Huge American Gods Revision

[Sir_Ovens]

It took me a while to get back onto the series due to time and the quality drop, but what the series lacked in CG budget and good cinematography, it made up with a buttload of feats.

Avatars and The Backstage
In Season 2, we were introduced to this place called The Backstage. It is a place where the Gods reveal their true forms. Now, we have evidence to believe that Gods are very mortal and killable in the real world such as Zorya Vechernyaya being shot by a sniper rifle and dying. However, Gods can't permanently die unless they kill themselves. This is another issue we'll get into later.

Given the above information, Gods should have 2 keys. Avatar and Backstage. The AP of avatars vary and I'll cover that later, but Gods in the Backstage should be 5-A based on Zorya Polunochnaya's feat. They can possibly be 3-A based on Polunochnaya's statement that she and her sisters keep Simargl trapped in the stars, and that if he escapes, the universe could be consumed by him. Remember, Gods in the series are powered by belief, which means that peak Simargl could very much pull this off if enough people believe it.

Old Gods P&A Additions
All: Empowerment (Gods grow stronger the more people believe in them), Type 1 Abstract Existence (Backstage keys only), Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation, Avatar Creation, Social Influencing (When Gods preach, people start to believe what they're saying), Omnipresence (Backstage keys only), and Time Stop (When in the Backstage, time does not pass in the real world)

Wednesday/Odi: Type 8 Immortality Negation with the Sword of Vulcan

Mad Sweeney/Lugh: Hammerspace (Via the Horde), Teleportation (Via the Horde), Weapon Mastery (Was called Long-Arm, for his skill with a spear; Lugh key only), BFR (Via the Horde)

Sweeney also should get a new key from when he was Lugh, Celtic God of the Sun. In this key, he managed to kill the Irish rendition of Odin.

Shadow Moon/Moon Shadow: Causality Manipulation (Stopped a SWAT team from entering the mortuary and rewrote causality making it seem like the national data leak was a hoax; Backstage key only)

New Gods P&A Additions
All: Empowerment (Gods grow stronger the more people believe in them), Type 1 Abstract Existence (Backstage keys only), Type 3 Conceptual Manipulation, Avatar Creation, Social Influencing (When Gods preach, people start to believe what they're saying), Nigh-Omnipresence (New Gods have avatars that can exist everywhere at once), Time Stop (When in the Backstage, time does not pass in the real world), and Adaptation (New Gods are capable of evolving into new forms whenever material relating to their concept evolves)

Media/New Media: Nigh-Omniscience (Knows any information posted on any form of media), Mind Manipulation (Controlled the minds of every news anchor in America to falsely accuse Wednesday and Shadow of homicide)

Telephone Boy/Technical Boy/Quantum Boy: Hacking, Power Bestowal (Was alluded to giving Media her powers and existence)

Downgrades
All Gods should be around 10-B to 9-C with their avatars as we have not seen any of them use their powers on each other physically at all. Wednesday and Easter should get Low 7-B and 7-B respectively with their powers.

Laura Moon should be 9-C, likely higher. I don't know where her 9-A feat comes from as I have yet to see her bust a building. She's physically the strongest cast member, so she gets the likely higher.

Miscellaneous
All Gods can permanently die if they kill themselves. This is symbolic of them losing faith in themselves which is a nice touch to the overall theme of belief.

Zorya Sisters should be one profile, as we see in the Hall of Gods scene, they are a single entity with 3 heads.

Thanks to Ultima Reality for helping me with this revision.

 

[Schnee_One]

Is there any proof that Wednesday physically scales to his storms? Wouldn't it just be environmental destruction?

Also is it even a Low 7B storm tobegin with?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

No, Wednesday's avatar is just 10-B. He's Low 7-B with his storm powers.

I say Low 7-B because he was supposed to be shifted there when the High 7-C storm revisions were implemented.

 

[Schnee_One]

So it's environmental destruction, alright, that's fine.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I mean he struck lightning down and killed a bunch of people so that would at least warrant him 8-C applicable AP with his powers.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

There's also the issue of whether or not Backstage Gods have infinite speed or are just resistant to time stop since when a God activates their Backstage self in the presence of another God, they are unaffected by the change around them.

 

[Ogbunabali]

>Now, we have evidence to believe that Gods are very mortal and killable in the real world such as Zorya Vechernyaya being shot by a sniper rifle and dying

Wasn't this because of the special bullets? I mean it literally said "Deus Mortuorum" (God killer) on it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

That doesn't prove that those were special "God-killing" bullets. Most media have words engaved into bullets for dramatic effect all the time.

Besides, they mentioned how she couldn't create a new avatar due to her lack of worshippers. If she was worshipped more, she would have came back just fine.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I mean that was certainly the implication. And as you say, she didn't have much worshipers nor was did she have any strong will to live at that point, if I recall correctly.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

What I mean is that avatars can be destroyed but their true forms will never be destroyed unless they stop believing in themselves.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Most of this seems fine, although Laura is most definitely not 9-C. She is 9-B at least, given she flipped an Ice Cream truck with one hand while rotting away.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I am also unsure about Odin being physically 10-B; He is a War God, after all, and one of the Old Gods with the most consistent sources of power, so I wouldn't say he is inferior to Laura to that extent, especially when another War God like Kali was directly shown to be unimpressed by her threats or by what she can do in general.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

There's also the issue of whether or not Backstage Gods have infinite speed or are just resistant to time stop since when a God activates their Backstage self in the presence of another God, they are unaffected by the change around them.

What of this, Ultima?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I'd say it's just the latter, yeah.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also.

Those bullets were shot by Mr. World's agents. They weren't ordinary bullets.

But yes, Backstage Keys are absolutely a necessity while high-level gods in the Real World should be Tier 7.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Other feats for Odin would be his car / horse making a train crash upon collision and them regenerating itself in seconds.

Also when he and Thor fought in the 1930s a storm started happening on the city just by Odin slamming Gungnir into the ground. So I think that "Unknown Physically, Low 7-B with Powers" is fine.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also...

"It took me a while to get back onto the series due to time and the quality drop, but what the series lacked in CG budget and good cinematography, it made up with a buttload of feats."

Dude what are you talking about, Season 2 had just as great cinematography and effects as Season 1. Honestly better in some aspects.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I've updated the OP with new stuff.

How much support would I need for this to go through?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Dude what are you talking about, Season 2 had just as great cinematography and effects as Season 1. Honestly better in some aspects.

Idk, I feel like there were a lot less dream-like sequences and ideas were conveyed with a lot more exposition.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

also I wouldn't call it "Avatar Creation", but more how they are in the Real World.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So... can this be applied?

There aren't a lot of American Gods supporters.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We just need to agree on the specifics of the revisions, is all.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Alright. Just wanted to add that Wednesday said that Gods can't affect each other with their powers. So Gods should get resistances to each other's abilities.

More evidence to back this up would be how the New Gods don't just teleport to Wednesday's position even though they're effectively omnipresent. Wednesday couldn't charm the Old Gods into joining him and had to convince them. Every God's death so far is a physical one, and not one done with magic or powers.

 

[ByAsura]

I've watched AG Season 1 and read the novel. I can chip into this as well.

"Now, we have evidence to believe that Gods are very mortal and killable in the real world such as Zorya Vechernyaya being shot by a sniper rifle and dying." I'm fairly sure this is a very specific weakness to the New Gods' bullets as (spoilers in case you haven't read the novel or this isn't in the TV Show) Mr. Wednesday had half his face blown off by one of their sniper rifles.

In the novel after Mr. Wednesday (again spoilers in case you haven't read the novel or this isn't in the TV Show) still exists as a ghost after he's killed and there's even an old world incarnation who doesn't have a glass eye, so that supports the abstract stuff. However, Jesus has many different forms due to variation of beliefs people have in him, so I'm not sure this is all limited to their "backstage". Although my knowledge of Season 2 is limited, I also know Technical Boy became Phone and Quantum Boy due to recent technological advances in the world.

"but Gods in the Backstage should be 5-A based on Zorya Polunochnaya's feat." Didn't she pull this off in an avatar? Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know much about the back stage stuff.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Zorya did the 5-A feat in a dream Shadow had, which in turn had an effect on the real world. Considering she was watching the stars and said that the Simargl was still chained within them, I am fairly sure the feat was done in the Backstage, which is sort of an abstract mindscape where Gods can access their true forms and utilize their full power.

 

[ByAsura]

Ah, ok. Like I said, I don't know much about this whole Backstage thing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

She did this in a "Dream" sequence. But the events of said "Dream" had consequence in the Real World, with Shadow waking up with the silver coin in his pocket. The Backstage is explained in detail to be a mental realm of realm of dreams and ideas where the gods are born and shaped from collective human psyche, and so Zorya doing her feat in the "Dream" heavily suggests it was done in the Backstage, where gods are more powerful as they're purely imaginary and not physical.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

She did it in Shadow's dream, she wasn't physically present.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Asura

The profiles are based on the show cause books ain't got much feats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

She did it in Shadow's dream, she wasn't physically present.

Actually, later on when Wednesday is talking to the Old Zorya on the street causing that storm to happen we see the Young Zorya on the rooftop.

 

[ByAsura]

@Matt Ok.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Hmm... So what tiers would you suggest their Real World and Backstage keys have?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is how I'd Tier Wednesday

Tier: Unknown Physically, Low 7-B with Powers | At least 5-A

Most of the other gods that are moderately strong would be on this level. This means Czernobog, Kali, Donnar, the Zoryas and Colombia I guess, Vulcan, Easter (Actually Easter should be higher given her feat of parting the storm, calced at 7-B, and removing the Spring from Kentucky, but "At least 7-B, likely Higher" works in her case).

There are a ton of gods who absolutely wouldn't scale, though. Like Thoth and Anubis, or Mr. Nancy. Hell, even some of the New Gods shouldn't scale (See Argus and Mr. Town, who doesn't even count as a New God himself but rather merely an "agent" of them).

 

[Sir_Ovens]

What are your thoughts on possibly 3-A Backstage Gods scaling from Simargl?

So Vulcan and Easter would be straight up 7-B, or Unknow physcially, 7-B with powers?

Town isn't a God. He's listed as a Spook on the American Gods wiki.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That's what Town is in the Books. The Spooks don't exist in the Show. But he's clearly a lesser supernatural entity that works for the New Gods. Much like the Scoutgirls.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I made a draft for the changes the New and Old Gods get.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

New Media is such a different character she should be her own page.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ok but is everyone alright with the proposed changes?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

As a lowball for Backstage Gods, they should get likely High 4-C for the Zorya Sisters containing Simargl in the Big Dipper constellation, which I have calced to be 4.809e+42J (GBE of the sun x the 7 stars that make up Big Dipper).

As a highball, they should get 3-A due to Ultima telling me that in Slavic mythology, Simargl is supposed to destroy the entirety of the universe should it escape. He also told me it's ok to scale myths to verses if said verse follows the myth very closely.

If no one objects to this, I can start adjusting profiles.

 

[Schnee_One]

GoH vs American Gods