Hoshi (µÿƒ) Feats Standards

[Theuser789]

Outside of the feats argument, which I don't want to get into right now since honestly it's a bit irrelevant when discussing the validity of a statment's translation, I'm still not seeing what contradicts the star statement myself. Sega of America are pretty competent at translations. They aren't like Viz Media. If the official translation says stars, I don't know why it should be ignored. Also, if it's by multiple sources, I don't see the issue here. Now I'm arguing specifically about the translation's validity. Whether or not the statements itself are reliable is another story I'm not interested in.

Sera explicitaly said the translation was right, don't do false appeals

Yes there is, literaly every single translation uses star, there's no reason to assume otherwise just because some people don't think so

Statments are feats lol, there's nothing to argue here

This is becoming circular, unless anyone proves why their translation would be more correct than people actualy knoweledge on the series and their language then there's no reason to not use star nor the statment, no matter how much you repeat how many things can mean Hoshi

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

She told Cal off site that Hoshi means planet 90% of the time, but then said star might be fine later. I was there, so I can post a scan if needed. It was when she came here she decided to support star, but it was still an awkward U-turn and honestly contradicted herself on what she told us on Discord.

Statements are not feats, and the number of translations =/= the most accurate translation possible. The most accurate translation possible just says celestial body, not star specifically because that's what the word Hoshi literally means.

I also know people who live in Japan who think the star statement. Matt is also knowledgeable on the series as well as having some pretty good knowledge in some Japanese words or phrases. Also, she said it herself that she's not interested in the validity of the statement translating for a tier. Because even if the translation is accurate it doesn't make the statement accurate.

 

[ShakeResounding]

It doesn't matter what Sera says off-site when she literally disagrees with you on the thread itself.

Phantasy Star and Zero Wing aren't Sonic. The difference here is that, as a few have ssaid repeatedly, everybody's translating this line into star.

 

[Theuser789]

Doesn't matter what she said off site, stop speaking on behalf of her when she straight up can say and has said herself in here

Yes, statments can be, multiple characters are rated via statments, and all accurate translation of people who know what hoshi can mean used star, just because it can mean many things doesn't mean it isn't star when everyone knoweledble on the series used star

Post prove of those people, and Matt is not on the same level of someone who translated multiple games, their in game dialogue and scripts and literaly lives there because he knows some japanese

Again, this is circular

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

She only said she disagreed with saying the translation is inaccurate, she said she was neutral on the specific statement and that she doesn't really care. They're both still games made by Sega, which debunks the idea that "Sega of America is actually pretty competent" as the reason for it. We have never accepted Hoshi busting/piercing as meaning star busting/piercing for any other verse unless actually demonstrated, Sonic would literally be the only one if we made that exception.

Matt still knows full well what Hoshi means, which is more than enough. Also, our job is to make sure what context meets the balance of our system, which the "Piercing the celestial bodies" statement does not hold up.

 

[Mephistus]

Black Doom is a credible person for the statement; credible and uncontradicted statements are used all the time on this site if feats are not adaquate for a correct higher tiering than what feats would give.

Just because the story didn't give way to a situation where a star was threatened, doesn't mean that the statement doesn't hold up. We don't have a cap on the cannon's power, so there isn't a reason to disbeleive the statement.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The difference is that a lot of those statements actually had numerous back ups and the fact and/or the story actually has shown some of those other things being in jeopardy. The statement has about as much reliability as "Temari blowing away the Universe". Also, there has legit been a statement of "I'm going to pierce the Hoshi" When clearly aiming it at Earth indicates it not meaning star.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Yet Black Doom's statement is backed up by the fact that he had worked with Gerald Robotnik on the Space Colony ARK, so he 100% knows what the Eclipse Cannon is capable of. He has no reason to lie or exaggerate the situation.

 

[Theuser789]

Stop making false analogies, just because other series didn't get that doesn't that Sonic is wrong, this makes you look biased because your favorite series

Unless anyone here can prove why translations made by Wiindii and multiple knoweledge people even in this thread itself are inacurate then this argument is going nowhere

And don't move the goalpost, this thread was about the statment being translated right, not using it for scaling yet

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And yet we don't actually seem him pierce a single star. Speaking of which, even "piercing a star" isn't even specific enough. For all we know, all it means is just slightly piercing a star. Imagine I had a Giant drill and made a building sized creator, I technically did pierce the Earth, just not very much of it. It shouldn't be assumed he pierced all the way through it, or how wide the hole is.

Also, don't be hypocrites and use, "You're biased" as an argument. The verses I like more or less has nothing regarding which feats/statements are accurate or have legitimacy. And the goal post was the legitimacy of the feat/statement regardless of translation. Has nothing to do with the scaling as other feats can be used.

 

[Theuser789]

Stop moving the goal post, this thread was about the translation being accurate, not scaling

We don't """see""" because the Eclipse Cannon only fired with all at the Comet, and Occam's razor goes against all of your assumptions

Except you were using that because it isn't valid in your verse then it isn't valid here when the context is completely diferent, thus looking biased

Yes, the legit of the translation was the object, that's on the title of the thread and everything, not the feat validity.

 

[Mephistus]

The fact that going through something means that it has to fit through it?

The same giant drill would have to fit through a hole width if it went clean through the earth and you dug down.

The beam has to fit through to dig through a star.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Also, that's a strawman. A lot of examples I use aren't even "My verse". But rather, consistency on the word "Hoshi", the credibility on Sega of America, and the validity of the statement regardless of translations. They're not assumptions, they're scientific facts. It's the arguments used against me that are the real "Assumptions".

 

[Sera_EX]

I'm getting pretty tired of this whole "Sera said this off-site but said this on-site" babble that's been going on since the 2-B thread.

My point is:

You will never see a legitimate JP to ENG translated sentence that says "The Earth is a star". Bad translations like FGO's infamous "the planet is now a desolate star" are fan translations.

I realize now that Matt didn't mean that the Earth is literally a star so I apologize for nitpicking and derailing, but I still stand by the possibility that this is likely a Tier 4 statement. I don't care if it's legit or not. One thing you aren't gonna do is say a translation is completely different because of feats and other vs debating bullshit would contradict it. That's just not gonna fly with me. The translation can be legit even if the statement implies an outlier.

 

[Theuser789]

Your only example was FF which is a verse you like, I said you looked biased doing that, when the entire arguments is analogies

Hoshi is consistanly star, I already explained multiple times that the statment was valid for various reasons you haven't adreesed

Occam's razor would still imply those """facts""" are wrong

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm only a fan of the first 7 Final Fantasy games, I don't actually like FF XV all that much, so that was a false assumption. It's not even one of my favorite verses either. Hoshi also means planet more often than star. Someone also brought up Sailor Moon as an example, where even humans called planet Earth a Hoshi. That's another strong example of Hoshi's inconsistency. It doesn't change the fact that Hoshi just means celestial body in general regardless of what English localization or fan translations say.

I also agree with Sera about using her name back and forth and apologize for that. But still, planet makes far more sense then star here.

 

[Mephistus]

Sega shouldn't be defaultly assumed to incorrectly translate the word over to begin with.

This is literally going in circles and restated arguements.

And pulling the unreliable statement card when its in universe narrative and not a naruto guidebook....really?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Sera herself admitted that Hoshi means planet 90% of the time as Cal mentioned above. And what it specifically means is "Celestial body". The point wasn't "The feat happened off screen" the fact was there feat doesn't even exist to begin with. Penetrating Hoshi could be referring to Mars, the moon, Jupiter, Saturn, or even Pluto. While it can mean star, it doesn't mean star by default. Sekai means world which can mean universe, but it doesn't mean universe by default and assuming Hoshi means star by default is no different.

Also, that's a strawman. A lot of examples I use aren't even "My verse". But rather, consistency on the word "Hoshi", the credibility on Sega of America, and the validity of the statement regardless of translations. They're not assumptions, they're scientific facts. It's the arguments used against me that are the real "Assumptions".

DDM, you were strawmanning yourself when you said they were assuming hoshi meant star by default when that clearly wasn't what they were saying.

 

[Sera_EX]

Here's the deal breaker:

If Black Doom was referring to the Earth itself, hoshi means "planet". If he was referring to something plural, hoshi means "many planets/stars". Context is more important than the meaning of the word.

 

[Theuser789]

We already discussed on hoshi meaning many things doesn't mean it isn't star and explained why it isn't

If a official translation and multiple knoweledge people say it's star, that goes above your interpretation, unless you can prove why your interpretation is more correct than people who know the language and the game itself then it means nothing

This is going in circles, you explain hoshi means many things, I explain why it's star, you repeat the first, I repeat myself ad infinutum

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Sera given that the Space Colony Ark is located at the Earth's orbit, the primary purpose is to be used as a defense weapon against those who invade Earth, and Black Doom's Goal was to use it to conquer the world, and figuratively save humanity by literally destroying them. Which he destroys them by eating them alive;which is what he means by energy source is food. It sounds like Earth would be the closest link/reference to what Black Doom is using it for. Same with Shadow in one of the Dark Ending says "I'm going to destroy this damn planet!" Which Gerald then tells Shadow it is the only thing that can destroy the black comet. And that's another thing, Hoshi doesn't really have an extra s to really indicate if it's plural or not making it difficult to give a full context.

Also, it's a massive stretch to assume it can pierce multiple stars at once if it's never been shown to do anything remotely close to that. And even piercing the sun from the Earth would imply other things that might make the feat more outlierish. I still stand that Piercing the Earth is the most reliable context.

I also need to go to work soon, so I will be inactive for 9 hours.

 

[Theuser789]

Increlible, everything you said was wrong( Star Wars reference), the Eclipse Cannon was made to destroy the Black Comett who literaly flys all over the Earth and the universe, and I literaly explained countless times that Black Doom didn't want to destroy the Earth, he wanted to keep humanity alive as a energy sources, he straight up teleports his home to the planet to consume humans, he was talking about how strong the cannon is, It literaly doesn't matter what he was going to do if he was talking about how strong the cannon is

You saying it's a streach doesn't make it one when people who translate dozens of games in Japan used star, and it's not a outlier if the cannon never fired at 7 emeralds, I am literaly repeating myself here, if one single emerald boosted the cannon from 6-B to 5-B with warning shots than the sheer non linear expotencial increase would make this not a outlier. People who live and translate things for a living>>>>>your interpretation

 

[Mephistus]

And that's another thing, Hoshi doesn't really have an extra s to really indicate if it's plural or not making it difficult to give a full context.

It being in plural form should if anything be that it was clarified in the translation as plural and not grossly overlooked by the official english translators working on the game who should have access to any additional context.