• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Honkai Impact upgrade to High 1-B

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Qaw here. I actually don't even think Low 1-C is acceptable - there are only ever four large dimensions noted, and I strongly doubt that the guy in that one scan who is talking about the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one is fighting someone who operates on a 4-D scale.
 
So would somebody be willing to adjust the current statistics in the page according to your conclusions here?
 
Because with GL they are all referred to as brands. In your case there's no direct evidence for it. Reality can be 4D, have brane layers, and have seven string dimensions. Which would be an above average 2-A multiverse, but still ultimately 2-A.
How? For GL, I've seen just only mentioned about membranes, 10-11 dimensions space and nothing more left toward the significantly notion of layered higher dimension, not even higher plane of existence so, I see no difference here, and If we use the same standard of this site, I think it works.

Infinite lines as in the lines are infinitely long, not that theres an infinite amount of them.
I think you got no point about Hilbert space, Infinite lines(axes of dimension) perpendicular each other and made an infinite set of dimensions, not just infinite length of line.
The best takeaway I see from this is Low 1-C. But definently not High 1-C. I'm not seeing any hard confirmation for Geometric 11 diemsnions, rather than 4 dimensions + 7 string dimensions.
So could you just ignoring the part of statement about difference between lower and higher dimension? Being said higher dimension treat the lower as but fiction means nothing here? In addition, If you really have a look, It has been said that its dimensional model also implicated with geometric concepts such Riemann manifold, Euclidean space and even Hilbert space(Said many times).
 
For GL, I've seen just only mentioned about membranes, 10-11 dimensions space and nothing more left toward the significantly notion of layered higher dimension,
Lord Genome was rather direct and explicit with it. He calls it explicitly 10D and 11D brane layers. None of your stuff has the same level of directness, whic is why I'm not seeing them topping Low 1-C.



I think you got no point about Hilbert space, Infinite lines(axes of dimension) perpendicular each other and made an infinite set of dimensions, not just infinite length of line.
Your Hilbert quote doesn't mention his dimensions nor allude to them being what the franchise operates under. As for the lines, that's all I'm seeing. The axis are infinite in their respective dimension, not that there's an infinite amount of them.

So could you just ignoring the part of statement about difference between lower and higher dimension?
That statement is why I'm fine with a Low 1-C rating.


also implicated with geometric concepts such Riemann manifold, Euclidean space and even Hilbert space(Said many times).
The first two aren't evidence in of themselves for High 1-C, they are just solid supporting pieces of evidence to prove the dimensions are AP applicable. The issue is your 4 Dimenions + 7 String Dimensions quote. This means they're operating on string dimensions, which aren't applicable on this site anymore for Tier 1 ratings.

Hilbert Space would be solid of there was an indication of infinite dimensions or that it operated on Hilbert Space mathematics.
 
After all, To aru verse dimensions thing also based from M-Theory, but they also deals with a form of mathematical concept, So I think this one will do too.
 
The first two aren't evidence in of themselves for High 1-C, they are just solid supporting pieces of evidence to prove the dimensions are AP applicable. The issue is your 4 Dimenions + 7 String Dimensions quote. This means they're operating on string dimensions, which aren't applicable on this site anymore for Tier 1 ratings.
Nah, That moments, they are in the during of explanation about how those dimensions works, and also notified about manifold and Euclidean space concept for addition in that time, How those aren't applicable for AP then since they're talking in the same topic?
Hilbert Space would be solid of there was an indication of infinite dimensions or that it operated on Hilbert Space mathematics.
Yup, Hilbert space here is indeed mathematical concept as they are talking about geometry.
That statement is why I'm fine with a Low 1-C rating.
Low 1-C is for those that portray about 1 layered dimensional plane, But here are regard as more than that as I've told before.
Your Hilbert quote doesn't mention his dimensions nor allude to them being what the franchise operates under. As for the lines, that's all I'm seeing. The axis are infinite in their respective dimension, not that there's an infinite amount of them.
"Dimensions of space can be infinite" How does it not mention about Hilbert dimension?, Lines here are regarding as the axes of dimensions, and all of them perpendicular each other thus form infinite sets of dimension, That's why he said "Dimensions of space can be infinite".



Lord Genome was rather direct and explicit with it. He calls it explicitly 10D and 11D brane layers. None of your stuff has the same level of directness, whic is why I'm not seeing them topping Low 1-C.
I see no that much of more directness, GL told us that there are "an imaginary oscillating space-time that located between membranes", So yeah, Honkai also have membranes thing too, and a term of imaginary space-time has been used several times, "of the dimensional universe we call 10th and 11th dimensions", and this too, "Related to quantum universe theory", Quantum thingy are a big deal in Honkai verse, whether quantization, quantum fluctuation of the world bubbles or even Schrodinger's cat. From all of this, I can speak fully that there are no that much of directness difference.
 
Nah, That moments, they are in the during of explanation about how those dimensions works, and also notified about manifold and Euclidean space concept for addition in that time, How those aren't applicable for AP then since they're talking in the same topic?
Because neither of those things have a set dimensional hierarchy. They are just mathematics to explain how a dimension would function in certain ways. It's why they are only supporting evidence, since they rely on a direct dimensional number to get anywhere.

Yup, Hilbert space here is indeed mathematical concept as they are talking about geometry.
What you posted doesn't suggest that they operate under that system, just that Hilbert's theories are canon in-universe. Hilbert Space also isn't automatically High 1-B, since it can be any finite or infinite number, what it does is just allow a higher rating to be achieved easier. Though for fairness I will say a lot of franchises with confirmed Hilbert spaces are rated at High 1-B in sole capacity, but I'm not really seeing it here.
Low 1-C is for those that portray about 1 layered dimensional plane, But here are regard as more than that as I've told before.
Low 1-C is 5-6D, which is what your current evidence leads me to believe for the "God" in this case.

"Dimensions of space can be infinite" How does it not mention about Hilbert dimension?,
Because I'm not seeing them talking about dimensions in terms of higher dimensional number, but physical length.

Lines here are regarding as the axes of dimensions, and all of them perpendicular each other thus form infinite sets of dimension,
That's not a dimension. Those are coordinate points
The X, Y, and Z axis of space being infinite in length will lead to an infinite number of point sets. That does not mean there are infinite higher dimensional spaces.

So yeah, Honkai also have membranes thing too, and a term of imaginary space-time has been used several times, "of the dimensional universe we call 10th and 11th dimensions", and this too, "Related to quantum universe theory", Quantum thingy are a big deal in Honkai verse, whether quantization, quantum fluctuation of the world bubbles or even Schrodinger's cat. From all of this, I can speak fully that there are no that much of directness difference.
The big and important difference is that GL gives a number. Your stuff does not and the number it does give only suggests a 2-A multiverse.
 
Once again, I really don't buy Low 1-C because the dimensional relationship would still apply to the difference between 4-D and 3-D, and it's explicitly stated that there are only "4 dimensions infinitely extending." I strongly doubt that whoever Dr. Ryuusuke was fighting exists on a 4-D level.

That being said, OP did post a scan that allegedly is more direct evidence of High 1-B. I'll see if I can get someone who knows Japanese to translate them and see if they are saying what the OP claims that they are saying.
 
Last edited:
Infinite lines as in the lines are infinitely long, not that theres an infinite amount of them.
You are blatantly downplaying it,they literally asked "Do you know how many lines can be perpendicular to each other in space?" In the previous scan
 
You are blatantly downplaying it,they literally asked "Do you know how many lines can be perpendicular to each other in space?" In the previous scan
I'm just not seeing it supporting High 1-B rather than just infinite directional length.
 
Alright, I got some translations for those Japanese scans that were posted, and they are not what OP claimed them to be. The first scan says: "There exist no limits within this dimensional space. In this case, there exist straight lines, establishing a perpendicular shape, an infinite amount, in this coordinate axis." This one could be read like it's referencing an infinite number of dimensions, but I've been told that the kanji includes だけ, which means only/just, so it is doubtful that they mean "dimensions" in plural. The second scan is somehow even more vague, as it simply reads: "There are no limits to the dimensional space."

Basically, unless I'm reading the first scan wrong, High 1-B looks like a no-go here.
 
Last edited:
Ah, thank you.

But yeah, I wish OP would give some more context behind their scans. It really feels like a lot of stuff is being left out that could make or break the ratings they are proposing. We'll have to see if anyone can provide, but as of now, I think that this verse just caps at 2-A. Not High 1-B, not High 1-C, not even Low 1-C like Qaw is seemingly suggesting.
 
Thank you for helping out KingPin0422.

Would somebody be willing to adjust the page to 2-A if I unlock it?
 
Actually, if I may backtrack a little bit: I looked at the scans again, and I realized that the one scan saying that the extra dimensions are compact is referring to one specific universe, and not the Quantum Sea as a whole. It's actually plausible for the Quantum Sea to be an actual 11-D structure, given that:
  1. It explicitly does not belong to any one universe, but is a medium that can carry all possible worlds.
  2. Its structure cannot be described within a 3-D or even 4-D mathematical framework.
  3. It is described as an 11-dimensional "ether bathtub" that all "world bubbles" are embedded within.
  4. The structure of the world bubble is described as a set of manifolds embedded into a high-dimensional space (the Quantum Sea).
So, at the very least, I am open to the idea of High 1-C now. Whether it is put as a solid tier or as a possible/likely rating remains to be discussed.
 
Even with that, I'm not seeing more than Low 1-C. Since those dimensions can still be string rather than geometric. Which was my main issue originally with that ratings. But I guess you are right that its more justifiable than it was previously.
 
I reread the scan in the third link I gave multiple times over, and now I'm suddenly even more convinced of High 1-C. It says that the world bubbles embedded within the Quantum Sea have choices in their inheritance of its 11 dimensions, which strongly indicates (from my perspective, at least) that some of these world bubbles have more large dimensions than others, with the Quantum Sea itself almost certainly having all 11 of these dimensions be non-compact.

I'd like to see what other people think, but this seems like a pretty big realization that gives the High 1-C interpretation even more credibility. It's very reminiscent of how Max Tegmark's type II multiverse works, if I'm reading everything correctly.
 
Quantum Sea itself almost certainly having all 11 of these dimensions be non-compact.
My issue is that I don't know if those 11-Dimensions are usable for a AP rating. Like the manifolds are solid but they are also only applied to the world bubbles which are 2-A AP wise, and being part of a larger space would be Low 1-C rather than High 1-C.

Though if the OP is fine with it "Low 1-C, likely High 1-C" is usable I guess.
 
I'm not sure why they wouldn't be usable. On top of what I just said, the Quantum Sea extending infinitely across 11 dimensions would entail a size equivalent to R^11, because that's the set which is identified with a real coordinate space consisting of 11 axes, i.e., an 11-dimensional manifold. Plus, we still have that scan which goes into detail about the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one, with Dr. Ryuusuke comparing himself to the reader of a novel, and his lower-dimensional opponent to a character within that novel. That should be perfectly applicable to reinforcing the notion that world bubbles with more large dimensions are naturally bigger and better than those that have fewer of them, IMO.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep very soon, so I'll respond to whatever you or anyone else has to say when I wake up, assuming this isn't concluded in my sleep.
 
Thank you both for helping out with finding a solution here.
 
an 11-dimensional manifold
But the manifold was only applied to the lower 4-Dimensional space, not the entire cosmology.
Plus, we still have that scan which goes into detail about the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one, with Dr. Ryuusuke comparing himself to the reader of a novel
Which, as before, is where I said the Low 1-C thing comes from. From being dimensionally superior to them.

But whatever. I don't really know enough about the franchise to argue more. If people agree with you on that High 1-C justification I won't argue against it. No High 1-B though.
 
Okay. Do the current justifications for High 1-C in the page need to be updated?
 
But the manifold was only applied to the lower 4-Dimensional space, not the entire cosmology.
I'm not understanding what you're saying here. Are you trying to say that the 11 dimensions are only ever mentioned within the context of a single world bubble? Because that is blatantly false. The third scan outright states that the Quantum Sea is an 11-dimensional structure, and that the world bubbles make their own choices in inheriting these dimensions, which also brings us back to the first scan where the universe being talked about consists of 4 dimensions infinitely extending and 7 dimensions finitely curled up. As I said before, this is very much like how Max Tegmark thought that a type II multiverse would work: an infinitely expanding, high-dimensional space (the Quantum Sea) wherein some regions congeal into subspaces with some smaller number of dimensions (the world bubbles).
Which, as before, is where I said the Low 1-C thing comes from. From being dimensionally superior to them.
Again, I'm not seeing how that's Low 1-C on its own. Couldn't the guy in that scan just as easily be 4-D and still be superior by virtue of his higher-dimensional nature?
But whatever. I don't really know enough about the franchise to argue more. If people agree with you on that High 1-C justification I won't argue against it. No High 1-B though.
I don't agree with High 1-B either, so at least we see eye-to-eye there. But yes, we should let the people decide - gotta uphold the democracy of VS Battles.
 
KingPin0422 and Qawsedf234:

Would either of you be willing to update the explanations within the profile page if necessary?
 
"The Honkai Gestalt is seated at the Imaginary Tree, a realm which sustains the existence and structure of the Quantum Sea. The Quantum Sea is described as an 11-dimensional "ether bathtub" which is the foundation that carries all possible world bubbles, with each world bubble having its own inheritance of these eleven dimensions, such as the main universe consisting of four large dimensions and seven compact dimensions. Furthermore, the structure of the Quantum Sea cannot be fully captured within the framework of a 3-dimensional or 4-dimensional mathematical system, and the difference between a higher dimension and a lower one is compared to the difference between a reader and a novel."

^ How does this look so far?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top