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Honkai: Star Rail Discussion Thread

Genuine question, where are the profiles for honkai star rail?

Like are we still trying to find out their tiers or...
 
Solacis said:
The same Kevin who was stalemated by BKE Durandal.
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He wasn't stalemated by BKE Durandal though? Otto literally intervened before Kevin was able to get serious, but yeah while I don't believe Ryusuke is 1-C I have to admit your examples with chain scaling has some holes in it
 
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Emirp sumitpo said:
We already have several Tier 6 feats for HI3 that I compiled in the other thread.

Extra note, I think I remember Herrscher of the End had like some statements of being able to destroy Earth? But I don't remember where.

For Star Rail, of the top off my head and excluding the Aeons, most notable feats we have are:
  • The cast being able to fight Cocolia's giant mech - Just based off it's sheer size, this one is easy Tier 7
  • Dan Feng parting the seas - Likely somewhere in Tier 7
  • Cocolia having the power of a Stellaron, which froze Jarilo's surface - I'm not sure if Cocolia fully scales to the Stellaron itself, but if she does, this is easy High 6-A
  • The Doomsday Beast having a world destroying statement iirc? - 5-B
  • Dan heng defeating a monster that could swallow stars from Himeko's profile - 4-C
  • Phantylia's High 4-C feat - High 4-C
  • Apparently Argenti defeat some monster who was swallowing stars or something? - I haven't finished the quest so idk the full context, and iirc, he was gonna sacrifice himself to do it, if it is true, then it's probably High 4-C to 4-A.
Click to expand...
This should be enough feats for profiles, right?

Now what about speed feats?
 
AlipheeseXIV said:
He wasn't stalemated by BKE Durandal though? Otto literally intervened before Kevin was able to get serious, but yeah while I don't believe Ryusuke is 1-C I have to admit your examples with chain scaling has some holes in it
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As far as we saw, Durandal was portrayed as having stalemated Kevin via Rita's account claiming they appeared evenly matched. While we can infer Kevin was not yet serious, it's not confirmed nor is it supported by evidence.

We also know that, stalemate or not, Welt cannot be infinitely stronger than his Second Eruption self without also claiming that he, and everyone that scales remotely close to or above him, is infinitely stronger than Six-Core Sirin. The scaling chain was just a way of emphasising how stupid that idea is. It's just one of the MANY things wrong with said assertion.
 
Solacis said:
As in, the only monsters that were said to swallow stars were the ones Dan heng oneshot in Himeko's story. The Giant True Sting in Argenti's quest wasn't said to do that afaik.
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It's doesn't really need scale from instantly one shot, as long he can harm even kill the sting it's should be scale. Also tbh, i am pretty sure this big sting bug ain't no way stronger than actual Skaracabaz the tazzyronth emanator.

I am roughly calc this giant sting gpe get result multi galaxy
 
Solacis said:
In the first place, Ryusuke's statement has always been purely metaphorical. The only reason it was treated as literal was because of wiki members enforcing wiki logic onto a non-wiki entity. Like Ultima mentioned in the thread, you can't map R>F to dimensions because all dimensionalities are equally "real" in an ontological sense. Any so-called "fictional" being interacting in any way with a so-called "real" being would immediately invalidate the feat in that context.
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I am about to probably leave forever, so I want to remove a burden that is annoying me. Stop acting like what you think is the absolute truth and the only real interpretation of anything.
Ryusuke's statement being metaporical is your own interpretation and nothing more. Which is fair, but it's also not the absolute truth considering that the statement is pretty straight forward to literally anyone else that have actually read the comic in the first place.
And the fact that you continously says that Welt defeating Ryusuke is an anti-feat is also a pretty clear indication that you understand very little of the Tier 1 standards. It's explained as clear as day that he defeated him be manipulatibg the higher dimension in which he resided, creating a Singularity that affected the dimension itself. He defeated him with Tier 1 hax, which is a extremely common thing that happens in fiction.
And lastly, the new R>F possible standard actually makes the rating even more solid, considering what Ultima said in previous pages about the standards, considering that Ryusuke tells clearly that Welt cannot interact with him because he is the "reader", and Welt later interacts with him by altering the higher dimension, not by physically punching him or anything.
Your interpretation is just as valid as the interpretation of anyone else, stop acting like only yours is the one that matters, it comes off as extremely arrogant and nothing more. Have you ever wandered why no one else want to be involved with Honkai Impact 3rd in this wiki, despite everyone voicing the fact that the verse is in horrible conditions? Make the question and give yourself the answer. I hope that the overhaul that Shiroiyo is working on will actually make the verse better, because damn it needs it. Goodbye.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I'll summarise speed later, but generally I feel it's... Not great?
Click to expand...
Ok let's do this:

  • Phantylia summons a star - Easily Massively FTL+, especially since it seems she summons the star via pulling it. But would mainly be attack speed, where that would scale to her combat speed is debatable
  • Welt Yang scaling - Depending on whether HI3 Welt is valid for scaling, the cast could probably scale to his Relativistic rating. While it's debatable if Welt decreased in power, I'm not sure if that applies for his speed.
  • Seele's bullet blitzing - Already calced at Sub-Relativistic, problem is that during said feat, Seels completely statues Bronya during this, so it's kinda iffy to scale everyone else to this, especially when Seele is treated like a speedster. But it's not like characters are treated massively slower than her, so an "At most Sub-Relativistic" rating could work.
  • Himeko's Ultimate - Definitely within the Massively Hypersonic+ ranges, especially with how quickly the beam moves from orbit. But unfortunately, this one is only attack speed and there's no evidence Himeko would scale to this in combat speed.
  • Anyone with lightning attacks - Anyone with lightning attacks would easily gain Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed, but I don't recall when anyone has actually dodged these attacks. If anyone could hard evidence of these characters dodging lightning, then that'd be great.
  • Bronya bullet dodging - Bronya can briefly dodge a bullet, which would be like Supersonic or so

So in conclusion, there are three ways to go about this:

  • Option 1: Characters get Supersonic combat speed and Himeko plus characters with lightning attacks get Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed.
  • Option 2: Characters should downscale from Seele's Sub-Relativistic rating, making them "At most Sub-Relativistic"
  • Option 3: Characters scale to Relativistic via Yang

Out of these, I think Option 2 is the worst one. Seele consistently blitzes everyone else, but despite that, it's not like everyone else is massively slower than her either, but then again, no one has solid evidence of full on scaling to her.

It makes it worse than Jarilo arc level characters are shown to fight with bullets, and Bronya has difficulty dodging bullets, and Seele's speed rating comes directly from blitzing one of these bullets. Scaling to Seele causes a huge circular scaling chain.

TL;DR we should go with option 1 or 3, I think no one should scale Seele in speed.
 
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I'm in favour of either option 1 or a sort of merge betwen options 1 and 3, where the Jarilo cast scales to supersonic while the cast in Loufu where they are stronger would scale to Relativistic Welt
 
Why we just not scales the characters from Jarilo-VI Arc like this: At least Supersonic, likely Sub-Relativistic?

I mean, they weren't that much slower than Seele anyway, they could still fight Svarog, Gepard, Human Cocolia's Echo (which is pretty much a perfect copy of the real Cocolia) and Stellaron Empowered Cocolia, who in turn could keep up with Seele and gave trouble to her
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Why we just not scales the characters from Jarilo-VI Arc like this: At least Supersonic, likely Sub-Relativistic?

I mean, they weren't that much slower than Seele, they could still fight Svarog, Human Cocolia's Echo (which is pretty much a perfect copy of the real Cocolia) and Stellaron Empowered Cocolia, who in turn could keep up with Seele
Click to expand...
But niether of them could has shown hard scaling to Seele in speed afaik.

I feel maybe "Supersonic, likely far higher" is more suitable.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Why we just not scales the characters from Jarilo-VI Arc like this: At least Supersonic, likely Sub-Relativistic?

I mean, they weren't that much slower than Seele anyway, they could still fight Svarog, Gepard, Human Cocolia's Echo (which is pretty much a perfect copy of the real Cocolia) and Stellaron Empowered Cocolia, who in turn could keep up with Seele and gave trouble to her
Click to expand...
Well the problem is that in the Sub-Rel feat that we try to scale them too it wasn't just the bullet that got statued but also Bronya. Kinda hard to scale to someone that completely blitzed you
 
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Emirp sumitpo said:
But niether of them could has shown hard scaling to Seele in speed afaik.

I feel maybe "Supersonic, likely far higher" is more suitable.
Click to expand...
I mean, in the story and lore Seele being hundreds/thousands of times faster than everyone else doesn't make sense, Seele was aware and not confident in dealing with Svarog alone and had the team up with other characters to beat him, and during the fights against Gepard, Human Cocolia's Echo and Stellaron Empowered Cocolia, the fate of her home planet the towns the she protects were at the stake since everyone would die in Jarilo-VI if Cocolia succeeded on her plan and she hasn't any reason to wait everyone else if she was that much faster than the enemies and if they were that much slower than her, she could pretty much blitzed them and use her speed on favor since the gap in power wasn't that big, and by what you guys are proposing, everyone else on the planet besides Seele are hundreds/thousands of times slower than her, which doesn't make sense considering what I said above
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Seele was aware and not confident in dealing with Svarog alone and had the team up with other characters, and during the fight against Gepard, Human Cocolia's Echo and Stellaron Empowered Cocolia
Click to expand...
I mean you could argue it could be an AP issue.

Not only that, but all of the actual on screen feats say otherwise, Seele outright blitzes everyone to a point where pretty much no one has been shown to actually keep up with her. Especially the Bronya case above, where Seele is able to blitz a bullet so quickly that we can't even see her, and said bullet was moving at similar speeds to Bronya.
 
Unironic answer: Sure it's a pretty massive gap but she is clearly potrayed as blitz levels above everyone else to the point were i don't think there's any arguament for downscaling
 
Personally I don't believe and I think it is ridiculous, but I really doubt I could win the argument here since everyone else believes in that so I will gave up discussing on this matter 🤷‍♂️
 
Solacis said:
As far as we saw, Durandal was portrayed as having stalemated Kevin via Rita's account claiming they appeared evenly matched. While we can infer Kevin was not yet serious, it's not confirmed nor is it supported by evidence.

We also know that, stalemate or not, Welt cannot be infinitely stronger than his Second Eruption self without also claiming that he, and everyone that scales remotely close to or above him, is infinitely stronger than Six-Core Sirin. The scaling chain was just a way of emphasising how stupid that idea is. It's just one of the MANY things wrong with said assertion.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say Rita who at that point doesn't even scale to a nerfed Kiana who had partial control of her void powers from ch 14 is the most reliable way of interpreting Durandal being "evenly" matched with Kevin not to mention there is a way to support Kevin heavily holding back, Durandal struggles against a 1% chibi Kevin even assuming she had years to train and grow stronger this is relatively concrete as it was in her BKE key so it couldn't of been that long. Not to mention in the second key manga she's inferior to Su before getting Dea Anchora I don't think I need to explain any further but for those who haven't read the manga Kevin deals with Su extremely easily while Su has literal years worth of prep and multiple divine keys at his disposal, he does this in base and doesn't even use AHR he pretty much neg diffs him and in the end chooses to let himself be trapped in the SoQ because he realizes how messed up project stigma is and gives Su a chance so yeah not too sure about Durandal being evenly matched with Kevin.

Yes true, again like I said I'm not trying to wank anyone or say x character is infinitely more powerful than another.
 
ThanatosX said:
I am about to probably leave forever, so I want to remove a burden that is annoying me. Stop acting like what you think is the absolute truth and the only real interpretation of anything.
Ryusuke's statement being metaporical is your own interpretation and nothing more. Which is fair, but it's also not the absolute truth considering that the statement is pretty straight forward to literally anyone else that have actually read the comic in the first place.
And the fact that you continously says that Welt defeating Ryusuke is an anti-feat is also a pretty clear indication that you understand very little of the Tier 1 standards. It's explained as clear as day that he defeated him be manipulatibg the higher dimension in which he resided, creating a Singularity that affected the dimension itself. He defeated him with Tier 1 hax, which is a extremely common thing that happens in fiction.
And lastly, the new R>F possible standard actually makes the rating even more solid, considering what Ultima said in previous pages about the standards, considering that Ryusuke tells clearly that Welt cannot interact with him because he is the "reader", and Welt later interacts with him by altering the higher dimension, not by physically punching him or anything.
Your interpretation is just as valid as the interpretation of anyone else, stop acting like only yours is the one that matters, it comes off as extremely arrogant and nothing more. Have you ever wandered why no one else want to be involved with Honkai Impact 3rd in this wiki, despite everyone voicing the fact that the verse is in horrible conditions? Make the question and give yourself the answer. I hope that the overhaul that Shiroiyo is working on will actually make the verse better, because damn it needs it. Goodbye.
Click to expand...
Damn..... was nice knowing you man, albeit kinda short ngl tho true 💀
 
Didi you guys watched the new Myriad Celestia's trailer? Out of all characters from the Ever-Flame Mansion, the one I am most interested in is Caterina, just because my tastes are peculiar and she seems to be the the expy of Niggurath
 
ThanatosX said:
I am about to probably leave forever, so I want to remove a burden that is annoying me. Stop acting like what you think is the absolute truth and the only real interpretation of anything.
Ryusuke's statement being metaporical is your own interpretation and nothing more. Which is fair, but it's also not the absolute truth considering that the statement is pretty straight forward to literally anyone else that have actually read the comic in the first place.
And the fact that you continously says that Welt defeating Ryusuke is an anti-feat is also a pretty clear indication that you understand very little of the Tier 1 standards. It's explained as clear as day that he defeated him be manipulatibg the higher dimension in which he resided, creating a Singularity that affected the dimension itself. He defeated him with Tier 1 hax, which is a extremely common thing that happens in fiction.
Click to expand...
The actual defeat of Ryusuke has never been part of my argument. IF Ryusuke were considered a valid HDE, then I would easily accept that Star of Eden has tier 1 hax. If you look back at my past arguments about Tier 1, I've never disputed the existence of smurf hax in Honkai, only the validity of the tiering itself on a case-by-case basis.

I don't pretend to know better, or that my interpretation is the best. If I did that, I would still be stuck on Honkai being Tier 6 at the absolute highest. It was other people who convinced me of Tier 4 and higher, so I don't see why you pin this on me.

ThanatosX said:
And lastly, the new R>F possible standard actually makes the rating even more solid, considering what Ultima said in previous pages about the standards, considering that Ryusuke tells clearly that Welt cannot interact with him because he is the "reader", and Welt later interacts with him by altering the higher dimension, not by physically punching him or anything.
Click to expand...
The main rationale of the new R>F standard was that ANY interaction between fictional entities and real entities should be impossible, and cannot be equated to dimensional superiority. No matter how many dimensions you put in between, the higher dimensional entity can never truly consider the lower entity as "fictional" in the actual sense of the word. That is why I believe that Ryusuke's statement was metaphorical. That's because IF Ryusuke's statement were literal, then Welt would never have been able to defeat him even if he became infinite-dimensional; because no amount of additional dimensions can turn a fictional entity into a real one.

ThanatosX said:
Your interpretation is just as valid as the interpretation of anyone else, stop acting like only yours is the one that matters, it comes off as extremely arrogant and nothing more. Have you ever wandered why no one else want to be involved with Honkai Impact 3rd in this wiki, despite everyone voicing the fact that the verse is in horrible conditions? Make the question and give yourself the answer. I hope that the overhaul that Shiroiyo is working on will actually make the verse better, because damn it needs it. Goodbye.
Click to expand...
And I never said otherwise. I've never asked for anything more or less than proper arguments to the contrary. When people provide scans and explain the thought process for their interpretation, I can agree. It's only when people don't want to bother explaining their points, or when their points don't hold up to scrutiny, that I disagree with them.

You can ask everyone that's ever debated with me on this site, since even before the forum move. I accept when others have more solid interpretations than my own, and change accordingly. Even in the most recent case, did you not see me ultimately agree with those who disagreed with my latest CRT on Honkai?

I've always appreciated your input, and even moreso your desire to participate in supporting this verse where most others were all talk. If you find it too taxing to continue debating, believe me, I understand because I'm pseudo-retired myself. I've been there and have nothing against you even now. I just hope this reply clears things up before you leave.
 
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