HwG-Bracket Final (Reki vs Dr. Kondraki)

[DontTalkDT]

Reki vs Dr. Kondraki

Speed Equal
SBA otherwise

This two fighters turned out to be clear outliers within this tournament. Both easily blew through most of their matches.
Dr. Kondraki dominated with his bullet blocking butterfly and excellent stealth, while Reki sniped her opponents with superhuman skill.

Which of the two will end up as the winner of the Humans with Guns Tournament?

Reki: 0
Dr. Kondraki: 0
Incon: 0

vs.

 

[Oleggator]

So it's snipe or invisibility.

Can Reki see invisible stuff?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Has the distance of Reki’s rifle been longer than 2051 meters?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Has the distance of Reki’s rifle been longer than 2051 meters?

IIRC she has no showing of sniping over greater distance, although 2051 is of course strictly speaking just her 100% hit range.

Can Reki see invisible stuff?

No, but then again Kondraki's stuff isn't invisibility. It's just a stealth screen. Is it good enough to fool someone with vastly superhuman eyesight?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Is it good enough to fool someone with vastly superhuman eyesight?

It has been able to be efficient 99.997% of the time, but how much would an eyesight that is 6 times that of a human be to this?

 

[Lou_change]

It was 99.97% percent accurate when hiding five people, tricked site 17 as a whole that basically everything escaped, hid Dr. Kondraki from SCP-682, and tricked clef with a "reconstruction" of site 17 that was a big enough problem that he went out of his way to get a different anomaly to temporarily stop it(that was the goal) despite the only person currently capable of fighting him was incapacitated.

 

[DontTalkDT]

It has been able to be efficient 99.997% of the time, but how much would an eyesight that is 6 times that of a human be to this?

It was 99.97% percent accurate when hiding five people, tricked site 17 as a whole that basically everything escaped, hid Dr. Kondraki from SCP-682, and tricked clef with a "reconstruction" of site 17 that was a big enough problem that he went out of his way to get a different anomaly to temporarily stop it(that was the goal) despite the only person currently capable of fighting him was incapacitated.

99.97% accurate as in that percentage of the screen matches the background colours? I think Reki can probably pick that up. Reki could spot that students were in a bus, which was so far away that other expert gunman couldn't even see the bus itself. And mind you, that was spotting, she didn't know the location of the bus in advance, she just picked it up by scanning the entire scenery. Now imagine what she can do with a scope.
In general, those feats don't sound much better than fooling basic human eyesight.

Further considerations to make is that Reki can spot things in reflections. So Dr. Kondraki has to immediately decide to cover himself 360°. And there is a problem with that. If Dr. Kondraki covers himself 360° then no light will reach him. He himself wouldn't be able to see anything. If he made a gap to see out, Reki can spot him in return.

Lastly, let's not forget that Reki has Haimaki. He can visually camouflage himself visually, but what can he do against superhuman hearing and smelling ability?

 

[Blahblah9755]

For some perspective, some studies supposedly indicate Eagles have vision inferior to 6.0, and they can pick out small animals, like a rabbit in grass, from over 3 km away.

 

[Lou_change]

The fact that was five people something they explicitly mention so like it is more effective than that for one person and they can also create "clones" this was also meant for field use meaning they are most definitely using small groups than the the whole swarm which is the average amount of butterflies he has at any given time.

Also given that rule you added to SBA they see their opponent before the fight meaning he should know she has a sniper rifle and you didn't comment on the other feats.

 

[Lou_change]

Oh and here is the full quote: Addendum 408-B: Recent field testing has shown that SCP-408 can act as an effective form of active invisibility when ordered to. SCP-408 was able to conceal five Level 2 personnel and keep them undetected throughout the facility. Tests show the concealment to operate at 99.997% efficiency, and can be maintained for up to five hours without need for rest or recuperation. The option of lending SCP-408 to Task Forces for covert operations is pending approval.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The fact that was five people something they explicitly mention so like it is more effective than that for one person and they can also create "clones" this was also meant for field use meaning they are most definitely using small groups than the the whole swarm which is the average amount of butterflies he has at any given time.

Also given that rule you added to SBA they see their opponent before the fight meaning he should know she has a sniper rifle and you didn't comment on the other feats.

Yeah, but that too few butterflies make the image worse, doesn't mean that more butterflies make the image better. It's like an issue of resolution. If you don't have enough screens you can't cover a large volume of stuff with them, but having 500 screens won't improve the resolution you can get in a small area.

I don't understand what you mean with the they see each other before the fight thing. Yes, they know how their opponent looks, but Kondraki hardly knows that she is a superhuman sniper that can shoot around corners just because he sees her having a rifle... heck, did you know that the real versions of Reki's rifles have a lethal range smaller than Reki's 100% hit range? Seeing those might even throw him off.

I did comment on the other feats.

In general, those feats don't sound much better than fooling basic human eyesight.

Tricked site 17? That tricking humans.
Hid from 682? 682 doesn't have senses superior to Reki's from what is on his profile.
Tricked Clef? Clef is ultimately just a human what senses are concerned.
None of those approach Reki's eyesight.

Oh and here is the full quote: Addendum 408-B: Recent field testing has shown that SCP-408 can act as an effective form of active invisibility when ordered to. SCP-408 was able to conceal five Level 2 personnel and keep them undetected throughout the facility. Tests show the concealment to operate at 99.997% efficiency, and can be maintained for up to five hours without need for rest or recuperation. The option of lending SCP-408 to Task Forces for covert operations is pending approval.

So yeah, that's a feat of camouflage on the level of working on normal humans. Not on super senses.

You have not yet brought up an argument against my other points regarding spotting him either. How does he evade Haimaki's senses and what can he do if he has to surround himself 360°?

 

[Lou_change]

Yeah, but that too few butterflies make the image worse, doesn't mean that more butterflies make the image better. It's like an issue of resolution. If you don't have enough screens you can't cover a large volume of stuff with them, but having 500 screens won't improve the resolution you can get in a small area.

The fact it is stated to be for five people implies a difference for one person and five. Also right about the screen thing but he also knows this so he can create fake himselves, fake monsters, fake walls and more.

I don't understand what you mean with the they see each other before the fight thing. Yes, they know how their opponent looks, but Kondraki hardly knows that she is a superhuman sniper that can shoot around corners just because he sees her having a rifle... heck, did you know that the real versions of Reki's rifles have a lethal range smaller than Reki's 100% hit range? Seeing those might even throw him off.

he knows she has a sniper rifle, and isn't near him he will most likely assume she can snipe, the guns being able to shoot further than normal might cause problems still.

Tricked site 17? That tricking humans.

It was a lot of them for context: Incident 408-A: Due to a failure by appropriate personnel to properly refill 408’s feeders, the swarm took it upon itself to find sustenance by its own means. Taking the appearance of several level 1 personnel, SCP-408 convinced a passerby to open the door to the aviary, upon which they made an escape into the Site 17 facility. For the whole of the day, Site 17 personnel reported an alarming series of irregular events, ranging from color changing walls to several dozen versions of SCP-529 walking down a hallway. Site 17 was placed on lockdown and Delta Level Alert when it appeared that 90% of the containment units had been breached. Dr. Kondraki, Head of Research for 408 had been out on assignment that day, and it wasn’t until his return that the illusion had been revealed, and in short order SCP-408 was returned to its aviary. Little damage was done, except to the faculty break room, which was left without proper sweeteners for the next week.

Hid from 682?

I didn't realize SCP-682 lacks enhanced senses

Tricked Clef?

At the time he had things that let him see perfectly fine after his retinas were fried active and clef has a decent amount of experience with reality warpers.

So yeah, that's a feat of camouflage on the level of working on normal humans. Not on super senses.

Facompletely

How does he evade Haimaki's senses and what can he do if he has to surround himself 360°?

I think I explained the first part and more of the time he does cover himself completely such as the time he was standing in front of SCP 083 next to his butterflies opened the door to SCP-682 behind 083, had the butterflies fly around the room, hide him where he avoids 682 and 083 the whole fight and climbs on to 682's back just as the fight end and he reveals himself in this time 682, 083 and the foundation thru cameras couldn't see him at all while hidden in the butterflies.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The fact it is stated to be for five people implies a difference for one person and five. Also right about the screen thing but he also knows this so he can create fake himselves, fake monsters, fake walls and more.

Yeah, it implies a difference between number of people, but no quantifiable difference. Hiding 5 people from normal humans, doesn't mean 1 person can be hidden from some who's superhuman. Just that it can hide from something at least slightly better than a human.

Creating fakes is nice, but... I mean, for one Reki is quickly going to learn the trick and two Reki can shoot those things and by that diminish his butterfly supply. I don't think he will generate much of an advantage that way.

he knows she has a sniper rifle, and isn't near him he will most likely assume she can snipe

Sure, but.... why advantage does he gain by that? Or are you saying he wouldn't have used stealth otherwise?

It was a lot of them for context: Incident 408-A: Due to a failure by appropriate personnel to properly refill 408’s feeders, the swarm took it upon itself to find sustenance by its own means. Taking the appearance of several level 1 personnel, SCP-408 convinced a passerby to open the door to the aviary, upon which they made an escape into the Site 17 facility. For the whole of the day, Site 17 personnel reported an alarming series of irregular events, ranging from color changing walls to several dozen versions of SCP-529 walking down a hallway. Site 17 was placed on lockdown and Delta Level Alert when it appeared that 90% of the containment units had been breached. Dr. Kondraki, Head of Research for 408 had been out on assignment that day, and it wasn’t until his return that the illusion had been revealed, and in short order SCP-408 was returned to its aviary. Little damage was done, except to the faculty break room, which was left without proper sweeteners for the next week.

Ok. Thing is, fooling lots of people via camouflage isn't really better than fooling one person. Like, if each of those humans can't see through the illusion, then all of them together can't either. Vision doesn't improve by numbers.

At the time he had things that let him see perfectly fine after his retinas were fried active and clef has a decent amount of experience with reality warpers.

Not sure what his experience with reality warpers matters for this...
And did those things that let him see perfectly fine after his retinas were fried improve his vision or just restore it to normal human levels?

I think I explained the first part and more of the time he does cover himself completely such as the time he was standing in front of SCP 083 next to his butterflies opened the door to SCP-682 behind 083, had the butterflies fly around the room, hide him where he avoids 682 and 083 the whole fight and climbs on to 682's back just as the fight end and he reveals himself in this time 682, 083 and the foundation thru cameras couldn't see him at all while hidden in the butterflies.

I... don't see where you explained how he evades the combat-trained wolf with its senses of smell and hearing yet.

 

[Lou_change]

Yeah, it implies a difference between number of people, but no quantifiable difference. Hiding 5 people from normal humans, doesn't mean 1 person can be hidden from some who's superhuman. Just that it can hide from something at least slightly better than a human.

Creating fakes is nice, but... I mean, for one Reki is quickly going to learn the trick and two Reki can shoot those things and by that diminish his butterfly supply. I don't think he will generate much of an advantage that way.

I don't have an argument for the first one but he has hundreds of butterflies and all they need to do is stall a few minutes but the thing is she isn't going to know they have consistently created illusions without being realized the cause almost even time they do anything and are quite durable

Sure, but.... why advantage does he gain by that? Or are you saying he wouldn't have used stealth otherwise?

To put it simple he does whatever it feels like most of the time often he uses illusions but he also decided to throw piss at a super human with nothing in the room to defend him.

The next two you have a good point.

I... don't see where you explained how he evades the combat-trained wolf with its senses of smell and hearing yet.

The one about 2 kilometers away that he can realistically kill with a stab or shot one.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I don't have an argument for the first one but he has hundreds of butterflies and all they need to do is stall a few minutes but the thing is she isn't going to know they have consistently created illusions without being realized the cause almost even time they do anything and are quite durable

If Reki sees them form the illusions and sees them disperse after creating the illusions she will know what is going on. And Kondraki will need over 4 mintes to reach her, which is enough to cause lots of damage.

And the butterflies aren't super fast either. They can't create any illusions close to Reki in that timeframe.

The one about 2 kilometers away that he can realistically kill with a stab or shot one.

Too bad that Kondraki's range isn't several kilometers long, but only several meters with SCP-515-ARC and dozens of meters with normal firearms.
Wolves can smell prey 2.5km away and hear over miles.

And if Dr. Kondraki exposes himself to shoot the wolf Reki's bullet will immediately find him in retaliation. She can aim incredibly fast.

 

[Lou_change]

If Reki sees them form the illusions and sees them disperse after creating the illusions she will know what is going on. And Kondraki will need over 4 mintes to reach her, which is enough to cause lots of damage.

That is a big if

Too bad that Kondraki's range isn't several kilometers long, but only several meters with SCP-515-ARC and dozens of meters with normal firearms.
Wolves can smell prey 2.5km away and hear over miles.

That wolf doesn't exactly have a method to point where he is.

And if Dr. Kondraki exposes himself to shoot the wolf Reki's bullet will immediately find him in retaliation. She can aim incredibly fast.

He won't have to expose himself.

 

[DontTalkDT]

That is a big if

Not really. After she shoots them she definitely would see them disperse. Additionally, that girl can see around corners via reflections and stuff, so picking up on them forming is hardly impossible.

That wolf doesn't exactly have a method to point where he is.

? Don't know about you, but I can hear and smell in all directions. Like seriously, the wolf knows how he smells, so do you really think he can't trace him?

He won't have to expose himself.

And how exactly is he supposed to shoot without creating an opening in the camouflage?

 

[Lou_change]

Not really. After she shoots them she definitely would see them disperse. Additionally, that girl can see around corners via reflections and stuff, so picking up on them forming is hardly impossible.

They were able to do the site 17 sugar raid without being realized site 17 is often comparable to site 19's security and they only found out it was 408 after it willing revealed it's self not that it really knew site 17's security and what reflections the odds are likely he isn't near water.

? Don't know about you, but I can hear and smell in all directions. Like seriously, the wolf knows how he smells, so do you really think he can't trace him?

I mean that the wolf can't just say he is front center a little bit to the left it has to run over given Dr. Kondraki has more options at that range than a wolf that won't end well for it.

And how exactly is he supposed to shoot without creating an opening in the camouflage?

Same as he sees outside it even the he is covered in bullet resistant butterflies except a hand or two if I am being generous.

Honestly I am leaning towards incon because butterfly 99.997% camouflage and bullet is vague.

 

[Kirinator07]

Necro, Dr. Kondraki evaded SCP-682 who has enhanced senses from seeing SCP-963 which can only be seen with wavelength from 700 to 900 nm, Reki can't see invisible stuff so Kondraki takes this as my vote.

 

[DontTalkDT]

How does not seeing invisible stuff matter?
I mean, given the arguments already brought up in the thread.

Also, evading someone that can see a special wavelength of light is not the same as evading someone with superhumanly good perception. That's basically seeing colours others can't see vs. seeing in higher resolution.

 

[Kirinator07]

How does not seeing invisible stuff matter?
I mean, given the arguments already brought up in the thread.

The one where Dr. Clef's vision was brought in was disregarded.

Also, evading someone that can see a special wavelength of light is not the same as evading someone with superhumanly good perception. That's basically seeing colours others can't see vs. seeing in higher resolution.

How is seeing in a higher revolution all of a sudden going to result in her seeing him at a different wavelength? Can someone with an eyesight of 6x that of a person even see in a different area of the spectrum? She hasn't shown anything similar to it.

Does Kon use SCP-515-ARC?

 

[Kirinator07]

Cause if he does, then he flashes her with it even with those senses as she's temporarily blind and then gets shot at, also I searched that anything comparable to Eagles can only see up to UV rays which is only 300-400 nm, so there goes that assumption. 682 was also able to superhumanly smell and hear 966 similar to Haimaki yet Kon evaded it.