Hyper Muteki Ex-Aid Upgrade?

[Akreious]

So I just got my hands on a digital copy of the Mighty Novel X Lightnovel and one thing jumped out at me

Link

"ÒÇîõ┐║Òüîõ¢òÒü«Õ»¥þ¡ûÒééÒü¬ÒüÅÒâÅÒéñÒâæÒâ╝ÒâáÒâåÒé¡ÒéƵëïµö¥ÒüÖÒü¿ÒüºÒééµÇØÒüúÒüƒÒü«Òüï´╝ƒÒÇì ÒÇÇÒüØÒüåÒÇéÒâáÒâåÒé¡Òü«ÕèøÒüîÒüéÒéîÒü░Òé┤ÒââÒâëÒâ×Òé¡ÒéÀÒâ×Òâáþø©µëïÒüºÒééÞ▓áÒüæÒéïÒüôÒü¿Òü»Òü¬ÒüäÒÇé ÒÇÇÒüæÒü®ÚÇåÒü½þø©µëïÒéƵëôÒüíÞ▓áÒüïÒüÖÒü«ÒééÕ«╣µÿôÒüÿÒéâÒü¬ÒüäÒÇéõ©ïµëïÒüÖÒéèÒéâÒüéÒüäÒüñÒéƵö╗þòÑÒüÖÒéïÒü«Òü½ õ║öÕ╣┤ÒÇüÕìüÕ╣┤ÒÇüÒüäÒéäõ©ÇþöƒÒüïÒüïÒéïÒüïÒééÒüùÒéîÒü¬ÒüäÒÇéÕåùÞ½çµè£ÒüìÒüºÒÇé ÒÇÇÒüáÒü¿ÒüùÒüƒÒéëÕêåÒüîµé¬ÒüäÒü«Òü»õ┐║Òü«µû╣ÒüáÒÇéõ║║ÚûôÒü«õ┐║Òü½Òü»Õ»┐Õæ¢ÒüúÒüªÒüäÒüåÒé┐ÒéñÒâáÒâ¬ÒâƒÒââÒâêÒüîÒüé ÒéïÒüïÒéëÒü¬ÒÇé"

Putting it through the basic Google Translate and with my extremely rough Japanese basically says Level Billion Genm will never defeat Hyper Muteki Ex-Aid.

This means Hyper Muteki Ex-Aid should get resistance to Reality Warping, Biological Manipulation, and possibly this should upgrade Hyper Muteki to Low 2-C Durability since even with Cosmic Chronicle, Genm wouldn't be able to defeat Hyper Muteki.

This is supported by the fact that in the Build/Ex-Aid Crossover, the Kaiser guys was planning on using Hyper Muteki to survive the destruction of the 2 universes and be the sole ruler of the new Universe that results from the Fusion.

This should possibly upgrade Emu's Stamina in Hyper Muteki as well since Genm pretty much says that even though Hyper Muteki can't be defeated, it will be difficult for Emu to defeat him as well and it very well might take five years, ten years, or even a lifetime.

The sentence afterwards shows how Hyper Muteki is pretty much only limited by the Human Lifespan in how much activity Emu can do. Possibly infinite stamina?

tl;dr proposed changes for Hyper Muteki:

• Resistance to Reality Warping (Level Billion Genm) and Biological manipulation (Dangerous Zombie)
• Straight up/Likely Low 2-C Durability
• Upgrade Stamina reasoning (Is implied to be able to operate for 5 years, 10 years, or even a lifetime straight to defeat Genm)

 

[Akreious]

Bump

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

i'm leaning towards agreeing with this. though i'm of the opinion that muteki's tier 2 durability should be attributed to its invincibility power rather than its general durability outright. the description given about this lolnoping defensive power was mostly attributed to the particles that muteki (the gashat) produces, so this tier 2 durability can be technically given to other character that has a hold of it at some point like kuroto did, though only for 10 seconds. hyper muteki (the form) just makes it so that emu can use the power practically indefinitely through a recursive loop. shame toei is still not invincible to budget restrain so they couldn't have hyper muteki to shone golden bright all the damn time

so my own proposal in regard to this crt is to make the change looks kinda like this

durability: tier [whatever his current durability is], tier 2 with hyper muteki's invincibility

much like how god billion's tier 5 ap and tier 2 ap are separated from one another

on another tangent, can you link the digital copy for me? preferably on my wall so we wouldn't clutter this thread

 

[Akreious]

Why would Hyper Muteki's durability not scale with its invulnerability? Hyper Muteki Ex-Aid is in a perpetual state of Invincibility anyways so it's not like there's at all any difference. The whole point of Ex-Aid's Hyper Muteki is that you don't have to activate Hyper Muteki once you use it. The glow that you see is simply a Statistics Amplification that makes Ex-Aid stronger; not the source of his Invulnerability as the Invulnerability part of his Hyper Muteki is passive and built into the armour proper.

Also sure.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Seem pretty good to me.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

it's the effect of his armor. its main effect is to put the invincibility which was previously only active for 10 secods into a recursive loop. this invincibility gimmick is mainlly signified by the armor glowing bright golden, hence why other riders glowed just like muteki when they used the gashat. the reason 10 seconds were a hard cap was because no gamer rider was able to hold out for more than 10 seconds as otherwise it'll risk an overflow for user, potentially harming them; hyper muteki was made to circumvent that demerit

if you'd bother to read the very site that you linked, you'd noticed that the description for EX Muteki Armor's function is to perpetually maintain and reproduce the state of "invincibility" when muteki's special power is activated, not necessarily what makes him invincible in the first place. what's built-in is not the invincibility itself, it's a function to maintain it that way


also, what actually produces muteki's invincibility is not the armor; it's the gashat, which produces the golden particles that both boost emu's stats and makes him invincible. this particles are what's consequently injected into hyper muteki's entire body, making him invincible and utterly strong in the process

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Looking at the scans posted and the site linked, it is indeed noted that Muteki invincibility is a special ability that's activated by using the gashat. The armor only maintain and reproduce the effect of the gashat ability of invincibility.

I am with GSU on this

 

[LinkSlayerLvX]

It sound good

 

[Akreious]

No, that's the thing, once you henshin into Hyper Muteki, the effect stays. There is literally NO turning on Invincibility anymore since the effect is now always present. There is absolutely 0 instances where Hyper Muteki doesn't maintain the Hyper Muteki effect.

If you can show an instance where Hyper Muteki Ex-Aid takes damage and doesn't have Invulnerability, by all means.

Your proposal would imply that Hyper Muteki Ex-Aid has a Non-Invulnerable state and an Invulnerable state that's activated. This simply doesn't happen and transformation into Hyper Muteki maintains the invulnerability loop; there's no instance where this effect is off.

The current durability value we have for Ex-Aid makes no difference between invulnerability effect and actual durability so why make a difference now? Especially since his present durability is in Hyper Muteki where invulnerability is maintained

Edit: We should probably get some staff on here too. Are there any Kamen Rider Supporters amongst the staff?

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

literally anytime gamedeus and/or gamedeus cronos lands a hit on him, when emu didn't shone gold, which was the most obvious visual cue of his invincibility being active. you can argue all you want about how "hurdur it doesn't damage him hurdur" but by that point you'd be directly contradicting canon information.

muteki is supposedly an absolute invincibility frame which functionally negates any attack, negative effects, and knockback coming to emu's way. you can sic an entire solar system ingrained with every known debuff in mankind's history of gaming and the attack wouldn't damage him, the debuff wouldn't affect him, and he wouldn't even flinch from the knockback/ragdoll aspect of the attack; that's how absolute hyper muteki is. literally what didn't happened when muteki was getting punked by gamedeus/gamedeus cronos comboing bugster abilities on him, he was evidently getting knocked back again and again in eps 42, 43, and 44; something that wouldn't happen if his invincincibility is inherent to his body armor like you claim rather than in the particles that the gashat produces and inject into the armor which consenquently makes him shine bright golden like how the scans, the shows, and the novel actually tell you

literally anytime that emu was actually invincible and wasn't being affected by any attacks are only when he shone brilliant gold, which only happened a handful of time in the actual show likely due to plot-induced stupidity and budget limitation because those effect shave toei's budget. hell, everytime other gamer riders encountered him when pis doesn't bog emu down, they or the narration always noted how emu's muteki armor always shone brilliant golden, a visual cue that muteki was truly invincible

and you've got what's essentially the most damning evidence that you somehow avoid to address

Õ┐൫║µèÇþÖ║ÕïòµÖé

this quite literally says "when the special moves/attacks/powers are activated", which obviously refers to his invincibility frame as both the sentence before and after that points to his invincibility as its main issue. sleepy's here and he can attest to what the scan says, both from the novel or from the site

i couldn't care less about how emu's durability is practically low 2-c all the damn time when pis doesn't makes him job like how it did to practically most riders in all season, as the novel and other side materials sufficiently showcased to us. this site is first and foremost an indexing wiki, we're going for accuracy first here. if power 1 belongs to object x, then we're going to attribute power 1 to object x even though object z uses it all the time that object z practically has power 1 in his arsenal even if object z doesn't inherently possesses power 1 in the first place, z just uses 1 through the existence of x being present and accessible to him

as the scan explicitly tells you. the invincibility belongs to the sparkglitter particles produced by the gashat, it's the particles' property and not those of the armor's. sparkglitter makes things possess tier 2 durability, otherwise any other rider armor in ex-aid doesn't have it simply because there's no evidence for it. without adding sparkglitter into the equation, muteki's pure durability is at best only comparable to his attack potency because hyper muteki has other gimmick as well that makes his stats always maxed out and kind of broke the parameter system in ex-aid which makes him scale above kuroto's god billion moon slinging feat. or mars slinging feat for that matter but that can be calced at a later date

tl;dr

sparkglitter makes you shine bright golden. when you're shining, you have tier 2 durability. when you don't shine, you don't. not that difficult to grasp

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Õ┐൫║µèÇþÖ║ÕïòµÖé does indeed to translate "when the special power is activated"

Hell this is even further proved with the gashat scan stating using it (the gashat) activates the invincibility.

The armor has built-on functions for reproducing and maintaning the effect of the gashat, not it is invincible itself.

 

[Antvasima]

@SleepyTBubble

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[SleepyTBubble]

I am in agreement with GSU prposals

dura should be like this:

"Tier (current dura), tier 2 with Hyper Muteki invincibility"

This is because the source of invincibility is the gashat which must be activated. It's not something the armor has inherently which is why the durability section should be divided as such

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah, pretty much i agree with GSU and ALFYN here

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

mind, whatever goes through would still mean that emu's pratical durability would be tier 2 in general as without pis bogging him down he'll abuse muteki's power in a fight effectively as seen in the novel. putting that here in case someone reads it as a reminder for future thread involving emu after this crt is resolved

 

[Antvasima]

@SleepyTBubble

Okay. That is probably fine then.

 

[Akreious]

Except you yourself have already admitted that the invincibility is under a recursive loop effect; Hyper Muteki Ex-Aid is no more durable when his aura is on vs when it's off as the invincibility loop is never off. It's literally the damn armour's job to keep the effect up.

Plus the "Current dura" you're proposing still is covered by Ex-Aid's invulnerability, regardless of the wording.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

reread what i said on the matter. what i said basically boils down to the armor acting as the gashat and its particles' remote control by making it so that the user don't explode after the 10 seconds mark pass by making it loop back for some reason. literally we never see emu invincibility at play whenever hes not shining, not even once. everytime hes actually untouchable by anything is when hes shining, be it in the novel, in the tv series proper (much especially the form debut in episode 36), the movie (true ending's finale and heisei gen final)

that just mean it needs a revision on its own, which would be unrelated to this matter at hand. whoever slap that on his profile just mixed it up and no one consequently fix it. using that as your backing up argument doesn't really have a solid grounding as emu's current durability's justification can be changed (or should be changed, really). pointing multiples wrong doesn't make a right.

muteki automatically makes emu's stat to be always maxed out and broke the general stat parameter relative to ex-aid setting outside of its invincibility function due to sparkglitter particles. that alone would make him scale to practically anything in the series proper, including kuroto's god billion. only thing that come close to being muteki's equal in pure stat is gamedeus, with gamedeus cronos and gamedeus muteki being something that kind of surpassing it

never mind that what made emu survived kuroto slinging mars at him wasn't an actual muteki invincibility from the gashat but a makeshift effect derived from a combination of "lucky" and "random" energy item which granted him an invincibility-like effect which still leaves him open to knockback, which wouldn't happen had it been an actual invincibility from muteki gashat. the gashat itself wasn't even available to emu in the final fight and that was an important plot point as kuroto and emu were both trying to assume their final forms while trying to prevent the other from doing so, which kuroto succeed. which in a way also support my argument about how muteki's absolute invincibility is completely invalible, because it shows that muteki's invincibility isn't always on as otherwise the punking by gamedeus and gamedeus cronos fundamentally couldn't even happen

so basically nothing really address my point about how the tier 2 rating belongs to the particles and not the armor, which has its own inherent durability value due to its own actual stats, and thus it should be separated as such. someone ******* the justification because he wrongly took the summary on the kamen rider wikia doesn't make a solid argumentation in and on itself

really, you could argue that the current status of kamen rider pages' quality is still largely left to be desired, even after all these supposedly "revisions", though that could be a topic for another date. staking your argument based on one is unwise on your part

 

[Antvasima]

I have to unsubscribe to this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message later if you need my help after you reach a conclusion.

 

[Akreious]

I am in agreement with GSU prposals
dura should be like this:

"Tier (current dura), tier 2 with Hyper Muteki invincibility"

This is because the source of invincibility is the gashat which must be activated. It's not something the armor has inherently which is why the durability section should be divided as such

Which is completely, as I'm repeating myself, unsupported. The whole point of Emu using Hyper Muteki in the fashion that he does in comparison to everyone else is solely for the fact that you do not need to activate it anymore. The armour inherently has it because, just under the "evidence" where the invincibility only occurs in a Finisher, it's noted that the armour naturally negates enemy attacks and does not take damage. Sure sounds like Invincibility to me.

"reread what i said on the matter. what i said basically boils down to the armor acting as the gashat and its particles' remote control by making it so that the user don't explode after the 10 seconds mark pass by making it loop back for some reason. literally we never see emu invincibility at play whenever hes not shining, not even once. everytime hes actually untouchable by anything is when hes shining, be it in the novel, in the tv series proper (much especially the form debut in episode 36), the movie (true ending's finale and heisei gen final)"
Yeah no, this is blatantly false. Emu's Hyper Muteki is straight up ALWAYS Invincible. Just because he dodges more and basically has Ultra-Instinct when Shining (Which is attributed to the fact that the sparkle is a stat boost) doesn't mean he normally isn't Invincible.

Gets smashed by Gemdeus. Doesn't take any damage and yet no shining. Only Sparkles/Shining once he gets back up in Part 3 of this video

Beyond the Kimewaza, Hyper Muteki Ex-Aid still has no sparkle nor glow and yet still takes absolutely 0 damage

And even then, right under Õ┐൫║µèÇþÖ║ÕïòµÖé is µòÁÒü«µö╗µÆâÒü»Õà¿ÒüªþäíÕè╣ÕîûÒüòÒéîÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒÇüÒâÇÒâíÒâ╝Òé©ÒéÆÕÅùÒüæÒéïÒüôÒü¿Òü»Òü¬ÒüäÒÇé

Where All Enemy attacks are negated and he does not take damage; it's another sentence so it's not even connected to the previous "Activated" state.

In addition, the actual sparkles you see is noted to be a stat boost and not responsible for the Invincibility proper.

õ╗«ÚØóÒâ®ÒéñÒâÇÒâ╝Òé¿Òé░Òé╝ÒéñÒâëÒü«Úá¡Úâ¿Òü½ÕÅûÒéèõ╗ÿÒüæÒéëÒéîÒüƒµö╗µÆâÞúàþ¢«ÒÇé õ╝©þ©«Þç¬Õ£¿Òü«ÕêâÒüîÚ½¬Òü«µ»øÒü«ÒéêÒüåÒü½Þñçµò░ÞúàþØÇÒüòÒéîÒüªÒüèÒéèÒÇüÚá¡Úâ¿ÒéƵ┐ÇÒüùÒüŵî»ÒéèÕø×ÒüÖÒüôÒü¿ÒüºÒÇüÕæ¿Õø▓ÒéÆÕêçÒéèÞúéÒüÅÚ╗äÚçæÒü«þ½£ÕÀ╗ÒüîþÖ║þöƒÒüÖÒéïÒÇé Òü¥ÒüƒÒÇüÕà¿Þ║½ÒéÆÞªåÒüåÒéêÒüåÒü½þÖ║ÕàëÕ╝ÀÕîûþ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÒÇîÒé╣ÒâæÒâ╝Òé¡Òâ│Òé░Òâ¬ÒââÒé┐Òâ╝ÒÇìÒéÆÕÖ┤Õ░äÒüùÒÇüõ©ÇիܵÖéÚûôµêªÚùÿÞâ¢ÕèøÒéÆÕ╝òÒüìõ©èÒüÆÒéïÒüôÒü¿ÒüîÕÅ»Þâ¢ÒÇé ÒüôÒü«µ®ƒÞâ¢Òü½ÒéêÒéèÒÇüÕñëÞ║½þø┤Õ¥îÒéäÕà¿Þ║½þÖ║ÕàëµÖéÒü»ÒâæÒâ│ÒâüÕèøÒâ╗Òé¡ÒââÒé»ÕèøÒéÆÕɽÒéüÒüƒÕà¿Þâ¢ÕèøÒüî2ÕÇìÒü½Òü¥Òüºõ©èµÿçÒüÖÒéïÒÇé

"Increase fighting ability" and "Doubles your ability" does not sound like "The only way to activate invincibility" to me, especially when this Sparkling Ritter is noted to be the sparkling we see for Hyper Muteki.

"that just mean it needs a revision on its own, which would be unrelated to this matter at hand. whoever slap that on his profile just mixed it up and no one consequently fix it. "
Or what you're proposing is unsupported in the actual show? Hyper Muteki form is permanently Invincible and maintains the same effect as when say, Genm would use it for 10 seconds except it's permanent. Sparkle Ritter, the aura and sparkle you see, is literally just Statistics Amplification which is supported by the fact that Sparkle Ritter is not only present for Finisher Attacks (Unlike what your evidence would try to imply).

"using that as your backing up argument doesn't really have a solid grounding as emu's current durability's justification can be changed (or should be changed, really). pointing multiples wrong doesn't make a right."
Again, your stance is unsupported in the show. Heck, Emu literally says his Invincibility duration is Infinite; it's always on. There are absolutely zero instances where Hyper Muteki isn't Invincible.

"muteki automatically makes emu's stat to be always maxed out and broke the general stat parameter relative to ex-aid setting outside of its invincibility function due to sparkglitter particles."
Beyond the fact that Sparkle Ritter is noted to be just a stat amp, at the very least Gemdeus Cronus was Hyper Muteki's equal/superior in strength and yet, still all the same, Ex-Aid remains completely unharmed regardless of Sparkles or no sparkles in every encounter they have.

"that alone would make him scale to practically anything in the series proper, including kuroto's god billion. only thing that come close to being muteki's equal in pure stat is gamedeus, with gamedeus cronos and gamedeus muteki being something that kind of surpassing it"
So you acknowledge that, and yet still when they hit Emu without Sparkle Ritter, you don't question why Emu can just get up from any attack they deal?

"never mind that what made emu survived kuroto slinging mars at him wasn't an actual muteki invincibility from the gashat but a makeshift effect derived from a combination of "lucky" and "random" energy item which granted him an invincibility-like effect which still leaves him open to knockback, which wouldn't happen had it been an actual invincibility from muteki gashat."
Alright, so, first thing. Hyper Muteki's Invincibility has literally always left him vulnerable to knockback. Just because you don't take damage doesn't mean you don't go flying when a sufficiently strong thing hits you. My citation for this is pretty much everytime he gets hit by Cronus.

Beyond that, there are absolutely 0 reason for it not to be Muteki Invincibility. Lucky + Random can literally give him any beneficial effect at the time and beyond that, this is absolutely superfluous anyways since Level Billion Genm is noted to never be able to defeat Hyper Muteki anyways so regardless of that; Hyper Muteki still scales above/equal.

"the gashat itself wasn't even available to emu in the final fight and that was an important plot point as kuroto and emu were both trying to assume their final forms while trying to prevent the other from doing so, which kuroto succeed."
I mean, which still isn't the point since Hyper Muteki > Can't lose so.

"which in a way also support my argument about how muteki's absolute invincibility is completely invalible, because it shows that muteki's invincibility isn't always on as otherwise the punking by gamedeus and gamedeus cronos fundamentally couldn't even happen"
It is only your headcanon that Hyper Muteki's Invincibility for some reason negates knockback. Beyond that, Ex-Aid never actually takes damage by Gemdeus and Gemdeus Cronus so I have no idea why the heck you think it's supporting your argument.

Furthermore, sure looks like Ex-Aid got knocked back even with Sparkle Ritter o.

"so basically nothing really address my point about how the tier 2 rating belongs to the particles and not the armor, which has its own inherent durability value due to its own actual stats, and thus it should be separated as such. someone ******* the justification because he wrongly took the summary on the kamen rider wikia doesn't make a solid argumentation in and on itself"
Except the sparkles are noted to be nothing but a stat amp and all other sources, including Emu himself, says that his Invincibility time is Infinite alongside the armour literally saying "All enemy attacks are negated and do not take damage".

"really, you could argue that the current status of kamen rider pages' quality is still largely left to be desired, even after all these supposedly "revisions", though that could be a topic for another date. staking your argument based on one is unwise on your part"
Before you try to patronize me, how about maybe take the actual quotes from characters from the show first eh? Because my argument is based on character quotes and what's actually shown on the official quotes, not whatever the hell you're saying.

 

[Akreious]

Bumpo

Also further evidence that Hyper Muteki is always on

Japanese:



English:


The Hyper Muteki Gashat is always generating the Sparkle Ritter which grants Invincibility and the Surplus is stored in the hair so as to avoid Self-Destruction from excess particles and whenever we see the sparkles visibly around him, he's unleashing the particles to amp himself up further than what he normally would be.





This is also supported by the fact that Level Billion Genm would never be able to defeat Emu as Hyper Muteki. If Hyper Muteki wasn't always invincible, wouldn't you think Genm would be able to make a game that took advantage of that? A game to specifically target the moments of an invincible target when they're actually vulnerable to deal fatal damage or something?

All of this invariably means that Invincibility is maintained and sustained; upon transformation into Hyper Muteki, there's no "Off" to his Invincibility. This is supported by the hair storing excess particles to avoid self destruction which can't be possible if the particles weren't constantly being circulated (Or else why the hell is the gashat generating a self-destroying particle and not instead generating them on-demand to completely bypass the Storage problem) as well as Emu himself saying his Invincibility lasts forever and has no duration unlike the other Rider's 10 seconds when they use it.

So yeah, sorry if I sounded a little heated but I got all my cents out there. I still stand by the fact that Hyper Muteki's invincibility is always on.

Gun Slave Unit, Veloxt1r0kore, SleepyTBubble, do you still think that Invincibility is still needed to be activated?

 

[LinkSlayerLvX]

@Akreious

I agreed this one

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Actual translation of the invincibility line (Instead of using Google TL) and the activation part is:

Kamen Rider EX Muteki Armor õ╗«ÚØóÒâ®ÒéñÒâÇÒâ╝Òé¿Òé░Òé╝ÒéñÒâëÒü«Õà¿Þ║½ÕÉäÚâ¿ÒéÆõ┐ØÞ¡ÀÒüÖÒéïÚ╗äÚçæÒü«ÒéóÒâ╝Òâ×Òâ╝ÒÇé Õà¿Þ║½µ®ƒÞâ¢ÒéÆþ«íþÉåÒüÖÒéïÞúàþ¢«ÒüîþÁäÒü┐Þ¥╝Òü¥ÒéîÒüªÒüèÒéèÒÇüÕ┐൫║µèÇþÖ║ÕïòµÖéÒü«Õ«îÕà¿þäíµòÁþèµàïÒéÆÕåìþÅ¥Òâ╗þ¡µîüÒüÖÒéïÕ¢╣Õë▓ÒéƵîüÒüñÒÇé µòÁÒü«µö╗µÆâÒü»Õà¿ÒüªþäíÕè╣ÕîûÒüòÒéîÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒÇüÒâÇÒâíÒâ╝Òé©ÒéÆÕÅùÒüæÒéïÒüôÒü¿Òü»Òü¬Òüä

• Golden armor that protects the entire body of Kamen Rider Ex-Aid. The Device that controls the whole body functions is included in, allowing it to reproduce and maintain the time of the perfect invincibility status when the ability is activated (þÖ║Õïò). No damage is taken and all enemy attacks are reduced to nothing

This clearly says that the invincibility state is a form of an activation state that and not something that is inherent within the armor. And the last sentence is connected to the previous one, i don't know why you would think so otherwise

In Episode 36, Kuroto uses the Gashat ability and it gives him the same invincibility within a time limit by sparkling. This is an obvious indication that Hyper Muteki Armor has nothing to do with the invincibility and serves more as means of prolonging it.

In Episode 37, Emu uses Hyper Muteki Invincibility to tank the Bugster Kaiden attack and we see him sparkling.

Although there's some episodes (And i can't speak for 40 and beyond as a have yet to watch them for now. On EP 39) where Muteki is invincible without the sparkle effect, i'd take GSU on it being a problem of PIS/Budget.

Besides, from here, there's another evidence that it is an activation ability and not an innate one (Pretty damn open ones at that)

Hyper Muteki Gashat Õ«îÕà¿þäíµòÁÒü«ÕèøÒéÆþºÿÒéüÒüƒÚ╗äÚçæÒü«Òâ®ÒéñÒâÇÒâ╝Òé¼ÒéÀÒâúÒââÒâêÒÇé Òâ×Òé¡ÒéÀÒâ×ÒâáÒâ×ÒéñÒâåÒéúXÒé¼ÒéÀÒâúÒââÒâêÒü¿Õà▒Òü½Òé▓Òâ╝Òâ×ÒâëÒâ®ÒéñÒâÉÒâ╝Òü½ÞúàÕí½ÒüÖÒéïÒüôÒü¿ÒüºÒÇüõ╗«ÚØóÒâ®ÒéñÒâÇÒâ╝Òé¿Òé░Òé╝ÒéñÒâë ÒâáÒâåÒé¡Òé▓Òâ╝Òâ×Òâ╝Òü©Òü«ÕñëÞ║½ÒüîÕÅ»Þâ¢Òü¿Òü¬ÒéïÒÇé Òü¥ÒüƒÒÇü2µ£¼þø«Òü«Òâ®ÒéñÒâÇÒâ╝Òé¼ÒéÀÒâúÒââÒâêÒü¿ÒüùÒüªÒé▓Òâ╝Òâ×ÒâëÒâ®ÒéñÒâÉÒâ╝Òü«ÕñûÕü┤Òü«Òé╣Òâ¡ÒââÒâêÒü½µî┐ÕàÑÒüÖÒéïÒü¿ÒÇüþäíµòÁÒâóÒâ╝ÒâëÒü«þÖ║ÕïòÒüîÕÅ»Þâ¢Òü¿Òü¬ÒéïÒÇé

As for the translation...

• The Golden Rider Gashat with the power of perfect invincibility. It becomes possible to transform into Kamen Rider Ex-Aid Muteki by loading it (Gashat) alongside Maximum Mighty X into a Gamer Driver. Moreover, by inserting it into the second rider Gashat slot of the Gamer Driver external, it becomes possible to activate the invincibility mode

This is another clear cut of the invincibility mode being an activation and nothing else.

Still not enough? Good, because there's another japanese text

ÒâÅÒéñÒâæÒâ╝ÒâáÒâåÒé¡Òé╣ÒéñÒââÒâü (Hyper Muteki Switch) ÕñëÞ║½µÖéÒéäÕ┐൫║µèÇþÖ║ÕïòµÖéÒü½õ¢┐þö¿ÒüÖÒéïÒÇüÒâÅÒéñÒâæÒâ╝ÒâáÒâåÒé¡Òé¼ÒéÀÒâúÒââÒâêÒü«Òé│Òâ│ÒâêÒâ¡Òâ╝Òâ½Òé╣ÒéñÒââÒâüÒÇé

Translation:

• The control switch that is used for activation of special moves or transformation of Hyper Muteki Gashat

Another one

MTKÒéÁÒâ╝Òé¡ÒââÒâêÒâ£Òâ╝Òâë (MTK Circuit Board) ÒâÅÒéñÒâæÒâ╝ÒâáÒâåÒé¡Òé¼ÒéÀÒâúÒââÒâêÒü«Õƒ║µØ┐ÒÇé õ╗«ÚØóÒâ®ÒéñÒâÇÒâ╝Òü½ÕñëÞ║½ÒüÖÒéïÒüƒÒéüÒü«ÒâùÒâ¡Òé░Òâ®ÒâáÒéäÒÇüÕ░éþö¿ÞúàÕéÖÒü¬Òü®Òü«ÒâçÒâ╝Òé┐ÒüîÞ¿ÿÚî▓ÒüòÒéîÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé Òü¥ÒüƒÒÇü2µ£¼þø«Òü«Òâ®ÒéñÒâÇÒâ╝Òé¼ÒéÀÒâúÒââÒâêÒü¿ÒüùÒüªÒüôÒü«Úâ¿ÕêåÒéÆÒé▓Òâ╝Òâ×ÒâëÒâ®ÒéñÒâÉÒâ╝Òü«ÕñûÕü┤Òü«Òé╣Òâ¡ÒââÒâêÒü½Õê║ÒüùÞ¥╝Òü┐ÒÇüÒéóÒé»ÒâüÒâÑÒé¿Òâ╝ÒéÀÒâºÒâ│Òâ¼ÒâÉÒâ╝ÒéÆÚûïÒüÅÒüôÒü¿ÒüºþäíµòÁÒâóÒâ╝ÒâëÒüîþÖ║ÕïòÒüÖÒéïÒÇé

Translation:

• The substrate of Hyper Muteki Gashat. The program of Kamen Rider transformation and the data for personal equipement are recorded within it. Addtionnally, as the second rider Gashat slot of the Gamer Driver external, the invincible mode can be activated (þÖ║ÕïòÒüÖÒéï) by opening the activation lever

There's also literally this

ÒâÅÒéñÒâòÒâ®ÒââÒéÀÒâÑÒé©ÒéºÒâìÒâ¼Òâ╝Òé┐ (High Flash Generator) þÖ║ÕàëÕ╝ÀÕîûþ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÒÇîÒé╣ÒâæÒâ╝Òé¡Òâ│Òé░Òâ¬ÒââÒé┐Òâ╝ÒÇìÒéÆþöƒµêÉÒüÖÒéïÞúàþ¢«ÒÇé þöƒµêÉÒüòÒéîÒüƒÚ╗äÚçæÒü«þ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÒü»Òé▓Òâ╝Òâ×ÒâëÒâ®ÒéñÒâÉÒâ╝ÒéÆÚÇÜÒüùÒüªõ¢┐þö¿ÞÇàÒü«Õà¿Þ║½Òü½ÚÇüÒéèÞ¥╝Òü¥ÒéîÒÇüÒüØÒü«µêªÚùÿÞâ¢ÕèøÒéƵÑÁÚÖÉÒü¥ÒüºÕ╝ÀÕîûÒüÖÒéïÒÇé þäíµòÁÒâóÒâ╝ÒâëÒü½Òü»10þºÆÒü¿ÒüäÒüåµÖéÚûôÕêÂÚÖÉÒüîÞ¿¡ÒüæÒéëÒéîÒüªÒüäÒéïÒüîÒÇüÒüôÒéîÒü»Õà¿Þ║½ÒéƵÁüÒéîÒéïþ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÒüîÚÖÉþòîÚçÅÒü½ÚüöÒüÖÒéïÒü¥ÒüºÒü«µÖéÚûôÒüºÒüéÒéèÒÇüÒé¬Òâ╝ÒâÉÒâ╝ÒâòÒâ¡Òâ╝Òü½ÒéêÒéïÞç¬ÕúèÒéÆÚÿ▓ÒüÉÒüƒÒéüÒü«ÒééÒü«ÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé Òü¥ÒüƒÒÇüÞí¿ÚØóÒü«þÖ║ÕàëÒâæÒâìÒâ½Òü»Òé│Òâ×Òâ│ÒâëÒâíÒâïÒâÑÒâ╝Òéäµö╗µÆâµÖéÒü«Òé¿ÒâòÒéºÒé»ÒâêÒü¬Òü®ÒéÆþ®║õ©¡µèòÕ¢▒ÒüÖÒéïµ®ƒÞâ¢ÒéÆÕéÖÒüêÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé

Translation:

• Device that generates luminescent enhancing particles "Sparkglitter". The Gamer Driver sends this created golden particles to the entire user body through it, reinforcing their combat ability to the limit. The invincibility mode has 10 seconds of time restriction, which is the time limit it takes the particles while flowing through the entire body, and is something made to prevent self-destruction by means of overflow.

This is clearly the most cut out of the three that the sparkglitter is the reason behind the invincibility mode. The other also mentions how it is done through activation and not is something inherent

I still disagree with Akreious and i am with GSU on this matter

The source material is clear on this. The invincibility mode is activated through the gashat which invokes the sparkglitter that is the source of the invincibility. The armor only removes the restriction factor of using it only for 10 seconds and is why Emu says his invincibility was infinite

EDIT: Gonna be out for some while, so don't expect a reply for me any time soon (Days at least)

 

[Akreious]

There's a tl;dr at the bottom of this post if you don't want to read this wall of text. I mean, you should. This is a debate, but yeah. If you want to basically skim it.

"This clearly says that the invincibility state is a form of an activation state that and not something that is inherent within the armor. And the last sentence is connected to the previous one, i don't know why you would think so otherwise"

And the line immediately afterwards, not a connecting sentence to the old one (Meaning it's speaking about the armour itself and not the effect) says that No damage is taken and all enemy attacks are reduced to nothing. Certainly sounds like Invincibility to me. Periods exist for a reason.

If it were to be referring to the Invincibility then it should and would say so (The Japanese language is absolutely bonkers on context). Since the sentence ends and the "No damage taken" is via another sentence, the subject of the sentence at least grammatically speaking is talking about the Armour itself and not the Invincibility.

"In Episode 36, Kuroto uses the Gashat ability and it gives him the same invincibility within a time limit by sparkling. This is an obvious indication that Hyper Muteki Armor has nothing to do with the invincibility and serves more as means of prolonging it."

Yes, the Sparkles which grant Invincibility are the Sparkle Ritter. However as I have posted scans of, the Sparkle Ritter is continuously circulated around Ex-Aid's body and the excess generated is stored in the dreadlocks of Hyper Muteki form and can be used to Stat-Amp Emu when he needs it. This does not address my point.

"In Episode 37, Emu uses Hyper Muteki Invincibility to tank the Bugster Kaiden attack and we see him sparkling."

Would you care to try to explain Emu taking no damage from Gemdeus Cronus or Gemdeus Machina then? I certainly see no sparkles in those instances. Just because he used stat amps during that one instance does not mean Invincibility comes purely from that; just that he's amping himself up.

If Goku uses Kaioken and uses Instant Transmission, does that mean Goku can only use Instant Transmission while using Kaioken? No, the Kaioken is just a stat amp. It does not change whether or not Goku can use Instant Transmission.

"Although there's some episodes (And i can't speak for 40 and beyond as a have yet to watch them for now. On EP 39) where Muteki is invincible without the sparkle effect, i'd take GSU on it being a problem of PIS/Budget."

Or we take what they say in the very show and Emu is simply Invincible all the time and the sparkles on him is just the stat-amp; supported by the Armour Pieces page.

"Besides, from here, there's another evidence that it is an activation ability and not an innate one (Pretty damn open ones at that)

As for the translation...

This is another clear cut of the invincibility mode being an activation and nothing else."

No, this is not evidence at all. Emu explicitly uses Hyper Muteki differently from everybody else. This only applies for people who use Hyper Muteki in the secondary slot of the Gamer Driver, not Emu.

Again, I addressed literally all of this in my previous posts.

"Still not enough? Good, because there's another japanese text

Translation:

• The control switch that is used for activation of special moves or transformation of Hyper Muteki Gashat

Another one"

This literally says nothing other than this monitors the activation of special attacks or the Hyper Muteki transformation. Nothing specifically on Invincibility.

Okays so I'm going to stop here because it's clear you don't realize there's a difference from other people using Hyper Muteki and Emu using Hyper Muteki. The next example you give is using the secondary slot on the gamer driver again; this does not apply to Emu. Genm specifically says this; the "true" way to use Hyper Muteki is by docking it with Maximum Mighty X, not by inserting it into the secondary slot.

And the last thing you linked again only applies to users other than Emu. It's the Generator for the Invincibility and the Time limit only exists to prevent overflow. This does not happen with Hyper Muteki because the dreadlocks stores this excess energy; there is zero need for a time limit.

Original Japanese:

"ÒéóÒâ½ÒâåÒéúÒâíÒââÒé»Òé¼Òâ╝Òâë

õ╗«ÚØóÒâ®ÒéñÒâÇÒâ╝Òé¿Òé░Òé╝ÒéñÒâëÒü«ÞàòÚâ¿ÒéäÞäÜÚâ¿Òü½ÞúàþØÇÒüòÒéîÒüƒµÿƒÕ×ïÒü«Òé¼Òâ╝ÒâëÒâæÒâ╝ÒâäÒÇé
µö╗µÆâµÖéÒü«ÞíصÆâÒéäÕÅìÕïòÒéÆÕÉ©ÕÅÄÒüùÒÇüÕñëÞ║½ÞÇàÒü©Òü«Þ▓áÞìÀÒéƵ£ÇÕ░ÅÚÖÉÒü½µèæÒüêÒéïÕ¢╣Õë▓ÒéƵîüÒüñÒÇé
Òü¥ÒüƒÒÇüþÖ║ÕàëÕ╝ÀÕîûþ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÒÇîÒé╣ÒâæÒâ╝Òé¡Òâ│Òé░Òâ¬ÒââÒé┐Òâ╝ÒÇìÒü«µÁüÒéîÒéÆþ«íþÉåÒüùÒÇüõ¢ÖÕë░ÕêåÒéÆÒâÅÒéñÒâæÒâ╝Òâ®ÒéñÒâëÒâÿÒéóÒâ╝Òü½Þ▓»ÞöÁÒüÖÒéïÒüôÒü¿ÒüºÒÇüÒé¬Òâ╝ÒâÉÒâ╝ÒâòÒâ¡Òâ╝Òü½ÒéêÒéïÞç¬ÕúèÒéÆÚÿ▓ÒüäÒüºÒüäÒéï"

Translation:

"Ultimate Guard

Star-shaped guard parts attached to the arms and legs of Kamen Rider Ex-Aid. It absorbs shocks and reactions during attacks and has the role of minimizing the burden on the transformant. In addition, by managing the flow of the luminous enhancement particle "sparking litter" and storing the surplus in hyperride hair, self-destruction caused by overflow is prevented."

Hyper Muteki already prevents overflow and the excess is passively stored in the hair. There is 0 need for a time limit.

Even the original description makes a difference between Emu's use of Hyper Muteki and other people:

"Description

A golden rider gashat with invincible power.

By loading it into a gamer driver with Maximum Mighty X Gashat, it becomes possible to transform into a Kamen Rider Ex-Aid Muteki Gamer.

Also, if you insert it into the slot outside the gamer driver as the second rider gashat, you can activate the invincible mode."

What you are trying to assert here is that Hyper Muteki still retains the 10 second time limit (Which only exists to prevent overflow) even though the form itself already stores and has countermeasures against such a thing.

Plus the term "flow" here implies it's constantly flowing. Overflow happens after 10 seconds; if the hair continously stores Sparkle Ritter Particles via managing the flow then that means the flow remains constant and still flowing regardless of whether or not Sparkle Ritter is present outside the body.

"The source material is clear on this. The invincibility mode is activated through the gashat which invokes the sparkglitter that is the source of the invincibility. The armor only removes the restriction factor of using it only for 10 seconds and is why Emu says his invincibility was infinite"

Yes, the source material is clear on this. Emu's Invincibility mode is indefinite and once transformed into Hyper Muteki, need not be activated again once remaining in that form. The limit of 10 seconds only applies to other users.

Sorry if I sound angry, again, but most of these arguments only apply to other users and specifically aren't supported in-verse. It doesn't simply remove the factor of only using it for 10 seconds or else the moment it runs out, Emu would be stuck in Time-Stop since according to you, he just has indefinite uses of it- AKA the Microsecond it runs out he should've been frozen in time.

In addition to this, Resistance to Time Stop is specifically attributed to the Sparkle Ritter. Just having it inserted does not grant resistance and only when it is present does it grant resistance (As Genm has displayed). Since Emu has been shown to always be resistant, Glitter or no Glitter, it's just even more evidence that Emu retains Invincibility/Sparkle Ritter passively.

tl;dr: The 10-second Time Limit only exists to prevent overflow and the subsequent death of the user. However, since Hyper Muteki has armour that manages this flow and specifically stores the excess overflowed Sparkle Ritter into the Dreadlocks, there is no logical reason why the Time Limit should remain.

All the references to 10-second time limit and Overflow prevention on the Hyper Muteki Gashat's page refers to the users who are not Emu since it's repeatedly referenced how it only applies to users who use Hyper Muteki in the secondary slot; not docking like Emu does.

 

[ZakoBrandoOverBlade]

Mighty Novel X is a thing so cobining that (reality overwrite) with VRX (creation) and Muteki (inmortal and invinsable) means you get someone like Dio over heaven. (yes, that's a jojo refreance.)

yep. this guy.

 

[ZakoBrandoOverBlade]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3735251 here's a link

Even if there's no God or Buuda, there is Kamen Rider

 

[Akreious]

Rider Bump

Shortnote but I'd like to mention the fact that you guys are trying to say there are instances where Hyper Muteki form is not Invincible even though the armour exists for that sole purpose.

Just because the Armour itself is not the cause for the Invincibility doesn't make it any less invincible; the effect is passive. There are absolutely nill instances where Hyper Muteki Form isn't invulnerable.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Bumping this because i want to see where this will go.

 

[Akreious]

I'm sort of just waiting for a response right now since I think I played my part well enough and any more would just be beating a dead horse.

 

[Akreious]

Bump, this is actually fairly important

 

[Antvasima]

Sleepy's conclusions are probably fine.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Sleepy's conclusions are probably fine.

Idk...i somewhat feel like Akr's points seem to be more correct than Gun and Sleepy. Probally will give my opinion later when i have time.

And since GSU is probally away from the wiki several months, wont it's be unfair if we continue the discussion without him ?

 

[Akreious]

Sleepy's conclusions are probably fine.

I personally believe I completely shot down every single one of those conclusions though? I'm just waiting for a comeback right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that we should wait then.

 

[Kaijinoodles.EXE]

Unrelated to Muteki's upgrade; I've heard Genm was able to create a shit ton of universes by using his level billion form in this novel. Is this true OP?

 

[SleepyTBubble]

I don't remember any feat on this level

The only thing close to cosmic level of feats in the novel is Genm going to Mars and crashing it down on Emu lol

Òé▓Òâ│ÒâáÒü»Õ£░ÚØóÒéÆÞ©ÅÒü┐ÒüñÒüæÒÇüþ®║Ú½ÿÒüÅÞÀ│Þ║ìÒüùÒüƒ´╝ü

ÒüéÒüúÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÚûôÒü½Õñ£þ®║Òü«Õ¢╝µû╣Òü©Òü¿µÂêÒüêÒüƒÒüïÒü¿µÇØÒüåÒü¿ÒÇüµÿƒþ®║Òü«õ©¡ÒüïÒéëµÿƒÒüîõ©ÇÒüñÒüìÒéëÒéèÒü¿Þ╝ØÒüäÒüƒÒÇéÒüØÒü«Þ╝ØÒüìÒüîÒü┐ÒéïÒü┐ÒéïÕñºÒüìÒüÅÒü¬ÒüúÒüªÒüäÒüìÒÇüµÿƒþ®║Õà¿õ¢ôÒéÆÞªåÒüäÕ░¢ÒüÅÒüÖÒÇé

þü½µÿƒÒüáÒÇé

þü½µÿƒÒéÆÒüØÒü«µëïÒü½µææÒéôÒüáÒé▓Òâ│ÒâáÒüîÒüôÒüúÒüíÒü½ÕÉæÒüïÒüúÒüªþ¬üÒüúÞ¥╝ÒéôÒüºÒüÅÒéïÒÇé

Also i can't be bothered to continue this discussion. Up to you guys (Although i am still firmly against it if you still want my opinion)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I trust Sleepy's sense of judgement.

 

[Akreious]

The thing is, Sleepy's entire basis of argument is based on faulty info that wasn't their fault (Due to contextual queues)

It shouldn't matter whether or not you trust their judgement because it's factually just incorrect; they're trying to use the info for the side-slot use of Hyper Muteki in an attempt to extrapolate it for Ex-Aid's Docking Style use which is completely different, as noted several times.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Just gonna say, the quotes had Emu Hojo linked too sooo

But let's forget that. I wanna just talk about something that bothered me a lot

And it's this one

• If it were to be referring to the Invincibility then it should and would say so (The Japanese language is absolutely bonkers on context). Since the sentence ends and the "No damage taken" is via another sentence, the subject of the sentence at least grammatically speaking is talking about the Armour itself and not the Invincibility.

You're making a big deal about Japanese being all about context. I mean, yeah sure it is (in some cases anyway...especially for translation), but not to a ridiculous degree to the way you're making it out to be

Sentences can still be connected to one another even with periods in-between them, and Japanese is no exception. This is something we all know languages do (Well i know for sure Japanese, French, Arabic and English does lol. Dunno about others)

So you're also incorrect about using the sentence connection (you claim it isn't because of period which is the worst thing to argue for). Moreso, even going by your own words, the quote would have explicitly told us the armor is the one with invincibility power but it didn't. It just put a period and continued on to explain the power.

Btw, you had to yet to make a remark on this Õ┐൫║µèÇþÖ║ÕïòµÖé which translates "when activating the special power". Heavy emphasis on activating. Especially when even novel specifically focuses on Hyper-Muteki power being that of its invincibility

Anyway, unfollowing this thread

 

[Akreious]

"When activating the special power" can literally mean "Upon transformation" and it'd still be 100% correct for Hyper Muteki is indeed, a special power. Because y'know... Ex-Aid has to Activate the big star button to initiate Hyper Muteki.

Plus you do realize you're implying that, because of the "Õ┐൫║µèÇ" (Hissatsuwaza) part of it, that Emu is only invincible once doing a special attack or finisher? Even though literally every example of him being invincible is notable for him not doing a special attack and is rather just tanking it?

Also, again, directly contradicted by Emu saying he's always Invincible. Period.

It does not at all counter the fact that the dreadlocks serve to prevent overflow (Negating the need for the 10 second time limit) and the fact that it constantly stores up the Sparkle Ritter for Statistics Amps use later on; meaning that the Invincibility Power is never turned off (or else there'd be no build up in Sparkle Ritter to be used).

Not that this was even a large point in my post; It very clearly maintains the invincibility effect so it no longer has the 10 second time limit. That's why I said there's absolutely no reason to separate the armor's individual durability apart from the invincibility effect because the armor maintains it forever.

Honestly I'm not even sure why there's a discussion about this when Emu straight up tells us that he's Invincible always, no catch (Which is the advantage over side-slot users).