Honkai Speed Revision

[GarrixianXD]

Overview

First, we have the Imaginary Tree, but specifically, its time axis, in which its time is no different from moving through spatial dimensions. Our official FAQ says states a character can qualify for Immeasurable speed if “the regular dimension of time appears like a spatial dimension from their higher dimensional perspective. That is to say, that it can freely be traversed both forward and backwards”.

The Imaginary Tree is also higher-dimensional and can freely move on it, not only backwards, but also forward with no restrictions. We are also told that time travel does not happen due to the laws of physics, which from the description given to us should qualify for immeasurable speed. The Imaginary Tree has been accepted as uncountable infinite 11-D previously which applies the High 1-C ratings to character pages.

Still in the Imaginary Tree, but more specifically in the Imaginary Space, Durandal was able to move in one of these spaces, and she noted that her movements were not being governed by the laws of physics and that time meant something very different there. Imaginary Space makes up Project Stigma, with the latter having a very straightforward statement that time is nonlinear to it. So… both qualify.

Scaling

Aeons are already accepted as having immeasurable speed, but their justifications should get more elaboration with the arguments above.

Here is an example:

IX (Honkai: Star Rail)

IX the Aeon that presides over the path of Nihility. Their existence is a mystery. IX doesn't interact with the other Aeons. They believe that the ultimate fate of the multiverse is nothingness, and therefore, worthless. Tier: High 1-C Name: IX, All-Consuming Black Hole, Dark Sun, Black Great...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Bronya HoTr has already accepted scaling to Project Stigma with these scans. Full scaling (?) she would scale from the last trio fight anyway.
Kiana HoFin/Cocoon of Finality scales as the reason why Project Stigma has its temporal attribute is because of Finality’s authority. They are also accepted as being the abstract concept of time on the website. Full scaling.

Since higher dimensions can qualify if they meet the criteria, Herrschers’ attack speed might scale because they can manipulate time on the Imaginary Tree using their higher-d hax, their powers are also stated to not be governed by the law of physics, and this power comes from the Imaginary Space itself.
Sirin’s attacks are done through the Imaginary Space itself, so her attack speed scales, some people will also get attack/reactions for not getting blitzed by them or scaling higher than her.

Anyways, credits to @Shiroiyo for the CRT

 

[ThanatosX]

The upgrade is pretty solid and straight forward, especially given that Honkai Star Rail's character already scale to Immeasurable speed for reasons that are not too different. I agree with the revision.

 

[Vietthai96]

Gonna say something later

 

[Woomica]

looks okay im agree

 

[Shiroiyo]

I helped with this so I agree.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Kubo423]

didn't expect it would look this good. YATTA!

 

[GarrixianXD]

Gonna say something later

 

[GarrixianXD]

@Catzlaflame @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 Pls give input

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I love, simple and to the point CRTs. Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything unless anyone knowledgable about the verse has any arguments.

 

[Catzlaflame]

Okay so, my thing is, this scan:

its time is no different from moving through spatial dimensions.

Makes it sound like the nature of the tree itself allows anyone to move back forth through time.

“There one can travel backward and forward through time freely”

“To someone experiencing a single reality — they can choose they’re own future”

Like my point is does: X character/thing move so fast that they can transverse time in Y plane, or is it that Y plane makes it so that X character can move through its temporal dimension.

And I get that the tree is higher dimensional, but is the movement a consequence of it being higher dimensional, or is would anyone else who isn’t otherwise a HDE be able to pull it off?

We are also told that time travel does not happen due to the laws of physics

And like with this, my thing is, this is a question, no? She’s asking “How is this possible, when time travel isnt allowed in the universe ?”

Like for example, hypothetically, if I had a scan that said “How is that possible, fire manipulation isn’t possible in this universe” it kinda implies that it isn’t meant to occur, but it did, because the person is asking how it even occurred when it shouldn’t, yk?

 

[NaruRiasUzumaki]

I agree with OP'S stated.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Okay so, my thing is, this scan:

Makes it sound like the nature of the tree itself allows anyone to move back forth through time.

“There one can travel backward and forward through time freely”

“To someone experiencing a single reality — they can choose they’re own future”

Like my point is does: X character/thing move so fast that they can transverse time in Y plane, or is it that Y plane makes it so that X character can move through its temporal dimension.

And I get that the tree is higher dimensional, but is the movement a consequence of it being higher dimensional, or is would anyone else who isn’t otherwise a HDE be able to pull it off?

I mean, time is considered an exception when it comes to moving in higher dimensions, which does indeed guarantee Immeasurable speed when moving through it like a spatial axis. An ordinary person cannot travel through the Imaginary Tree; only certain characters who are shown or capable of being able to traverse through the dimension can move back through time, so not anyone can do that. Of course, X character/thing will have to traverse through time in Y-plane, because not everyone can reach Y-plane. Like, a normal human would just freeze and be instantly torn into oblivion if they weren't able to resist the Imaginary energy of the Imaginary Tree. A real-life example would be something like black holes a human can't reach a singularity you know (not only a human is not powerful enough but the laws of physics also defy it and yeah I suck at giving examples sorry.

Btw, feel free to check one of the speed justifications for the Aeons, especially Terminus.

And like with this, my thing is, this is a question, no? She’s asking “How is this possible, when time travel isnt allowed in the universe ?”

Like for example, hypothetically, if I had a scan that said “How is that possible, fire manipulation isn’t possible in this universe” it kinda implies that it isn’t meant to occur, but it did, because the person is asking how it even occurred when it shouldn’t, yk?

Yeah, because the laws of physics defy time travel as it violate the second law of thermodynamics, which shocked Theresa. It only applies to the main universe, though Hi3 characters break the laws of physics anyway, but it is said Time Travel is viable in the Imaginary Tree. I'd admit, it isn't a really strong supporting evidence and I can remove it if necessary.

 

[Catzlaflame]

An ordinary person cannot travel through the Imaginary Tree; only certain characters who are shown or capable of being able to traverse through the dimension can move back through time, so not anyone can do that.

So can the ordinary people not travel through the imaginary tree because they’re not fast enough? Or cus of another reason?

Like the question at the end of the day is, the character/thing that’s pulling this off, are they literally moving so fast that they move through time, or does the nature of the tree just allow time to be “movable through”

Anyway, I won’t outright disagree, but ig you can put me down as neutral.

 

[GarrixianXD]

So can the ordinary people not travel through the imaginary tree because they’re not fast enough? Or cus of another reason?

Not fast enough + not able to resist imaginary energy + no honkai powers + mere mortal beings like you get the idea

Like the question at the end of the day is, the character/thing that’s pulling this off, are they literally moving so fast that they move through time, or does the nature of the tree just allow time to be “movable through”

Judging by Terminus’s feat, he did move backwards in time without any other statements that his movements are supported by the tree or anything, so it most likely is the movement of the character. Tho, judging by the gallery, it does seems like continuity of the screenshots are missing, which makes it sound like it’s rather talking about the tree has an accessible time-axis. However, it seems like Tesla was talking about some sort of power or method of traversing through the time-axis, not necessarily the Tree making a spatially accessible path for time.

@Shiroiyo Do you have the full dialogue for the gallery in the first scan?

Anyway, I won’t outright disagree, but ig you can put me down as neutral.

Aye

 

[GarrixianXD]

Okay, Shiroiyo linked me the full dialogue.



Scroll to timestamp 1:33:30 (mobile youtube ******* sucks lmao)

Nagamitsu stated that through activating the Divine Key and linking bubble universes to the Imaginary Tree, one can traverse freely in-time like a spatial dimension. It’s not stating that the Imaginary Tree has properties that allows characters to traverse through time as a spatial dimension. @Catzlaflame does this make sense?

 

[SchroKatze]

So, basically all "high-end" Herrschers and Emanators get this upgrade?

 

[GarrixianXD]

So, basically all "high-end" Herrschers and Emanators get this upgrade?

Mid-end Herrschers.

 

[SchroKatze]

I see. Ok then, count my vote as agreeing with the CRT

 

[inkownn]

Nagamitsu stated that through activating the Divine Key and linking bubble universes to the Imaginary Tree, one can traverse freely in-time like a spatial dimension. It’s not stating that the Imaginary Tree has properties that allows characters to traverse through time as a spatial dimension. @Catzlaflame does this make sense?

I don’t believe that the line,

“Through activating the second Divine key and linking the bubble universe to the imaginary tree we determined that [time behaves differently]. To be more specific there one can travel backwards in time freely”

Implies that the key is what allows the user to move backwards in time. It is saying the using the divine key has allowed them to determine that time behaves differently within the imaginary tree. Elaborating that this means when moving in the imaginary tree one can also move through time just as one moves through space.

This is reinforced by the fact that this divine key allows one to observe other universes. As Catzla said, this just means that when moving through the tree one also has the ability to move through time.

To answer the question about, “Who can walk in the imaginary tree?” It isn’t a question about how strong or fast you are. You just have to be fused with extra dimensions in some sense.

Also I believe the prospect of immeasurable speed is just ridiculous. Here is Durandal in the final arc stating that she’d need 48 hours to move between the earth and the moon. You can’t mark this up to just travel speed as the argument at hand here implies that the character would be able to “traverse” and “travel” through time, meaning it refers to travel speed.

On top of that Kiana, the god tier of the verse, wielded an unimaginable superluminal bullet that took about 6 minutes and 37 seconds to travel 4500 AU. Kiana not even being sure she could do it. That is most certainly not immeasurable speed and is her attack speed.


Overall immeasurable speed is not only not consistent, but the evidence used here does not properly convey the conclusion that is trying to be drawn as it only states that people in the imaginary tree move through time because of the imaginary tree’s irregular time.

 

[ThanatosX]

I don't want to waste too much time debating this, but I will just note a couple of things.

On top of that Kiana, the god tier of the verse, wielded an unimaginable superluminal bullet that took about 6 minutes and 37 seconds to travel 4500 AU. Kiana not even being sure she could do it. That is most certainly not immeasurable speed and is her attack speed.

This feat was already brought up in a previous CRT and rejected because of a lack of context of the feat. There is not enough evidence to claim that's what happened based on the scans that are provided by either the calc or your comment. And in your second scan Kiana is not doubious if she can so it or not, but rather surprised that such request is even made in the first place, with her asking if she is supposed to shot the laser in 13 minutes.

Second, travelling within the Imaginary Tree is already accepted as Immeasurable speed, as seen within the Aeons' profiles:

"Speed: Immeasurable (Aeons can physically traverse to the realm of the Imaginary Tree[16] which doesn't exist in any dimensions[21] and houses the Sea of Quanta where time and space have no meaning. Comparable to Terminus, who can move backwards in time[6])"

It's important to note that Terminus moving backwards in time is barely a supporting feat, since without context that is just Time Travel, otherwise characters like Saitama would have Immeasurable speed too since they are able to also move backwards in time. The Tree not existing in any dimension and containing the Sea of Quanta, where space and time have no meaning, are the main basis for that rating, which is, once again, already accepted.

 

[inkownn]

Oh if traversing was already accepted why did they give all this faulty reasoning to support? Whatever I guess.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I don’t believe that the line,

“Through activating the second Divine key and linking the bubble universe to the imaginary tree we determined that [time behaves differently]. To be more specific there one can travel backwards in time freely”

Implies that the key is what allows the user to move backwards in time. It is saying the using the divine key has allowed them to determine that time behaves differently within the imaginary tree. Elaborating that this means when moving in the imaginary tree one can also move through time just as one moves through space.

Yes, it does. However, nothing implies that it’s a property of the Imaginary Tree that time works like a spatial axis there. It didn’t explicitly mention that time works differently in the Imaginary Tree anyways.

This is reinforced by the fact that this divine key allows one to observe other universes. As Catzla said, this just means that when moving through the tree one also has the ability to move through time.

Nothing implies that is the only ability of the Divine Key. Moving through the tree = moving through time as a spatial axis = immeasurable speed, there ya go.

To answer the question about, “Who can walk in the imaginary tree?” It isn’t a question about how strong or fast you are. You just have to be fused with extra dimensions in some sense.

Which, indeed, does not apply to mortals and again says nothing about the Imaginary Tree having an accessible temporal axis as a property of itself.

Also I believe the prospect of immeasurable speed is just ridiculous. Here is Durandal in the final arc stating that she’d need 48 hours to move between the earth and the moon. You can’t mark this up to just travel speed as the argument at hand here implies that the character would be able to “traverse” and “travel” through time, meaning it refers to travel speed.

Don’t see your blue link here. Nonetheless, this is just a PIS since we saw characters being significantly faster and demonstrating far better feats than simply needing 48 hours to travel between Earth and Moon.

On top of that Kiana, the god tier of the verse, wielded an unimaginable superluminal bullet that took about 6 minutes and 37 seconds to travel 4500 AU. Kiana not even being sure she could do it. That is most certainly not immeasurable speed and is her attack speed.

Again, PIS. Kiana was literally stated to be God that extra-dimensionally transcends over everything, yet, cannot aim a bullet 4500 AU away.

 

[Vietthai96]

Second, travelling within the Imaginary Tree is already accepted as Immeasurable speed, as seen within the Aeons' profiles:

"Speed: Immeasurable (Aeons can physically traverse to the realm of the Imaginary Tree[16] which doesn't exist in any dimensions[21] and houses the Sea of Quanta where time and space have no meaning. Comparable to Terminus, who can move backwards in time[6])"

I actually have problem with this, physically travel to other or higher realm isn't immesurable speed, and the realm nature mean nothing, similar to how moving in a void devoid of time and space isn't immeasurable anymore

And scan for Terminus is pratically out of context, travel backward in time in what way, there are hax allow for time travel, not neccessary physical movement

Anyway, go back to work now, i'm too busy nowaday

 

[Woomica]

I love, simple and to the point CRTs. Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything unless anyone knowledgable about the verse has any arguments.

garri asked me if you still agree with crt so they can apply it soon

 

[GarrixianXD]

garri asked me if you still agree with crt so they can apply it soon

Till grace time is up you dumb piece of shit

 

[Woomica]

Till grace time is up you dumb piece of shit

 

[Eseseso]

Looks good.

Now make Honkai Energy either High 1-B and/or Low 1-A so I can make them fight Marvel

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I'd rather think this is simply a mechanic of the imaginary tree itself. Not truly moving through the time by sheer speed.

But I can't really sure since all of the verse that I support doesn't really have immeasurable speed case like this. They are quite blunt and easy to scale.

Joshua can block an attack from the future that physically cross the timeline, because he is a smurf.

Meng Hao literally fought through the river of time physically.

Su Zhou fight his enemies through past, present and future. Which he remarks that fight shorter than a single moment.

So yeah, I don't really sure. I think this as verse mechanic.