Homura Akemi vs Dio Brando

[Fllflourine]

Who will win in this battle of Time Stoppers? I'm surprised this battle hasn't been made yet.

Homura Akemi and Dio Brando

Battleground: A Generic City.

Victory via Permanent Death, BFR,

No Prep and the only knowledge they'll get for the battle is the general layout of the city and that the other opponent has a similar ability to them

In Character, but are willing to kill.

Both Fighters can move in each other's stopped time, and Homura can see (and damage) The World. (Due to having a power that has a connection to the soul, IIRC, I've heard thats the reason Homura is able to see/harm Stands)

Base Homura (7-C) vs DIO during Stardust Crusaders (8-A)

Speed Equalized.



Round 1: Starting Distance: 20 Meters Homura: 2 Dio: 5 Inconclusive: 0

Round 2: Starting Distance: 50 Meters Homura: 4 Dio: 3 Inconclusive: 0

Round 3: Starting Distance: 100 Meters Homura: 4 Dio: 3 Inconclusive: 0

 

[SomebodyData]

Round 1: Dio via much greater AP and because of proximiety (Unless he gets cocky or something, but I doubt it, well somewhat)

Round 2 & 3: Probably Homura, thanks to her range advantage she could use her Scorpion Bullet if thats not enough (Or simply suck him into her shield

Of course, this is assuming speed equalized, without it, its a stomp

 

[Fllflourine]

Round 1: Dio via much greater AP and because of proximiety (Unless he gets cocky or something, but I doubt it, well somewhat)
Round 2 & 3: Probably Homura, thanks to her range advantage she could use her Scorpion Bullet if thats not enough (Or simply suck him into her shield

Of course, this is assuming speed equalized, without it, its a stomp

I'll equalize speeds then.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@SD: Oh, i see why.

R1 because Homura has Building level dura, which makes her a glass cannon here.

R2's 2 and 3 because of range and....whatever that is.

 

[Fllflourine]

@SD: Oh, i see why.
R1 because Homura has Building level dura, which makes her a glass cannon here.

R2's 2 and 3 because of range and....whatever that is.

So same vote as SD I take it?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Fllflourine: If DIO doesn't screw around too much in R1, yeah sure.

 

[Fllflourine]

Does Homura have a means of getting past Dio's Regenerationn though?

 

[SomebodyData]

@Fllflourine she would likely overload the regen with sheer number of attacks and aoe, much like the battle between Oktavia and Kyoko, or Roy and Envy.

 

[KuroSleepyAsh]

Thought i should mention this but............the only way you can kill dio is if you destroy his stand or use sunlight.The world is a stand that can move at supersonic speed and is durable enough to take multiple hits that can destroy diamonds unless homura finds a way to destroy world she is doomed against dio IMO.And also if homura so much as flinches against the world that would be REALLY FATAL cause the world can deliver a quick counter attack like what he did when he exchanged punches against star platinum one missed attack and the world was able to punch him in Not to mention that the world can keep up with the speed of star platinum which is also highly supersonic.In the end the real enemy of homura is the world not dio.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Thought i should mention this but............the only way you can kill dio is if you destroy his stand or use sunlight.The world is a stand that can move at supersonic speed and is durable enough to take multiple hits that can destroy diamonds unless homura finds a way to destroy world she is doomed against dio IMO.And also if homura so much as flinches against the world that would be REALLY FATAL cause the world can deliver a quick counter attack like what he did when he exchanged punches against star platinum one missed attack and the world was able to punch him in Not to mention that the world can keep up with the speed of star platinum which is also highly supersonic.In the end the real enemy of homura is the world not dio.

The speed is equalized btw.

 

[SomebodyData]

Uh @Compulsory not only is speed equalized, the stands are MFTL+. Also, everything you just stated kinda sounds like NLF, espically since the fight in the Joestar mansion had none of that and almost killed Dio.

 

[KuroSleepyAsh]

Uh @Compulsory not only is speed equalized, the stands are MFTL+. Also, everything you just stated kinda sounds like NLF, espically since the fight in the Joestar mansion had none of that and almost killed Dio.

yeah ok then.well if speed is equalised and homura can harm stands I dont really get the case here.even if speed is tied (i assume the world is faster)it comes down to WHO IS MORE EXPIERIENCED AND ACCUSTOMED to that speed.AND I ALSO ASSUME THAT HOMURA ONLY COPIES PHYSICHAL SPEED NOT PASSIVE SPEED (EX.REFLEXES).so if speed is tied it comes down TO WHO REACTS FASTER TO THE SPEED OF THE OTHER.since the world is pretty much more reactive on reflexes than homura THE WORLD WILL OUTSPEED HER.but this is just an assumption

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Uh @Compulsory not only is speed equalized, the stands are MFTL+. Also, everything you just stated kinda sounds like NLF, espically since the fight in the Joestar mansion had none of that and almost killed Dio.

yeah ok then.well if speed is equalised and homura can harm stands I dont really get the case here.even if speed is tied (i assume the world is faster)it comes down to WHO IS MORE EXPIERIENCED AND ACCUSTOMED to that speed.AND I ALSO ASSUME THAT HOMURA ONLY COPIES PHYSICHAL SPEED NOT PASSIVE SPEED (EX.REFLEXES).so if speed is tied it comes down TO WHO REACTS FASTER TO THE SPEED OF THE OTHER.since the world is pretty much more reactive on reflexes than homura THE WORLD WILL OUTSPEED HER.but this is just an assumptio

I assume you don't understand that Speed Equalized means that both characters will move at the same speed regardless of whatever speed that is.

Also, DIO is really lacking in Hax once you take out his Time Stopping abilities.

 

[AguilaR101]

Homura really lacks AP without prep. her 7-C feat agains walpurgis was only acheived after months of careful planning and previous placement of kilotons of explosives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S09mEDCqSx4

Dio by the end of part 1 was standing at City-Block level and in part 3 it's likely higher with The World standing at MCB+ level.

The best she can manage normally is whatever military equipment she has at hand, and unless she is carrying several dozen MOABs (which he has never shown to have) under her shield there is no way she is even doing a scratch to Dio or The World.

To put this into perspective Dio is 900+ tons of TNT in durabilty scaled off SP, Homura's best weapons without prep are RPG which barely have more than 1kg of explosives within them, she'd need them in the order of 900,000 to even breach Dio's base durability.

And as you can see in the video above, she only manages to shoot around a hundred of them within a single timestop.

Dio wins all scenarios unless Homura has prep and even then she still needs to be able to lure him into an area with that many explosives in the first place

 

[SomebodyData]

>Months

>Goes back in time after one month

Actually, Part 1 is MCB from scaling to Part 3.

Actually, she has all her arsenal in shield, unless you're trying to argue she stole entire submarines armed with missles in a few minutes

Theres also the fact that she can place them all thanks to her superior time stop, you do also know that her weapons are amplified by magic... right? (In case you couldn't tell, there is a purpleish aura surronding many of her weapons, and considering they were on scale with Mami Tomoe's weapons which are very amplified versions of really crappy guns)

We never actually see the full scale of her weaponry in most of the scenes

Not really, she already has her weapons and still has superior time stop, range, and equalized speed

 

[AguilaR101]

>Months
>Goes back in time after one month

Actually, Part 1 is MCB from scaling to Part 3.

Actually, she has all her arsenal in shield, unless you're trying to argue she stole entire submarines armed with missles in a few minutes

Theres also the fact that she can place them all thanks to her superior time stop, you do also know that her weapons are amplified by magic... right? (In case you couldn't tell, there is a purpleish aura surronding many of her weapons, and considering they were on scale with Mami Tomoe's weapons which are very amplified versions of really crappy guns)

We never actually see the full scale of her weaponry in most of the scenes

Not really, she already has her weapons and still has superior time stop, range, and equalized speed

>Months

At this point she has gone through several one month timeloops, she has planned the encounter several times.

>Actually, she has all her arsenal in shield, unless you're trying to argue she stole entire submarines armed with missles in a few minutes

She may have them under her shield but doesn't change the fact that she had to place her biggest weapons in strategic points to even make use of them.

She also doesn't have FOABS or MOABS, the biggest individual weapons she has are cruise missiles which are considerably weaker and rather limited in her stock, not enough of them to cause damage even in timestop.

>Theres also the fact that she can place them all thanks to her superior time stop,

Good luck placing an accumlative kiloton of individual explosive charges within a few minutes, she couldn't even fire more than a few hundred rpgs in that time, what reason is there to believe she can place millions of individual explosive charges within the limits of her timestop?

>you do also know that her weapons are amplified by magic... right?

Proof that they're being amplified?

When weapons are amplified by magic in madokaverse they completely change in shape and form (see Sayaka's bat in ep 3), this is also an ability that only Mami has shown to use.

All she shows here is remote control of her weapons.

Plus the destructive power of any of her weapons never show more DC than what they normally do, hurting average witches doesn't mean much in of itself as they're seriously lacking in actual durability feats.

>We never actually see the full scale of her weaponry in most of the scenes

Doesn't matter, there is no reason to believe she has more weapons than the ones she has shown. Plus it's unlikely that she held back anything that could've been useful against Walpurgis.

 

[SomebodyData]

Preferably don't quote long replies, you know just to prevent lag.

While it is true she strategetily planned this for months, it doesn't mean she needs that prep to still use them, she can just take them out and with time stop spam them

^Refer ro #1

The Cruise Missle is already Town level on its own, http://www.theguardian.com/newsroom/story/0,,1865423,00.html , unless you're talking about something else

The reasoning behind the fact that she only fired 100 missles (Which we actually never saw the full scale of) was because by the time they had gotten near, they had stopped completely and could not explode at all thanks to the time stop.

Actually, in Mami's case they change color, where as homura doesn't as shown by her MK26 grenades going from 9-B to being able to completely destroy Oktavia and her regen, her "normal" guns being able to break Madoka's soul gems and etc.

Through sheer size most witches are building level, and a witch like Charolette is completely immune to Mami's tiro finale, something we see in Rebellion to be able to produce 8-A to 7-C destruction in Rebellion.

 

[AguilaR101]

Still, she shows that she can't just drop kilotons of explosives in the vicinity and make quick use of them (of course as they would kill her also) If we're going to argue she can get out of harms way before they blow up, there is no reason dio couldn't do the same in 10 seconds of timefreeze as well.

I made a mistake here, the missiles she used against walpurgis ( to knock her over to the area where she planted her explosives) more closely these, which are admittedly much weaker than town level. she doesn't have cruise missiles with nuke payloads from what I can gather of the anime and rebellion.

The scale we're shown is still far from what it's needed to accumulate at least 900 tons of tnt, though we don't know the full extent nothing implies we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg regarding that scene.

Are you referring to this? she used quite a large amount of pipebombs here so the effect isn't really surprising.

Not quite, the tiro finale she used against charlotte was very different in effect and form compared to the one she used in rebellion and the scene itself is wonky regarding how Charlotte "tanked" that, it looks like she didn't hit her true body at all in the first place.

 

[SomebodyData]

Actually, I was thinking more like Dio would use up his 10 seconds trying to break through Homura's barrier, (which survived a hit from Walpurgis, and considering that her mere presence began destroying the city, its pretty easy to see where Homura's barrier's durability lies, at least long enough to hold off Dio)

Actually, it is possible, since most of her weapons were stolen from a UN/US base in Japan, and the carriers of cruise missle can vary. I have my doubts for the Type 3, as the missle system was underwater, and the Type 3 requires a land to water system, unlike the Cruise Missle. (Not to mention mention it kind of makes sence when you consider Mami being considered Homura equal)

How potent is a RPG anyway? While it is true, its not enough on its own, it can be used along side other weapons to enhance lethality.

Oops my bad. I was meaning this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VNmTMhmfMI

Thats semi true, while the Tiro Finale in Rebellion is in fact stronger, one must realize that the amount of energy Mami used for it (As shown by Madoka in the third timeline and Tart, if the stamina is overwhelmed by the potency of the weapon, then your soul gem darkens quickly) must not be extremely higher than her ordinary Tiro Finale.

 

[AguilaR101]

It would depend on who decides to attack first then.

It's highly unlikely, considering japan abolished nuclear weapons. I also couldn't find anything that says US bases in there have them.

To add to that the missiles she used didn't show to be that strong in destructive power.

Not really that strong in terms of explosive power, depending on the models they range from 1-10kg of explosives, its usefulness often relies on penetration power against tanks from HEAT rounds.

It would wise to get someone to calculate that to give a general idea of how much they can boost the power of the weapons they use.

While that's true it doesn't seem consistent for it to be that strong here, otherwise the averge explosive Homura uses is bordering on town level, which of course is contradicted by further showings.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well thats where the range plays a role, since the first round was ideal for Dio, I put him as ye likelier winner, however the 2nd and 3rd rounds were ideal for Homura so I put her as the victor in those rounds.

Actually, the US still has the W80 and AGM-86, although I think the most likely canidate would be the BGM-109 Tomahawk, as its shown in submarines, and while its out of service, it still in the reserves for the US.

Really? Because from what I saw they were able to be encompass Walpurgis nacht, who is already like multi-city blocks in sheer size.

Hmm, I see.

That is true, but all we do know right now is that its a pretty big boost, massive even, as the M26 grenade is from WW2, back when most of the lethality was based on shrapnel and explosions were just the force to push said shrapnels.

Theres always the AoE just not being high enough, which is not unheard of (Sayaka and Kyoko's attacks for examples) and the average explosion from what I see would be 8-B - 8-A on their own, however using many of them at the same time is what would make them 7-C, with the exception of her stronger weapons.

 

[AguilaR101]

>Actually, the US still has the W80 and AGM-86, although I think the most likely canidate would be the BGM-109 Tomahawk, as its shown in submarines, and while its out of service, it still in the reserves for the US.

From what I read it has a 200kt warhead, way too big of a yield for it to not leave a visible mushroom cloud or the aftereffects that come with explosions that large, specially when she fired at least 6 of them, the resulting explosion would have destroyed what was left of the vicinity and there would be no buildings standing like we see towards the end.

>Really? Because from what I saw they were able to be encompass Walpurgis nacht, who is already like multi-city blocks in sheer size.

The volume of the explosion is indeed as large as walpurgis, but that doesn't make it automatically put it on the same level as a nuclear warhead, since it's lacking in some defining characteristics of an actual nuclear explosion

It also doesn't have an uniform fireball from which I could derive legit results from the nuke calculator, in any case the result of this would have be divided by 6 to account for every missile that hit walpurgis in the first place.

 

[SomebodyData]

Considering Walpurgis' extremely unnatural effects on the weather and gravity of the city, it is very possible that there was no water vapor to be condensed into the cloud, this also makes sence when you consider that at the very beginning of the fight, Walpurgis nacht had already converted water into fog, which would eventually go up to the higher ends of the ozone layer through the evaporation process, resulting in there to be no water vapor to be made into the mushroom cloud. This is further supported by the fact that ashes and rain fell down from the sky after the fight had ended in one of the timelines.

Theres also the fact that the clouds would have needed normal gravity to form to begin with, but yeah, I think you get the point, scaling/calcing from these explosions at least the ones that would be dependent on a normal level of gravity would be immpossible.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

A character who is 7-C vs someone who is 8-A and the speed is equalised? And the 8-A's techniques are all rendered useless too which is just a flat out stomp.

 

[AguilaR101]

Considering Walpurgis' extremely unnatural effects on the weather and gravity of the city, it is very possible that there was no water vapor to be condensed into the cloud, this also makes sence when you consider that at the very beginning of the fight, Walpurgis nacht had already converted water into fog, which would eventually go up to the higher ends of the ozone layer through the evaporation process, resulting in there to be no water vapor to be made into the mushroom cloud. This is further supported by the fact that ashes and rain fell down from the sky after the fight had ended in one of the timelines.
Theres also the fact that the clouds would have needed normal gravity to form to begin with, but yeah, I think you get the point, scaling/calcing from these explosions at least the ones that would be dependent on a normal level of gravity would be immpossible.

Makes sense, though I'm still unsure of where her missiles would rank, most likely high MCB+ by virtue of AoE scaled off Walpurgis' size. (somwhere between 300-700m of diameter, her size is inconsistent as heck throught the fight)

 

[SomebodyData]

@Judge Homura's magical girl form really only has time stop, btw. And her durability is building level, hence why this isn't really a stomp.

@AguilaR101, yeah I guess, although theres still likelier of it being 7-C through probably being Cruise missles, as it is really the only missle that fits the bill here.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

@Judge Homura's magical girl form really only has time stop, btw. And her durability is building level, hence why this isn't really a stomp.

If Homura's magical girl form has atleast a 10-9 second length for time stop then DIO will really not be able to do anything at all. And because speed is equalised there is no possible way of trying to figure out who will land the first hit, unless you take combat experience into account which DIO afaik lacks.

 

[SomebodyData]

So I'm guessing you're voting for Homura Akemi @Judge?

 

[KuroSleepyAsh]

i have a question.does homura copies dio's speed or the world's

 

[SomebodyData]

I think they all just get the same speed

 

[Fllflourine]

So AMM is voting for Homura all 3 rounds I take it?

 

[SomebodyData]

@Fllf I would assume so

 

[Neo_Brando]

So guys.. The world's speed is equalized? or has a limit.. because if dio's stand has no limitation he'd curbstomp Homura.. we banned damage accumulation but if dio strikes billions of punches in a single place it'll deal more than a multicityblock hit..

Dio takes this with mid-high difficulty..

 

[Fllflourine]

So guys.. The world's speed is equalized? or has a limit.. because if dio's stand has no limitation he'd curbstomp Homura.. we banned damage accumulation but if dio strikes billions of punches in a single place it'll deal more than a multicityblock hit..
Dio takes this with mid-high difficulty..

All 3 rounds?

 

[SomebodyData]

The World's speed is equalized as well

 

[Neo_Brando]

So guys.. The world's speed is equalized? or has a limit.. because if dio's stand has no limitation he'd curbstomp Homura.. we banned damage accumulation but if dio strikes billions of punches in a single place it'll deal more than a multicityblock hit..
Dio takes this with mid-high difficulty..

All 3 rounds?

The 1 round is a dio stomp.. the 2 is a mid diff dio.. the 3 a high diff dio or a mid diff homura..

 

[SomebodyData]

@Neo can I ask why you believe so?

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Can someone explain to me why this isn't a straight stomp with homura rewinding time over and over until she figures out a plan that defeats Dio after she's observed his powers a bunch of times.

 

[SomebodyData]

Because... she won't need it?

Mainly because she isn't fighting someone like Walpurguis Nacht where the gap is so big she is forced to use it

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

It's her trump card and its not like she would hold it back for fear of collateral damage like some other characters might have to, it makes no sense for her not to use it - especailly if shes taking damage and about to die or otherwise in a tight spot.