanse
So yes, like I said Meng Hao is not even Universal lvl, the lvl you give him is pure wank based on info described as "countless stars/infinite, etc". You can't be serious lol.
- 4,882
- 2,518
- 229
- 27
Worlds =/= universes
Worlds = places with life = planets or star (in these novels they use more the term star)
And like I said, all that does not show anything, there is no relevant info and only hyperboles and other figures of speech. Hell, I read so many of these novels, I know what I'm talking about.
Worlds = places with life = planets or star (in these novels they use more the term star)
And like I said, all that does not show anything, there is no relevant info and only hyperboles and other figures of speech. Hell, I read so many of these novels, I know what I'm talking about.
- 15,332
- 7,563
"Endless worlds" isn't saying the planets are infinite, it's just a figure of speech to demonstrate is a really large amount of planets inside the Milky Way Galaxy.
The third quote, about the Black Holes, does sound legit though, since it mentions an infinite number of rifts (aka portals) connecting an infinite number of worlds, which would likely mean "universes" on that context.
The third quote, about the Black Holes, does sound legit though, since it mentions an infinite number of rifts (aka portals) connecting an infinite number of worlds, which would likely mean "universes" on that context.
- 15,332
- 7,563
And the stuff about "dimensional spaces" is worded really weirdly, but from what I can see, the context is on "dimensions" as in alternate/pocket dimensions, going by the third quote here.
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 16,919
- 7,368
I said earlier that dimensions in general seem to refer more to universes. There is the one quote where dimensions are referred to in relation to height, length, and width, but I do not think this can necessarily be generalized to all mentions of the term when it's not always used like that.
Also, the 1-A files need a justification on the file, or at least link the explanation of the Dao and how it supercedes all concepts and duality and such.
Also, the 1-A files need a justification on the file, or at least link the explanation of the Dao and how it supercedes all concepts and duality and such.
- 3,074
- 676
So, I didn't wanna talk anything, since I haven't read the other novels and might have been missing some important context, but now I want to give my 2 cents on this. Not gonna talk about tier or anything, but I disagree with a few things.
First, I noticed a thing about this quote that I'd like to talk about.
Each paragraph comes from a different chapter. The first one is from chapter 685 , when Meng was flying around the Vast Expanse with the Underworld Ship. The worlds mentioned are the Realms, like the Mountain and Sea Realm, the Butterlfly of the Devil Realm, etc.
The second is from chapter 1538, and mentions rifts, but they aren't the same kind as the ones mentioned in the others. They're basically just wormholes that lead to outside of the starry sky of the Vast Expanse.
The third one is from chapter 1405, and is mentioning a vortext that had rifts in it that lead to different worlds. These worlds, I assume, are Realms like the Mountain and Seal Realm or Planet Vast Expanse, that's what they seem to mean whenever they mention "worlds", like in chapter 685 that I just talked about. Although I don't think they actually explain what was up with that vortex.
Anyway, I noticed that Zara seemed to use this as proof that the Realms/Landmasses contain all these worlds within them, and I don't think that's right. That specific vortex could only be entered by a Transcendor, making it ridiculously more powerful than any of the other Realms, that are pretty much helpless if ever attacked by a Transcendor. What happens there is not the norm.
The last one, I looked for and couldn't find out where it's from. I don't remember that quote from anywhere, and Google only links to the blogs Zara made here when I search. idk . . .
Anyway, regarding the Vast Expanse, it's simply not infinite, and that is made very clear in the novel. They say many times that it seems endless, but that's only because it's so big that no one can reach the end in their lifetimes. Meng Hao straight up mentions how only the true universe is infinite . Hell, Meng makes a point that the Vast Expanse is just a huge star cluster in a larger universe.
This time stop feat happened in a pocket dimension called Vale of the Godgrave, that was really just the head of one of the gods that attacked the Mountain and Seal Realm. It's very, very big, but not universe sized by any means. It's compared to the body of a god Meng saw earlier, and that body's size was only compared to a planet or a continent. I know it's called a universe at some point, but that seems to be used the same way as dimension, in this case. They straight up says how big it is anyway.
For the individual realms, I've heard that they have universes inside them in other novels, but, at least in ISSTH itself, that doesn't seem to appear. Pocket dimensions are extremely common, even weak Spirit Realm sects have them, but I don't remember any full blown universe being shown there.
I don't think the Realms themselves are universes either. Planet Vast Expanse is a Realm, and it's just a ridiculously huge planet , that people can see entirely when flying through space. The Mountain and Sea Realm is pretty much the same, Nine Mountains and Seas, surrounded by a sun and a moon. You can see the whole thing when flying from far away, and they even talk about how they're all horizontally laid out, and can even be tilted to bottleneck attacks from above . They're clearly finite, and Cultivators can physically fly from one mountain to the other, it's just that there's generally a barrier in the way, although the barriers seemed to just vanish when the war started and everyone was flying from mountain to mountain with no problem at all.
The Eigth Hex's dimensional thingy seems to imply higher dimensional, and endless realities stuff, but the only dimensional thing he does with it after understanding the Essence is to turn people 2-D and shove them into paintings, at least from what I remember.
And, just in general, ther terms Boundless/Infinite/Limitless/etc get thrown around a lot. A lot of hyperbole in this novels.
Anyway, just my thoughts on it.
First, I noticed a thing about this quote that I'd like to talk about.
Each paragraph comes from a different chapter. The first one is from chapter 685 , when Meng was flying around the Vast Expanse with the Underworld Ship. The worlds mentioned are the Realms, like the Mountain and Sea Realm, the Butterlfly of the Devil Realm, etc.
The second is from chapter 1538, and mentions rifts, but they aren't the same kind as the ones mentioned in the others. They're basically just wormholes that lead to outside of the starry sky of the Vast Expanse.
The third one is from chapter 1405, and is mentioning a vortext that had rifts in it that lead to different worlds. These worlds, I assume, are Realms like the Mountain and Seal Realm or Planet Vast Expanse, that's what they seem to mean whenever they mention "worlds", like in chapter 685 that I just talked about. Although I don't think they actually explain what was up with that vortex.
Anyway, I noticed that Zara seemed to use this as proof that the Realms/Landmasses contain all these worlds within them, and I don't think that's right. That specific vortex could only be entered by a Transcendor, making it ridiculously more powerful than any of the other Realms, that are pretty much helpless if ever attacked by a Transcendor. What happens there is not the norm.
The last one, I looked for and couldn't find out where it's from. I don't remember that quote from anywhere, and Google only links to the blogs Zara made here when I search. idk . . .
Anyway, regarding the Vast Expanse, it's simply not infinite, and that is made very clear in the novel. They say many times that it seems endless, but that's only because it's so big that no one can reach the end in their lifetimes. Meng Hao straight up mentions how only the true universe is infinite . Hell, Meng makes a point that the Vast Expanse is just a huge star cluster in a larger universe.
This time stop feat happened in a pocket dimension called Vale of the Godgrave, that was really just the head of one of the gods that attacked the Mountain and Seal Realm. It's very, very big, but not universe sized by any means. It's compared to the body of a god Meng saw earlier, and that body's size was only compared to a planet or a continent. I know it's called a universe at some point, but that seems to be used the same way as dimension, in this case. They straight up says how big it is anyway.
For the individual realms, I've heard that they have universes inside them in other novels, but, at least in ISSTH itself, that doesn't seem to appear. Pocket dimensions are extremely common, even weak Spirit Realm sects have them, but I don't remember any full blown universe being shown there.
I don't think the Realms themselves are universes either. Planet Vast Expanse is a Realm, and it's just a ridiculously huge planet , that people can see entirely when flying through space. The Mountain and Sea Realm is pretty much the same, Nine Mountains and Seas, surrounded by a sun and a moon. You can see the whole thing when flying from far away, and they even talk about how they're all horizontally laid out, and can even be tilted to bottleneck attacks from above . They're clearly finite, and Cultivators can physically fly from one mountain to the other, it's just that there's generally a barrier in the way, although the barriers seemed to just vanish when the war started and everyone was flying from mountain to mountain with no problem at all.
The Eigth Hex's dimensional thingy seems to imply higher dimensional, and endless realities stuff, but the only dimensional thing he does with it after understanding the Essence is to turn people 2-D and shove them into paintings, at least from what I remember.
And, just in general, ther terms Boundless/Infinite/Limitless/etc get thrown around a lot. A lot of hyperbole in this novels.
Anyway, just my thoughts on it.
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #114
Same as for Unknown Realms. Ancestor is the second stage/sub-realm of Transcendence. Once someone become a Transcendor the first stage is Daosource then Ancestor.Elizhaa said:
- 15,973
- 8,195
I agree with @Antvasima on better justifications.
I will be honest. The justifications should sounds like they are worthy of a Tier 1-A. Currently, to me, Tier 1-A justifications sound so vague that they might qualified for lower tiers.
I proposed this solution; it is using the 1-A: Outerverse level wiki explanations as a basis for better justifications. An example of this application is Khorne's Tier 1-A justifications; I believe Meng Hao's Tier 1-A justifications should on this level. If the justifications are not improved soon, I predict future revisions towards the rating in the long run.
I will be honest. The justifications should sounds like they are worthy of a Tier 1-A. Currently, to me, Tier 1-A justifications sound so vague that they might qualified for lower tiers.
I proposed this solution; it is using the 1-A: Outerverse level wiki explanations as a basis for better justifications. An example of this application is Khorne's Tier 1-A justifications; I believe Meng Hao's Tier 1-A justifications should on this level. If the justifications are not improved soon, I predict future revisions towards the rating in the long run.
- 1,154
- 659
First hello, and excuse me if I sound inexperienced using VS Battle terms and stuff since I'm a newbie at this and kind of confused with some VS Battle stuff XD (like 8-D dimaneison 11-D >.<). Hm, I kind of read this/skimmed quickly, and I saw how, after much "difficulty" equalizing Chinese Daoist settings with the stuff here, how we got to 1-A and how Wokistan said he thinks Daosource is 1-A.Antvasima said:
I just don't understand, if that was your question to Zaratthustra , how justifications are needed for Ancestor (why is it 1-A) when it's a superior realm to Daosource which is considered 1-A? I mean, if X > 1, then X+1 > 1..or maybe I missed something? Maybe you just meant to add the justifications written here in the profile?
- 4,882
- 2,518
- Thread starter
- #119
Ok, I don't understand what justification lacks as it stated/showed what Daosource truly is, but I will post a longer description of it and if Antvasima unlocks the profile so I can add it (the justification will be from this CRT and should not have any problems).
Old One:
Outerverse level | Outerverse level (All those that have Transcended completely have become their own Daosource, Dao becoming their plaything. The source of his power, Dao, is responsible for the existence of all reality, the duality of yin-yang, dimensional spaces)
New One:
Outerverse level (Dao is a True Platonic Concept. It is the source and origin of everything in existence. It is the highest form of world concepts, and as Transcendors have become their own Daosources, they exist beyond the Dao itself, which contains all of space and time, infinity, the supreme limit, the duality of Ying and Yang. The concepts and Dao itself become their playthings and existence is just canvas in their hands) | Outerverse level (After billions of years, Meng Hao reaches an infinitely more powerful realm know causing even Transcendors to not be able to comprehend his existence. His tenth demon sealer hex, "My Fate", can seal the heavens, like a demon stated to exist in an infinitely higher realm than even his current one, and only 20% of it was enough to defeat the Allheaven)
Old One:
Outerverse level | Outerverse level (All those that have Transcended completely have become their own Daosource, Dao becoming their plaything. The source of his power, Dao, is responsible for the existence of all reality, the duality of yin-yang, dimensional spaces)
New One:
Outerverse level (Dao is a True Platonic Concept. It is the source and origin of everything in existence. It is the highest form of world concepts, and as Transcendors have become their own Daosources, they exist beyond the Dao itself, which contains all of space and time, infinity, the supreme limit, the duality of Ying and Yang. The concepts and Dao itself become their playthings and existence is just canvas in their hands) | Outerverse level (After billions of years, Meng Hao reaches an infinitely more powerful realm know causing even Transcendors to not be able to comprehend his existence. His tenth demon sealer hex, "My Fate", can seal the heavens, like a demon stated to exist in an infinitely higher realm than even his current one, and only 20% of it was enough to defeat the Allheaven)
