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Hypersonic+ Jujutsu Kaisen downgrade

Thebadtimetrio32

Thebadtimetrio32

92
39
So basically, I noticed that 15F Sukuna and Gojo tiers was changed from Massively Hypersonic+ (I believe) to Hypersonic+ via Sukuna "perception blitzing" Haruta 420 meters, which got to Mach 15. I don't really like this calc at all, and think that it has a very major logical issue

The thing with perception blitzes are is that you're traveling so fast that when the character looks in your direction, they can't see you move. It's almost like you're teleporting without the other person noticing that you're teleporting, if that makes sense. To compare it to the 2F calc, where Megumi is actually looking at the spot where Sukuna had traveled, and somehow didn't see Sukuna travel right behind him. That's fine, Sukuna actually moves so fast that Megumi, who was looking directly at his direction, couldn't see him period.

The 15F calc is different. It uses a perception blitzing formula when Sukuna isn't really blitzing any perception, and if he was you can't prove it was through that entire distance. Basically, Haruta was getting beat up by Mahoraga, and got really lucky because Sukuna decided to come and save him. However, Sukuna didn't travel the same way Haruta was looking, so Sukuna didn't have a perception to blitz at all. While you can argue that maybe Mahoraga didn't see Sukuna save Haruta due to how fast he moved, it can't be proven that Sukuna could perception blitz outside the distance that Mahoraga could see at that point, if that makes sense.

TL;DR, I don't think it can be proven that Sukuna perception blitzed Haruta at all, and if he did, which could be likely, it can't be proven that it was through that entire distance, and at most the ground that Mahoraga can see, which I promise isn't 420 meters
 
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There is a thread going on currently to fix this and also, I do think the perception blitzing calc was already rejected
 
Huh, didn't know it was already rejected. Whoever proposed it to begin with probably also didn't either. If there's no other calc to go off of, Sukuna and Gojo should just be like "At least Supersonic, likely far higher" upscaling from Yuta, Hakari, Kashimo, etc
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
Huh, didn't know it was already rejected. Whoever proposed it to begin with probably also didn't either. If there's no other calc to go off of, Sukuna and Gojo should just be like "At least Supersonic, likely far higher" upscaling from Yuta, Hakari, Kashimo, etc
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It should only be Supersonic, idk why one would make it an at least rating
 
Thebadtimetrio32 said:
So basically, I noticed that 15F Sukuna and Gojo tiers was changed from Massively Hypersonic+ (I believe) to Hypersonic+ via Sukuna "perception blitzing" Haruta 420 meters, which got to Mach 15. I don't really like this calc at all, and think that it has a very major logical issue

The thing with perception blitzes are is that you're traveling so fast that when the character looks in your direction, they can't see you move. It's almost like you're teleporting without the other person noticing that you're teleporting, if that makes sense. To compare it to the 2F calc, where Megumi is actually looking at the spot where Sukuna had traveled, and somehow didn't see Sukuna travel right behind him. That's fine, Sukuna actually moves so fast that Megumi, who was looking directly at his direction, couldn't see him period.

The 15F calc is different. It uses a perception blitzing formula when Sukuna isn't really blitzing any perception, and if he was you can't prove it was through that entire distance. Basically, Haruta was getting beat up by Mahoraga, and got really lucky because Sukuna decided to come and save him. However, Sukuna didn't travel the same way Haruta was looking, so Sukuna didn't have a perception to blitz at all. While you can argue that maybe Mahoraga didn't see Sukuna save Haruta due to how fast he moved, it can't be proven that Sukuna could perception blitz outside the distance that Mahoraga could see at that point, if that makes sense.

TL;DR, I don't think it can be proven that Sukuna perception blitzed Haruta at all, and if he did, which could be likely, it can't be proven that it was through that entire distance, and at most the ground that Mahoraga can see, which I promise isn't 420 meters
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Just to note the Mach 2.86 feat is fine as I described, however it’s debatable if Megumi is “superhuman” at this point. Before they were training with Maki and the others, both himself and Nobara were dumbfounded by Yuji’s superhuman feats (running at superhuman speeds and busting through a wall respectively), and the only way they could even be reaching superhuman is with an CE buff, which afaik Megumi doesn’t have activex if that makes sense.
 
Agreed, Sukuna does not move the entire distance. 420.726203209 m beyond anyone's perception There was no one to observe him throughout that distance. There is no reason to use a perceptual time frame throughout that distance.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
I'd add the times Gojo "blitzed" Sukuna with blue, and not just in terms of travel speed. It's his overall movement speed (as in the movement speed of his entire body), and not just for travel purposes.
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I understand what your mean but it's not attack speed either it's more akin to short distance teleport and Sukuna just get hugging and not attacked.

Travel speed maybe not exactly what it is but I still can't think another way to describe its should

' higher with short distance teleport via Blue ' more accurate?
 
The reason I did perception blitz was because Sukuna sped across the city to save Haruta against Mahoraga who was already mid swing. Sukuna traveled the distance before anyone count see, sense him coming and feel his touch grabbing them.

I think someone did a version where they used the distance of the sword and Haruta's face which got basically the same results if that's better for you.

In terms of 20 fingers he has his own feats.
 
PowerToScale said:
The reason I did perception blitz was because Sukuna sped across the city to save Haruta against Mahoraga who was already mid swing. Sukuna traveled the distance before anyone count see, sense him coming and feel his touch grabbing them.

I think someone did a version where they used the distance of the sword and Haruta's face which got basically the same results if that's better for you.

In terms of 20 fingers he has his own feats.
Click to expand...
Even in that case, it implies that they could sense Sukuna from far away. Say he was 400 meters away, it would have to be proven that they can sense from 400 meters away, or 200 meters away, hell even 50 meters away. If their sensing (not including anyone could see, ofc they couldn't see him no one was looking at him) is limited to a certain point, then the perception blitz would be pertained to that distance.

Might be somewhat crazy but Idk if Sukuna traveled instantly either. He noticed Mahoraga far before Mahoraga swung at Haruta. Maybe I'm reaching but I think it's an argument that can be thrown out there. This pertains to your calc and the possible other calc you mentioned.
 
PowerToScale said:
The reason I did perception blitz was because Sukuna sped across the city to save Haruta against Mahoraga who was already mid swing. Sukuna traveled the distance before anyone count see, sense him coming and feel his touch grabbing them.
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There is 0 proof Mahoraga started a punch before Sukuna sped through the city. This is just headcanon
 
They is no reason to assume that Sukuna only move after Haruta get attacked or in Mahoraka sword range

He already sense Mahoraka present (which leaking when megumi making hand sign) and moving
 
Exactly. Sukuna's feat isn't actually what they calced it out to be, and part of the proof is in the inconsistency. If Sukuna is MHS+ based off of calcing a blitz to a Mahoraga punch, and also a blitz above Mahoraga, then how does Mahoraga keep up with him?

Throughout their fight we get 0 implications that Sukuna had a speed advantage against Mahoraga, or that Mahoraga needed to adapt to Sukuna's "superb speed." No such implications exist about "speedster 15 Finger Sukuna."
 
For those wondering. The sequence of events that take place are Mahoraga walks up to Haruta after slapping Megumi, Sukuna senses Mahoraga and likely Megumi near death too, Mahoraga is mid swing and Sukuna saves Haruta (Sorry but imgur is as and not working). These panels take place right after another in that order. We can see that Sukuna managed to traverse all the way to save Haruta before anyone can notice it happening (see, sense, or feel), and that Mahoraga was already mid swing. This is the events play out for me.

Now, how the wiki wasn't to fill in the gaps between the panels/pages is up to use guys. Each person can have their own interpretations and fill in the gaps how they want. That's all there really is for me to say. In regards to this, 16 finger Sukuna would be downgraded to whatever you guys decide, but 20 finger would still upscale from his own feats while weakened.
 
PowerToScale said:
For those wondering. The sequence of events that take place are Mahoraga walks up to Haruta after slapping Megumi, Sukuna senses Mahoraga and likely Megumi near death too, Mahoraga is mid swing and Sukuna saves Haruta (Sorry but imgur is as and not working). These panels take place right after another in that order. We can see that Sukuna managed to traverse all the way to save Haruta before anyone can notice it happening (see, sense, or feel), and that Mahoraga was already mid swing. This is the events play out for me.

Now, how the wiki wasn't to fill in the gaps between the panels/pages is up to use guys. Each person can have their own interpretations and fill in the gaps how they want. That's all there really is for me to say. In regards to this, 16 finger Sukuna would be downgraded to whatever you guys decide, but 20 finger would still upscale from his own feats while weakened.
Click to expand...
Idk about the 20 finger feat, even if he was fighting the biggest baddest villain, it doesn’t change the properties of the technique and how it progressively gets slower while traveling very quickly, which is how Yuji was able to dodge it.
 
Thebadtimetrio32 said:
Idk about the 20 finger feat, even if he was fighting the biggest baddest villain, it doesn’t change the properties of the technique and how it progressively gets slower while traveling very quickly, which is how Yuji was able to dodge it.
Click to expand...
This was something that been discussed over before. The reference of PB being slower is in relation to the movements after (i.e. redirecting it, swinging it) as the initially attack (The beam) is its fastest and the users movements are slower than it. some that was mentioned in the previous CRT and translators have been asked regarding the statement and said it isn't referring to lose of speed in the way you think. Also if it did it defies any reason the technique is good
 
PowerToScale said:
This was something that been discussed over before. The reference of PB being slower is in relation to the movements after (i.e. redirecting it, swinging it) as the initially attack (The beam) is its fastest and the users movements are slower than it. some that was mentioned in the previous CRT and translators have been asked regarding the statement and said it isn't referring to lose of speed in the way you think. Also if it did it defies any reason the technique is good
Click to expand...
Unless the translators takes on it where really that drastic, I don't agree. "even if" implies that whatever comes next isn't the deciding factor of what came before. "This technique only moves fast at the beginning! As long as I dodge it" is the before, then he says "even if it changes directions, I can still get it close". This implies that when he dodges it, Choso hasn't "redirected" or "swung" it, just in Yuji's initial dodge, which he implies that he can only do if it gets slower. The movements can make it slower, which I agree with the logic as to why, it isn't the only thing that hinders it's speed. Piercing blood just seems to have a passive decrease in speed,
 
We see directly in the likes of Piercing Blood against Uraume that the Mach Cone that showcases supersonic speeds is present even after crossing most of the distance between Uraume in Choso. Progressively slower or not, the drop off in speed is unlikely to dip quick enough for the attack to not still be supersonic by the time it'd be hitting the likes of Sukuna in the accepted calc.
 
PowerToScale said:
For those wondering. The sequence of events that take place are Mahoraga walks up to Haruta after slapping Megumi, Sukuna senses Mahoraga and likely Megumi near death too, Mahoraga is mid swing and Sukuna saves Haruta (Sorry but imgur is as and not working). These panels take place right after another in that order. We can see that Sukuna managed to traverse all the way to save Haruta before anyone can notice it happening (see, sense, or feel), and that Mahoraga was already mid swing. This is the events play out for me.
Click to expand...
No, Sukuna saved Haruta when Mahoraga was mid swing (this much is true), but we don't know that he STARTED HIS MOVEMENT and LEFT THE PLACE WHERE HE WAS BEFORE when Mahoraga STARTED his swing. This is never shown in the manga or the anime, and it's an extremely highballed interpretation inconsistent with the lore.

Duedate8898 said:
We see directly in the likes of Piercing Blood against Uraume that the Mach Cone that showcases supersonic speeds is present even after crossing most of the distance between Uraume in Choso. Progressively slower or not, the drop off in speed is unlikely to dip quick enough for the attack to not still be supersonic by the time it'd be hitting the likes of Sukuna in the accepted calc.
Click to expand...
the issue with the current calc for Sukuna "blitzing PB" is it severely underestimates the distance PB moves after Sukuna disappears from the screen. It moved way more than we calced, but it's extremely difficult to quantify based on the panels and perspectives we're given.

Thebadtimetrio32 said:
Unless the translators takes on it where really that drastic, I don't agree. "even if" implies that whatever comes next isn't the deciding factor of what came before. "This technique only moves fast at the beginning! As long as I dodge it" is the before, then he says "even if it changes directions, I can still get it close". This implies that when he dodges it, Choso hasn't "redirected" or "swung" it, just in Yuji's initial dodge, which he implies that he can only do if it gets slower. The movements can make it slower, which I agree with the logic as to why, it isn't the only thing that hinders it's speed. Piercing blood just seems to have a passive decrease in speed,
Click to expand...
This is where I'd disagree with you, because if the true intent was to portray Piercing blood as something that rapidly decelerates, then the anime would've portrayed this to be the case, and it would've been a clear point for Gege to tell them "hey, animate this this way because it's how it moves," but the anime portrays it with a more-or-less constant speed with no signs of a speed decrease.

It's clear to me, at least, that what Kenjaku is talking about is how if you dodge the initial speed of Piercing Blood, AKA the supersonic speed, then you're good and the redirected / homing speed is way way way slower meaning that if you're capable of dodging supersonic, that's a cakewalk to dodge and you're good.
 
Thebadtimetrio32 said:
Unless the translators takes on it where really that drastic, I don't agree. "even if" implies that whatever comes next isn't the deciding factor of what came before. "This technique only moves fast at the beginning! As long as I dodge it" is the before, then he says "even if it changes directions, I can still get it close". This implies that when he dodges it, Choso hasn't "redirected" or "swung" it, just in Yuji's initial dodge, which he implies that he can only do if it gets slower. The movements can make it slower, which I agree with the logic as to why, it isn't the only thing that hinders it's speed. Piercing blood just seems to have a passive decrease in speed,
Click to expand...
This is wrong.

Quite literally it does not drop in speed. However the swinging is heavily implied to drop in speed. The one fired at straight line isn't.
 
Piercing Blood's speed is unrelated to these downgrades.

I'm not sure why the Hypersonic+ calc was ever accepted when there's the glaring issues with it that the op has pointed out.
 
What happened with gojo saying that he could easily hit the timing of a BF ( which is 0.000001 sec )?
 
LIGHTYW said:
What happened with gojo saying that he could easily hit the timing of a BF ( which is 0.000001 sec )?
Click to expand...
this shouldn't even require a level of perception speed (my take). You can time something perfectly with the atomic level of precision of the six eyes.

Here's how it would work:

- Gojo knows the speed of his "CE output"

- Gojo can precisely start it so it moves the exact distance necessary so that the gap in distance makes the equivalent time less than .000001 seconds.

My point is: there are ways for this to work without requiring that he has mhs+ reaction speeds.
 
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