Homestuck god tiers downgrade

[The_Wright_Way]

There are actually some screenshots from the latest Pesterquest that could expand on the verses cosmology. I'll post them when I have time. Keep this open in the meantime.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

what are the statments?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Spoilers for Pesterquest Volume 10 incoming. If you haven't caught up yet and want to, this is your chance to leave.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I got these scans from a live stream. You can watch it in full on RyanPhantom's YouTube channel.

Now then, context. In Feferi's Route in Pesterquest, Feferi saves the Reader from almost drowning and the two bond over shared distaste for Alternia's government. They agree to start a revolution together, but in order to figure out how, Feferi contacts some mysterious being referred to only as The Wise One.

This being communicates via Karako, either using his soul as a vessel or simply taking his form isn't made clear.


The Wise One goes into detail about the state of the universe for a bit using the metaphor of overlapping rivers











He offers them a chance to transcend this "river".

If the reader accepts, this happens.






I don't know if this upgrades the verse as a whole or only applies to these characters. I don't know enough about tier 1 to tell.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Oh. Wait. I missed this quote:

 

[QuasiYuri]

Wait what.

I just did Eridan's route, but this looks very cool (I didn't read cuz spoil, but I'll give my opinion about it in some hours).

Also The Wise Ones are likely The Horrorterors, since they're the only being Feferi communicated with for what we know.

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Also, IIRC, there is a statement on Nigh-Omniscient Horrorterrors

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Also, IIRC, there is a statement on Nigh-Omniscient Horrorterrors

That is literally the first statement we even get hold of what horrorterrors are

 

[QuasiYuri]

After reading the route: It seems a lot like the High 1-B to Low 1-A of The Unwritten.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

 

[Antvasima]

An ascending hierarchy of reality-fiction interaction is somewhat similar to The Unwritten or Umineko, yes, but we can only rate these characters based on the explicit scale that they have shown in the series, as the series' most powerful beings only ascended past one degree of it (Andrew Hussie).

 

[QuasiYuri]

We don't know how high is Andrew, and all of the most powerful beings are above him. With some Ultimate Selves statement, they can possibly scale. Also MSPAR and Feferi seems to transcend this in the ending of the route, as showed by Sleuth.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

1-A homestuck when?

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

Paradox Space is existence, which LE was destroying. He should scale

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Isn't it widely agreed Hussie is to inconsistent to scale to anything? Regardless, still the Lord English level characters scale to this. I'm suspicious about 1-A just because it seems like such a massive upgrade from out of nowhere, but I'll listen to members more knowledgable on the subject.

 

[Lavtop]

Can someone make a summary? I read downgrade but aren't they already low 1C?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

They're low 1-C because of this very downgrade. We're tslking about other things now.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Well, Homestuck already had some vague stuff that suggested some tier 1 stuff, and I don't see anything that doesn't make this legit.

I think that at the very least, we could have a possible 1-B or Low 1-A

 

[Sadistic_Sleuth]

LE AP: At least High Hyperverse level (Was destroying Paradox Space, which is all of existence, including a hierarchy of creators that is stated to be infinite-dimensional, with each layer being infinitely greater and bigger than the last. Killed Andrew Hussie, the author of MS Paint Adventures)

 

[QuasiYuri]

It looks good, even if I think we can get better.

 

[Antvasima]

Aren't you making great assumptions regarding that the creators referred to are not far above Paradox Space? The first degree of creator mentioned is very likely Andrew Hussie after all.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Paradox Space always referred to all of existence, it seems very unlikely that the meaning changed. Also, Andrew has statements of being able to affect "all real and hypothetical dimensions", I don't see why he would necessary be the lowest in the hierarchy.

 

[Antvasima]

All of existence within the Homestuck verse with Hussie as the creator. They likely referred to transcendental hierarchies beyond Hussie, given that Homestuck is just one story setting, and it isn't uncommon that mystics believe that we live within another, and that this pattern continues forever. This has also become popularised in fiction lately.

 

[Antvasima]

In any case, we need far more specific context before we can allow such massive upgrades. You can ask Promestein to comment here if you wish.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

So, where does that leave MSPAR and Feferi Post-Transcendence?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know. Which characters do they scale to?

 

[Promestein]

Here's one question, is Karako correct, here? You get some vague, jokey ending, and that's it. Nothing confirming her own religious worldview.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

So far? No one. The Wise One just says they'll "trancend the river levels one by one."

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Here's one question, is Karako correct, here? You get some vague, jokey ending, and that's it. Nothing confirming her own religious worldview.

1. Karako is a guy.

2. Karako isn't the one talking. It's theorized by the Reader that he's representing some strange cosmic being. He's either an avatar for some cosmic being that looks like Karako or Karako being used as a puppet. I think such a being would know.

 

[Promestein]

My mistake.

Theorized.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I mean, he's very clearly not actually Karako, as he doesn't recognize the Reader at all despite having personally met him, which is what gets the Reader wondering about what happened to begin with.

There's also his introduction to consider, which I'll post scans if in a minute.

 

[QuasiYuri]

What Karako says is legit yeah. First, he's of the mind aspect, which is all about knowing how the universe works and stuff like that. Second, the Dark Carnival and the whole messiah stuff is a representation of Truth in Homestuck. Third, Feferi seems to consider him more reliable than the Horrorterrors.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

First off, let's get some context out of the way. Throughout Homestuck, Purple Bloods refer to something called The Dark Carnival. However, it's only during Karako's route in Friendsim that we actually see it first hand.

https://youtu.be/JWaVMOGblMY (relevant info starts at 15:59)

Karako and the Reader get harassed by Seadwellers. In the Bad End, Karako fights them and dies. Then, The Dark Carnival appears and takes him away to the after life. It's described as "entering the dimension Alternia occupies" and the mere sight if it it enough to give the Reader an existential crisis because of it's sheer size.

Worth noting is although this is the Bad Ending, the events if it are still canon. Doc Scratch simply rewinds time every time the Reader messes up. The Reader even remembers all the Bad Endings after getting his memories back in Pesterquest and can still faintly remember them throughout Friendsim proper.

Then see how we meet "Karako" in Pesterquest.

https://youtu.be/jBPCWL0xTi4 (14:04 onward for relevant info)

Feferi calls her advisor to get advice from after talking with the Reader about starting a rebellion. This advisor turns out to be "Karako", who the Reader recognizes. He also recognizes the place they meet him in as being The Dark Carnival. However, he also recognizes "Karako" as being distinctly off.

He doesn't recognize the Reader, his mind is strictly on task rather than the more childlike and curious Karako seen in Friendsim, and he doesn't even change expression anymore. Even though, if you choose not to transcend, Feferi dismisses everything he said as "a bunch of bullshit", that doesn't change the fact that she and the Reader still undergo a transformation in the Transcendence ending.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but we do not know how far they transcend along the hierarchy.

 

[QuasiYuri]

The goal was to understand all of it, so I think saying that they transcend it completely would be good.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems like too much speculation.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Well, I don't think it's really speculative, since it's implied in a pretty direct way.

Anyway, another CRT with support statements would be better I think.

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask all of the staff members listed in the MS Paint Adventures verse page to comment here.

 

[Promestein]

Undergoing some sort of transformation in the Transcendance ending does not mean 'Karako' is telling the complete truth, and I'm not comfortable hinging such a huge upgrade on this anyways.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Eh, I kinda agree. Let's wait and see what happens in the next Pesterquest Volume.