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How would you kill Azathoth from Cthulhu Mythos?

DarkGrath said:
Well, that's why they're called the blind "idiot" god.
That isn't used to refer to Azathoth as an idiot in the traditional sense. It comes from the original terminology for "idiot", which essentially means "someone who completely separates themselves from the whole" (it only later evolved into the less nuanced term that we know today).

So that part of Azathoth's title is literally stating that he is a non-participant in the system. He's not just another layer of transcendence in the Cthulhu Mythos, he's completely separated from the whole.
Click to expand...
He actually isn't completely separated

Going by the two interpretations yes. The first and most popular being "Azathoth dreams everything" that is participating in the system still. You have to participate to keep dreaming all of existence. Going by the second interpretation (Yog being equal to Azzy), will Azzy being detached is contracted by the fact Yog whom is equal to Azzy is all encompassing and thus attached to the system.

(From what ive spoken to my son regarding the Creator, its likely they'd be one or two tiers below the Outer Gods simply because they don't transcend as much higher stuff as the former do.)
 
Uradelbauer said:
Azathoth sits in the middle of existence but dreams it at the same time?
Click to expand...
1. Its actually above totality as a whole not just the center of it

2. Him dreaming doesnt require him to be outside the dream. People enter their own dreams all the time, thats how dreams occur.

3. Much more complex than that
 
Well, fair enough. This is all up to major interpretation because Lovecraft is so bloody pretentious with his language choices that you can't take anything he says at base value so that makes sense too.
 
Ionliosite said:
I personally consider Creator to above Azzy by such an stupidly amount that's basically irrelevant, because the cosmologies of both verses sound identical, except Creator appears to have higher trascendence over Featherine than Azzy does over Yog.
Click to expand...
How so? Azathoth sits completely external to the entire cosmology as a whole, he isn't just trascendent of it. Said cosmolgy is a Tier 0.
 
Uradelbauer said:
Oh, I see. Does the fact the Outer Gods are able to affect him with their music affect his Tier 0 status?
Click to expand...
The "Music affecting Azathoth" thing shouldn't be taken at face value.

Its not really stated (atleast from what I remember) that the music forces him to sleep. Its said they play the song and dance hoping he doesn't wake the **** up.
 
AogiriKira said:
1. Its actually above totality as a whole not just the center of it

2. Him dreaming doesnt require him to be outside the dream. People enter their own dreams all the time, thats how dreams occur.

3. Much more complex than that
Click to expand...
A lot of people seem to forget that the Azathoth in the center of the Outer Void (which is far superior to the Dreamlands, which are in turn conceptually beyond existence and non-existence themselves) is actually not the real thing. It's Azathoth in the way that your self in a dream is the real you (aka it isn't). He actually exists beyond the entire totality that is Yog-Sothoth. That gargoyle of him gets punched in the face by Nyarlathotep at some point.

And him being equal to Yog isn't ever explicitly stated in the canon Mythos anyway.
 
Uradelbauer said:
Oh, I see. Does the fact the Outer Gods are able to affect him with their music affect his Tier 0 status?
Click to expand...
Ignoring the fact that the Court of Azathoth is a High 1-A pantheon of platonic deities, they aren't really affecting him since cause and effect don't exist at these levels. What we apply to them in descriptions are just our feeble attempts to comprehend what is only a fractional part of these beings. It's equally likely that Azathoth is simultaneously awake and asleep as causality is rendered meaningless at these levels.
 
Tony di bugalu said:
I thought that stuff about platonic beings was already called out as bs across the wiki?
Click to expand...
.....What? That's literally their entire shtick. Fan's blogs explain it better than me but in layman's terms, the Outer Gods are archetypal ideas from which all of existence is "cut".
 
No, I literally mean that a character being called "platonic" or something like that was already called out as pure bs as there was no such thing in the sense of just being called that is not enough for getting a tier.

Also, do someone knows when can we expect the Umineko downgrade?
 
Tony di bugalu said:
No, I literally mean that a character being called "platonic" or something like that was already called out as pure bs as there was no such thing.
Also, do someone knows when can we expect the Umineko downgrade?
Click to expand...
Oh, that's what you meant. My bad. Well the Outer Gods aren't ever called that in canon but they're essentially concepts from which all of reality is derived. Don't know whether or not that's platonic but I thought you were saying that the Outer Gods aren't abstract or something like that.

By the way, I heard that all of the witches sans Beatrice, Featherine and maybe a few Voyagers are below Hypnos. Is this true or just BS?
 
Tony di bugalu said:
Don't take me at face value but the word in the street is that everyone in Umineko might end up taking the D hammer
Click to expand...
In your view, how bad? On a scale of TOAA to The Star Maker levels of downgrade.
 
I dunno mate, I know heck about Umineko so I could be wrong as hell.

But if it happens the creator might end up as high 1-A tho, possibly 0 but I dunno

Since Umineko is in an eternal limbo of revisions this might never happen
 
I've always found Umineko being this high after 1-A Human Domain being debunked kinda iffy. Oh well. At least it doesn't have the worse downgrade for a 1-A verse. The Great Old Ones are moving to Unknown. Gan is no longer Tier 0. TOAA is no longer Tier 0. TLoW is moving to High 1-A. Kami Tenchi is getting the D hammer.

The Star Maker takes the cake by far, going from inconning the Ultimate Gods to losing to YHVH.
 
Tony di bugalu said:
The Maker on Cthulhu lvls
Whaa.?
Click to expand...
I was once skimming through old CM threads and I found one where he was inconning Shub-Niggurath (This was back when Shub transcending the Outer Gods was legit). I found another where he inconned the Ultimate Gods and this was after people had to reason out that Star didn't beat them.

Now he gets stomped by STTGL and it's hilarious.
 
Actually... I think I'm the only one who knows the character while a lot of people just go to its blog, and type "cntr+f", looking for dimensions. Talking about the maker...

Also, who the hell tried to make a thread about Azza-one getting defeated? That isn't even on a conceptual level of comprehension, and even if you reach omniscience you would know the fact that there's no way of taking literally the whole sleeping metaphor...
 
Still though, certain people thinking that Star can stalemate an Outer God is something that makes me wonder the mental, philosophical and logical acrobatics needed to come to that conclusion.

I'm pretty sure Azathoth could sleep through an onsalught from the entire wiki and at best, get roused by the Creator. This thread is non-sensical but definitely amusing.
 
The complexity regarding Azathoth and The Creator makes me think: why should they compare who is stronger? Do they even care about that? Just because both of them have a profile doesn't mean WoG was able to say the way... "someone"? No, very basic. Even "something" is a noun below what "they" represent.

Trust me... I found things regarding Stapledon that are very plausible, talking about reasonings he had regarding some things in The Maker's story (and will probably help me in college) . But first I would need to comprehend this clearly...
 
Both of them are pretty ridiculously transcendent, though I heard they might be getting slightly nerfed with revisions.
 
The best way to describe Aza is very simple and I don't understand why some people are struggling here. Aza exists beyond any- and everything. IF you can describe something Aza exists beyond that. He exists beyond everything and nothing, the describable and the indescribable as well as all of existence and non-existence. He is beyond Omnipresence, Omniscience and Omnipotence as these are only fragments of Azas slumber.
 
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