how Layers n Greater work

[Ommf_Deity]

lol

 

[Zabazab]

Sorry but you're just wrong

Moreover, layering should not be thought of as applying to abilities which intuitively can be overcome with magnitude, such as heat resistance or analytical prediction.

Heat resistance can intuitively be overcome with magnitude. And no, that line was not implying thar there is layered fire manipulation, it was an example of why fire manipulation is not an ability which is to be thought of in layers. As far as the standards are concerned, layered fire manipulation does not exist. I'm also not going to entertain any silly hypotheticals as I said previously. Feel free to get wiki standards changed with some thread, but the hax page is very clear for now that you cannot layer abilities with measurable potency based in magnitude or quantity.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Heat resistance can intuitively be overcome with magnitude. And no, that line was not implying thar there is layered fire manipulation, it was an example of why fire manipulation is not an ability which is to be thought of in layers. As far as the standards are concerned, layered fire manipulation does not exist. I'm also not going to entertain any silly hypotheticals as I said previously. Feel free to get wiki standards changed with some thread, but the hax page is very clear for now that you cannot layer abilities with measurable potency based in magnitude or quantity.

honestly that's just starting to get circular and not adding up anything into Monkey's point.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Heat resistance can intuitively be overcome with magnitude. And no, that line was not implying thar there is layered fire manipulation, it was an example of why fire manipulation is not an ability which is to be thought of in layers. As far as the standards are concerned, layered fire manipulation does not exist. I'm also not going to entertain any silly hypotheticals as I said previously. Feel free to get wiki standards changed with some thread, but the hax page is very clear for now that you cannot layer abilities with measurable potency based in magnitude or quantity.

So you're basically just saying no because no...

layering should not be thought of as applying to abilities which intuitively can be overcome with magnitude... (then giving an example of what that would mean, using something hotter than their resistance would not make it a layer)

That statement does not say; moreover, layering does not work on abilities that can be overcome with magnitude

Ultimately no where on that page does it directly oppose layered fire manipulation as what you two are trying to say it does

So I don't at all need to create a thread, maybe explaining and giving more information for the "Layering" section would be better for understandings but ultimately it does not explicitly state at all with what you guys are insinuating

Edit: It clearly even referes specifically to "heat resistant" that it cannot be overcome by magnitude to make it a layer, and nothing about layered fire manipulation and why I'm saying it's implying that you can, just not via that way of thinking

 

[AigerTheKing]

Heat resistance can intuitively be overcome with magnitude. And no, that line was not implying thar there is layered fire manipulation, it was an example of why fire manipulation is not an ability which is to be thought of in layers. As far as the standards are concerned, layered fire manipulation does not exist. I'm also not going to entertain any silly hypotheticals as I said previously. Feel free to get wiki standards changed with some thread, but the hax page is very clear for now that you cannot layer abilities with measurable potency based in magnitude or quantity.

This doesn't even change anything I said. 5000°C will never overcome 5000°C throught pure magnitude.

And no, that line was not implying thar there is layered fire manipulation, it was an example of why fire manipulation is not an ability which is to be thought of in layers.

Circular reasoning at its peak

 

[mal]

You're fundamentally misunderstanding what Layers are. Layers as you've asked are a metric for hax, not for AP or higher worlds.

Having superior AP doesn't mean you have superior layers by default. It requires showings of people bypassing a hax resistance, so somebody who succesfully use Mind Control on a person who resists it would get 1 Layer for their Mind Control.

Just because somebody comes from a "higher world" does NOT mean they get higher layers unless the verse explicitly mentions such a function.

Terms like "Greater" and "Enhanced" are basically just interchangeable, meant to showcase the improvement upon an ability. For example, Greater/Enhanced Acrobatics means the same thing.

im talking about Hax not AP. because i saw char profile have greater manipulation even thought his power come from the higher layers,just because he go down to the lowest layer n affected people in the lower layer (lower than his original layer)

 

[KLOL506]

@Agnaa @DontTalkDT

 

[Ommf_Deity]

im talking about Hax not AP. because i saw char profile have greater manipulation even thought his power come from the higher layers,just because he go down to the lowest layer n affected people in the lower layer (lower than his original layer)

I forgor, What was your question again?

 

[mal]

I forgor, What was your question again?

my question is

if Char A from the higher layers (let say layer 10) go down to the lowest layer (layer 1) and affected chars from layers 2-9 with his power/hax. does it still count as greater hax even though he originally from the higher layers.

 

[Ommf_Deity]

my question is

if Char A from the higher layers (let say layer 10) go down to the lowest layer (layer 1) and affected chars from layers 2-9 with his power/hax. does it still count as greater hax even though he originally from the higher layers.

What do you means by going down to lowest layer?

Layers aren't reality or realms you can go, they are the ability to bypass resistance to the same the ability.

It Depends what do you means greater hax and context, cuz some layers like heat, cold, ect. do count as greater power, others like reality warping doesn't.

 

[mal]

What do you by going down to lowest layer?

Layers aren't reality or realms you can go, they are the ability to bypass resistance to the same the ability.

It Depends what do you means greater hax and context, cuz some layers like heat, cold, ect. do count as greater power, others like reality warping doesn't.

he reincarnated to the lowest layers. his power originally came from the higher layer

 

[Ommf_Deity]

he reincarnated to the lowest layers. his power originally came from the higher layer

Who reincarnated?, what are you talking about

 

[mal]

Who reincarnated?, what are you talking about

Char A

 

[StekFence]

Heat resistance can intuitively be overcome with magnitude. And no, that line was not implying thar there is layered fire manipulation, it was an example of why fire manipulation is not an ability which is to be thought of in layers. As far as the standards are concerned, layered fire manipulation does not exist. I'm also not going to entertain any silly hypotheticals as I said previously. Feel free to get wiki standards changed with some thread, but the hax page is very clear for now that you cannot layer abilities with measurable potency based in magnitude or quantity.

I think if somebody burned someone else with fire that the character should be able to withstand, layering is not the first choice of what happened to Me. If character B absolutely and definitely has such a fire resist, and character A absolutely and definitely has such a fire, then it’s prob just negating or nullifying the resistance. Or some stupid conceptual fire stuff. I can hardly imagine a writer writing a fire that burns that which cannot be burnt without it.

 

[Agnaa]

whats the difference between Greater / Layers / Higher Degree. how can u get it n how did it work

• Greater: This ability is stronger than it was in the character's previous key.
• Layers: This ability works on something that was previously unaffected by a similar type of ability, so we interpret it as being stronger.
• Higher Degree: Not sure what's meant by that, my best guess is that it's referring to heat/fire, where higher temperature (and so, a more impressive feat) is described as higher degree?

 

[Zabazab]

That statement does not say; moreover, layering does not work on abilities that can be overcome with magnitude

This is a synonymous sentence.

I can hardly imagine a writer writing a fire that burns that which cannot be burnt without it.

Heheheheh

The flash of crimson ran diagonally, and without any resistance, it burned away Sphinx’s ten white lights that had immediately tried to intercept Abel. It was illogical for light to burst into flames, but the supernatural power that could make one believe it was natural was contained within the Yang Sword’s radiance, and therefore the following conclusion was inevitable.

“―Ah.” And, leaking out a hoarse breath, Sphinx, having taken a great leap backwards, looked down at herself. The Witch had fallen back with agile movements, however, one tuft of her pink hair had been cut by the flash of the Yang Sword― that instant, Sphinx’s whole body ignited.

And, that was not just the Sphinx who had been cut; the fire also spread to the Sphinx whom she herself had shot and reduced to dust, as well as the Sphinx who had been turning into an amethyst crystal. ―The Yang Sword Vollachia had decided to burn the Witch, Sphinx, to naught. —Re:Zero, Arc 8 "Vincent Vollachia", Chapter 59 "Sphinx"

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This is a synonymous sentence.

Just not true, the actual sentence is about explaining how layering works and not what specific abilities don't... (hence the example they give is by trying to use magnitude as a way to prove that it is a layer)

 

[mal]

• Greater: This ability is stronger than it was in the character's previous key.

let say theres 9 worlds and the higher world are stronger than the lower world

char B from world 9 power affected higher worlds (8-1).

is it still count as "greater"?

but what if Char B real power originally came from the higher world? is it anti feats for "greater"?

 

[Ommf_Deity]

the higher world are stronger than the lower world

Depend on what you mean by stronger, and if that "stronger" include the hax and abilities as well

char B from world 9 power affected higher worlds (8-1).

is it still count as "greater"?

Like I said above^

but what if Char B real power originally came from the higher world? is it anti feats for "greater"?

That's won't consider anti feat, but won't also consider greater hax. Unless given proper context

 

[Agnaa]

let say theres 9 worlds and the higher world are stronger than the lower world

char B from world 9 power affected higher worlds (8-1).

is it still count as "greater"?

Unless they were only able to affect lower worlds in previous keys, I'd say no. As, imo, that's a relative thing.

but what if Char B real power originally came from the higher world? is it anti feats for "greater"?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

 

[mal]

Unless they were only able to affect lower worlds in previous keys, I'd say no. As, imo, that's a relative thing.

so people in the highest layers world still can get "greater hax" if they affected peoples in the lower/weaker world? (if they go down to the lower layers)

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

im trying to say that my power/hax originally came from the stronger/higher layers. if i go down to the lower layers w my power n affected them w my power, will it still count as greater or not?

 

[Agnaa]

so people in the highest layers world still can get "greater hax" if they affected peoples in the lower/weaker world? (if they go down to the lower layers)

It's just that the word "greater" before abilities on profiles just means that it improved from that character's previous key. It means nothing about the absolute strength of it.

im trying to say that my power/hax originally came from the stronger/higher layers. if i go down to the lower layers w my power n affected them w my power, will it still count as greater or not?

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, we can generally tell based on context whether their power shifts to become weaker when they inhabit lower layers.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It's just that the word "greater" before abilities on profiles just means that it improved from that character's previous key. It means nothing about the absolute strength of it.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, we can generally tell based on context whether their power shifts to become weaker when they inhabit lower layers.

Just say no lol, he's basically saying (well I think so) that if I (Layers 8) overpowered you and your layers (Layer 5), would I get greater hax (for layers 8)... Which is no most of the time if not all the time

 

[mal]

It's just that the word "greater" before abilities on profiles just means that it improved from that character's previous key. It means nothing about the absolute strength of it.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, we can generally tell based on context whether their power shifts to become weaker when they inhabit lower layers.

so basically u will get greater if ur ability become weaker when u go down to the lower world n when u going up,your power become stronger (not stronger than ur original power in youur original world)?

correct?

 

[Agnaa]

Incorrect.

 

[mal]

Incorrect.

so which 1 better. layer or greater? or it depends on contexts/feats?