High 7-A REBirth Tournament Round 8 (Oro vs Jin Mu-Won)

[First_Witch]

Welcome welcome, to the tournament of heroes and warriors!
Follow along the fates of 16 remarkable
individuals from across space and time,
in this tournament of glory and honor!

In this glorious Round, on the On the Left: Jin Mu-Won! On the Right: Oro!

​

 

[Rikimarox2]

I just realized how much Jin's current profile picture sucks, but whatev.

Anyways, what advantage does Oro have on Jin?

Because from what I'm seeing, Jin has:

Higher AP (3.07x~ ap difference)

Higher LS (433 tons vs 48 tons)

Probably much more skilled, tbh (Effortlessly fodderized a dude who was called a martial art master, and took him down, and his disciples, without them even touching the seams of his clothes. Has also managed to copy a technique from a "sword god" after only seeing it once, and defeated him as well. Also defeated a master hand-to-hand dude)

Has one shot ability (granted, he never uses it unless its in dire situations where he goes toe-to-toe, and has already been hit a shit ton of times)

Can paralyze and restrain if he manages to pierce Oro with his sword, and keep it there. Oro will also get mind controlled if he touches Jins blade.

Edit: He doesn't actually mind control if he struck it inside them, but instead paralyze and restrain them. Keep in mind he has to keep it inside the dude, and let go of his sword, which he rarely does.

 

[Razor]

Jin Mu Won being able to Incap anyone with just a graze of his sword sounds too OP. Anyways from what I've heard Street fighter dudes are crazy skilled so I wouldn't be too fast on deciding who's more skilled.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Jin Mu Won being able to Incap anyone with just a graze of his sword sounds too OP.

He can't incap anyone with just a graze, he has to pierce someone with the sword, and keep it there. It will then paralyze them, and restrain them. He rarely does that unless he gets beaten as well.

 

[Razor]

He can't incap anyone with just a graze, he has to pierce someone with the sword, and keep it there. It will then paralyze them, and restrain them. He rarely does that unless he gets beaten as well.

Oh if its ooc then its alright.

 

[Popted2]

how skilled is Oro? because Jin is very skilled

 

[Razor]

I don't know much about street fighter but from the intelligence section of his profile he sounds really skilled as well

 

[SamanPatou]

The AP difference isn't that high, since Oro is at least equal to Akuma, who can stomp a Ryu who's stronger than his past self, who performed the 1.2 gigatons feat.
Oro can also boost the strength of his special moves.

When it comes to skill, defeating two master martial artists can easily be nothing impressive for Oro.
On top of everything that is written in his intelligence section, I can say he is easily the most experienced and skilled fighter of the verse, and only Akuma might challenge him, the same Akuma who can surpass one like Gen.
Dhalsim, who is also an incredibly skilled and experienced fighter for the standards of the series (where even the mid tiers are almost all either world champions of their discipline, masters of one or multiple martial arts or gifted fighters in general), states that even when holding back in a sparring match, Oro is simply unpredictable, and him and Rose look up at him as a master.
And although he has lived a challenge-free life for a long time, he states that he keeps improving day by day, and an in-game biography states that keeps training to reach even greater heights.
(I will link the sources of these things in this message later, and on Oro's profile in the future).

Touching and stabbing Oro isn't easy either, we can't tell if he has experience against swordsman, but his overall skill, experience and intelligence should make up for that.
He is super movable and has ninja-like levels of acrobatics (see characters like Ibuki and Guy to see what ninjas in the SF verse can do), can jump very high into the sky, can stick to surfaces even tho it shouldn't be possible, has true flight, is super skilled with ranged ki attacks (see how the pinnacle of martial arts-related prowess with ki attacks is considered by him as plaything for youngsters) and can use telekinesis, which he has mastered as well.

 

[Rikimarox2]

The AP difference isn't that high, since Oro is at least equal to Akuma, who can stomp a Ryu who's stronger than his past self, who performed the 1.2 gigatons feat.
Oro can also boost the strength of his special moves.

According to the other threads I have read, scaling chains pretty much becomes irrelevent when the opponent has a set AP.

For example, even if Oro was heavily above the 1.2 ap feat, if he doesn't have a set ap, then Jin would still be more than >3.5x stronger.

When it comes to skill, defeating two master martial artists can easily be nothing impressive for Oro.
On top of everything that is written in his intelligence section, I can say he is easily the most experienced and skilled fighter of the verse, and only Akuma might challenge him, the same Akuma who can surpass one like Gen.
Dhalsim, who is also an incredibly skilled and experienced fighter for the standards of the series (where even the mid tiers are almost all either world champions of their discipline, masters of one or multiple martial arts or gifted fighters in general), states that even when holding back in a sparring match, Oro is simply unpredictable, and him and Rose look up at him as a master.
And although he has lived a challenge-free life for a long time, he states that he keeps improving day by day, and an in-game biography states that keeps training to reach even greater heights.
(I will link the sources of these things in this message later, and on Oro's profile in the future).

I don't see how that makes him more skilled than Jin, when even dudes in LOTNB are taught multiple martial arts? Some easy, some hard af, and the martial arts of the northern sect, which is what Jin learned, is unusually complex, and you can't even memorize all of it, let alone master it, and yet Jin did.

If the novel is anything to go by (Considering the manhwa is a faithful adaptation to it, and the novel has some answers to some questions in the manhwa), people start learning martial arts at around the age of six or seven. And Jin managed to fodderize a martial art master that seemed to be in his 60-70s. Hell, we are even shown that normal martial artists can absolutely fodderize others in terms of skill, as well.

Jin, even before the time-skip, managed to almost defeat a dude who annihilated a guy that defeated 100 martial artists, 30 of them were martial masters.

He has also copied an attack from a master swordsman, who presumably trained for his entire life, and Jin copied his techniques after only seeing it once.

Not to mention, A Master in hand-to-hand combat, a martial art master, stated that he couldn't read Jin's movement at all, despite being comparable to him in speed and strength.

Touching and stabbing Oro isn't easy either, we can't tell if he has experience against swordsman, but his overall skill, experience and intelligence should make up for that.
He is super movable and has ninja-like levels of acrobatics (see characters like Ibuki and Guy to see what ninjas in the SF verse can do), can jump very high into the sky, can stick to surfaces even tho it shouldn't be possible, has true flight, is super skilled with ranged ki attacks (see how the pinnacle of martial arts-related prowess with ki attacks is considered by him as plaything for youngsters) and can use telekinesis, which he has mastered as well.

I still don't really see anything note-worthy here? Jin already defeated a master martial artist, whose trained specifically for hand-to-hand combat, and Jin has multiple attacks that reach well over 100 meters, two of them reach in the kilometers range. And if Jin does get a hold of Oro, it's game over.

Also, Jin defeated multiple assassins already, sensed where a master in stealth was hiding and pinpointed his location as well.

The only problem here seems to be Telekinesis, but if Oro manages to take away Jin's sword, then he'll get mind controlled. And even if he doesn't, a single hit from Jin should be able to cut off a limb at the very least, and if he uses one focus, Oro is toast.

BTW, did Oro ever use telekinesis on someone before, and not just on objects?

 

[FinePoint]

It seems to me like this fight might be close, but that Jin has clear advantages in various areas which should allow him to be the victor at least more often than not. Arguments can be made about scaling closing the AP gap, but I tend to take those with a grain of salt.

I will vote Jin for higher AP, LS, and some versatile options in addition.
Probably mid-diff from skill difference.

 

[SamanPatou]

According to the other threads I have read, scaling chains pretty much becomes irrelevent when the opponent has a set AP.

For example, even if Oro was heavily above the 1.2 ap feat, if he doesn't have a set ap, then Jin would still be more than >3.5x stronger.

That's not true, scaling chains are relevant, this is why we do upscaling to the next tier or with + marks if the chain is long enough.
You can't determine precise numbers out of them, but you can eyeball a difference, and that is a factor that is always accounted in vs matches.

I don't see how that makes him more skilled than Jin, when even dudes in LOTNB are taught multiple martial arts? Some easy, some hard af, and the martial arts of the northern sect, which is what Jin learned, is unusually complex, and you can't even memorize all of it, let alone master it, and yet Jin did.

I didn't say Oro was necessarily more skilled, but he surely isn't outskilled either, not at all.
And tbh, most of the fighting styles of the SF characters are crazy and complex versions of the real ones, when they aren't totally unique, and with Oro's 100+ years of experience and training, it shouldn't be strange for him to meet an unusual fighter, let alone that his own style is unique in-verse and much difference from all others.

Jin, even before the time-skip, managed to almost defeat a dude who annihilated a guy that defeated 100 martial artists, 30 of them were martial masters.

That means nothing if no details are provided for the prowess of such masters, since pretty much all relevant SF characters can fodderize standard martial arts masters, since all of them are the top of what the world has to offer, and many of them have trained since childhood and became champions at a young age, like Sagat and Juri.

He has also copied an attack from a master swordsman, who presumably trained for his entire life, and Jin copied his techniques after only seeing it once.

That is surely good, I assume he could do it also with martial arts?

Not to mention, A Master in hand-to-hand combat, a martial art master, stated that he couldn't read Jin's movement at all, despite being comparable to him in speed and strength.

That is another good skill feat, but details need to be provided for such master. Like, the same was stated for Oro, who was holding back immensely, and Dhalsim remains of the most skilled fighters of the verse.
And even people who are much less skilled that Oro, like Ryu and M. Bison, could do the same against the likes of Alex and FANG, who are all incredibly skilled.

I still don't really see anything note-worthy here? Jin already defeated a master martial artist, whose trained specifically for hand-to-hand combat, and Jin has multiple attacks that reach well over 100 meters, two of them reach in the kilometers range. And if Jin does get a hold of Oro, it's game over.

Range aside, the note-worthy thing is that he has multiple ways to dodge and avoid attacks, while replying with his own blows, using a series of abilities he's mastered and improved overtime.

Also, Jin defeated multiple assassins already, sensed where a master in stealth was hiding and pinpointed his location as well.

Those are enhanced senses/ESP, which Oro also has (ESP, I mean) and judging by his interactions with Dhalsim and Rose, his ability to sense ki is likely the most precise of the verse as well.

The only problem here seems to be Telekinesis, but if Oro manages to take away Jin's sword, then he'll get mind controlled. And even if he doesn't, a single hit from Jin should be able to cut off a limb at the very least, and if he uses one focus, Oro is toast.

BTW, did Oro ever use telekinesis on someone before, and not just on objects?

The first occurs only if Oro grabs the sword, right?
I believe One Focus is restricted in this tournament, since it's a 6-C attack. @First_Witch do you confirm this?

We haven't seen Oro going all out, we only know that he's mastered telekinesis but hasn't used it in combat at its fullest because he always holds back, and the only fight where he was serious was against Akuma, and that happened off screen and with zero details about it, so we can't necessarily say it would be out of character for him to use it, we just don't have evidence of it.

 

[First_Witch]

I believe One Focus is restricted in this tournament, since it's a 6-C attack. @First_Witch do you confirm this?

If it is a higher tier attack when yeah, its restricted

 

[Rikimarox2]

If it is a higher tier attack when yeah, its restricted

Even if its an OOC move, and he only uses it when he gets his ass beaten to hell?

If so, then damn.

 

[Popted2]

bump

 

[Popted2]

bump

 

[Rikimarox2]

BTW, I'm sorry for not posting here. I'm actually busy with schoolwork, and I have some revisions waiting for Jin. So, I can't really comment long posts with scans here until like a day or two, at the very least.

If that's a problem, then I guess you guys can just pick Oro as the winner, even though I genuinely believe Jin would win this. I'm sorry D:

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well i saw a thread about Solo Levelling nerf so i guess this match would get affected as well

 

[Rikimarox2]

Well i saw a thread about Solo Levelling nerf so i guess this match would get affected as well

Dis guy ain't from solo leveling. It's a different Jin.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Dis guy ain't from solo leveling. It's a different Jin.

Oh motherf***er

 

[Popted2]

so,continuing the match would be trublesome since Riki doesn't have time for argument for Jin,

so how about we let Oro proceeds to the next round?

 

[SamanPatou]

We can pause the match and go on with the other rounds, if we want to still keep the tournament active in the meanwhile.

Will the match still be fair after the revision?
If so, I guess we can wait, and also more people should give their thoughts in the meanwhile.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Will the match still be fair after the revision?
If so, I guess we can wait, and also more people should give their thoughts in the meanwhile.

Nothing that major, but It has to be accepted first since it involves both the manga and the novel.

Basically, a rough sketch is:

Analytic prediction/Information Analysis (Can know what the opponent will do by simply seeing their gaze, or the twitch of their muscles), Precognition (Ain't combat applicable, dw), limited heat manipulation (Just makes the temperature colder, not really something useful in combat), full-on resistance to Information Analysis, or analytic prediction, resistance to sensing, and limited resistance to poison, and Chi absorption. Oh and, enhanced sensing/clairvoyance, or whatever. And resistance to Heat Manipulation.

And more skill feats, of course.

 

[First_Witch]

Sorry for my lack of replies, life got a bit hasty on my end. We can pause this and move on to phase 2 yeah

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump!

The CRT has been applied. And more skill feat came with it, and juicy abilities as well.

That's not true, scaling chains are relevant, this is why we do upscaling to the next tier or with + marks if the chain is long enough.
You can't determine precise numbers out of them, but you can eyeball a difference, and that is a factor that is always accounted in vs matches.

That's not what I've heard, though? Like, 2 threads were made for this specific issue, and it apparently did not matter if the opponent has a higher ap calc. You are, of course, welcome to make another thread for it. I'm honestly confused now.

I didn't say Oro was necessarily more skilled, but he surely isn't outskilled either, not at all.
And tbh, most of the fighting styles of the SF characters are crazy and complex versions of the real ones, when they aren't totally unique, and with Oro's 100+ years of experience and training, it shouldn't be strange for him to meet an unusual fighter, let alone that his own style is unique in-verse and much difference from all others.

I honestly doubt that, I see no reason why we'll just magically assume he'll be able to understand his opponent's fighting style, unlike Jin, who has been consistently fighting against dudes who martial arts he has no idea about.

That means nothing if no details are provided for the prowess of such masters, since pretty much all relevant SF characters can fodderize standard martial arts masters, since all of them are the top of what the world has to offer, and many of them have trained since childhood and became champions at a young age, like Sagat and Juri.

How do we define Fodderize here? Fodderize as in, he defeated them easily, or as in, they couldn't even touch the seams of his clothes?

Like, Jin is more skilled and talented than Mu-Sang, a guard who has mastered a martial art that was deemed as weak, although it takes a few years IIRC. And he got his shit rocked against another martial artist, to the point that Mu-Sang couldn't even graze the martial artist's clothes. This is to show the skill difference.

Then, after only one month of training, and some advices here and there from Jin, the dude improved his martial arts so much, that he believed he could go toe-to-toe against the martial artist. It was also stated that Mu-Sang a couple of days ago is incomparable to him after training.

Jin is much more better than this. Hell, he managed to do better against a Chaos Demon, whom have defeated a martial art master, Dam.

Dam is considered a prodigy and a genius in martial arts, having defeated 100 martial artists, many of them being martial art masters whom have presumably mastered many martial arts. And Dam was considered a genius even by extremely skilled dudes, even stating that he could master new martial arts in a very short time-frame. Keep in mind, Dam here is just 18 years old, and could only realistically have trained seriously once he was 11-12 years old, based on the flashbacks.

And Dam got rocked against the Chaos Demon, whom Jin managed to do fairly against, to the point making the Chaos demon scared.

That is not to mention that Jin was heavily inferior to the Demon, to the point that he stated a single direct hit would kill him, and he was consistently being slowed down as well.

That is surely good, I assume he could do it also with martial arts?

Currently, he has only shown to copy Sword Techniques, tho it is a skill feat.

That is another good skill feat, but details need to be provided for such master. Like, the same was stated for Oro, who was holding back immensely, and Dhalsim remains of the most skilled fighters of the verse.
And even people who are much less skilled that Oro, like Ryu and M. Bison, could do the same against the likes of Alex and FANG, who are all incredibly skilled.

I have already provided a rough draft on what normal martial artists in the verse can do, with one of the stronger masters being Dam, whom got shit on by the chaos demon.

Range aside, the note-worthy thing is that he has multiple ways to dodge and avoid attacks, while replying with his own blows, using a series of abilities he's mastered and improved overtime.

I'm not sure how any of his attacks would be able to hit Jin when he has an enhanced version of Analytic prediction. He'd know where Oro would attack, move, etc... and he'd be able to attack accordingly. Not to mention the fact that Jin's movement would get smoother, and more experienced as he continues fighting.

His ability to sense ki is likely the most precise of the verse as well.

Do we assume ki = chi? If so, then I'm not sure if Oro would be able to sense Jin's chi, since he has resistance to Chi sensing, due to having Shadow Chi.

Not to mention, his Chi is ******* weird. It couldn't get analyzed or sensed by martial masters, and the Chaos Demon has an ability that lets him absorb the chi of an opponent, digest it, analyze it, and make a perfect counter to it, but it couldn't do that to Jin's Chi, despite it theoretically being able to adapt to any kind of Chi.

We haven't seen Oro going all out, we only know that he's mastered telekinesis but hasn't used it in combat at its fullest because he always holds back, and the only fight where he was serious was against Akuma, and that happened off screen and with zero details about it, so we can't necessarily say it would be out of character for him to use it, we just don't have evidence of it.

I mean... if there isn't any evidence for him using it on a person, I don't see why we would assume he can? Even if we haven't seen him go all out.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump

 

[First_Witch]

Bump

 

[SamanPatou]

I will reply soon, I've been really busy with IRL things and with a long CRT I'm currently writing.

 

[First_Witch]

I will reply soon, I've been really busy with IRL things and with a long CRT I'm currently writing.

Thats the only thing i wanted to hear. As long as ya lot tell me you currently cant reply, i will wait.

 

[Popted2]

bump

 

[SamanPatou]

That's not what I've heard, though? Like, 2 threads were made for this specific issue, and it apparently did not matter if the opponent has a higher ap calc. You are, of course, welcome to make another thread for it. I'm honestly confused now.

Can you link such threads?
Afaik you can't assume the ap is even by default through scaling chains, but you're allowed to make a rough estimation.
Like, it's totally allowed by wiki rules to give the + signs, or even enter another tier, you you're quite stronger than a character whose AP is already at the limit of their tier.

I honestly doubt that, I see no reason why we'll just magically assume he'll be able to understand his opponent's fighting style, unlike Jin, who has been consistently fighting against dudes who martial arts he has no idea about.

Understanding your opponent's fighting style, or at least trying to do it, is like, basic strategy in any type of fight, and the more intelligent, skilled and experienced you are, the better you can do it.
And it isn't like Oro had prior knowledge of the fighting style of all the opponents he has fought in about 130 years, and the SF world is literally full of people who employ a fighting style that is completely unique to them, those people are constantly fighting weird and esotic opponents, and Oro just outskills even the best like Ryu, whose life mission is to fight against the incredible variety of fighting styles his world has to offer.

snip

What was the strength and speed difference between Jin and said opponents? And did he hold back against them?
This is important when analysing someone's skill due to a match.

The other skill feats of him facing and defeating such master martial artists are impressive, of course, but honestly I don't see how they would be better than what Oro has shown or was stated to be.

I'm not sure how any of his attacks would be able to hit Jin when he has an enhanced version of Analytic prediction. He'd know where Oro would attack, move, etc... and he'd be able to attack accordingly. Not to mention the fact that Jin's movement would get smoother, and more experienced as he continues fighting.

Well, this new Perception ability is really broken and would be really a trouble, has it shown any limitations?
I guess this would force Oro to try outlasting Jin, but I'm not sure he'd be able of doing it, despite having higher stamina (at least in relation to sheer time).

Do we assume ki = chi? If so, then I'm not sure if Oro would be able to sense Jin's chi, since he has resistance to Chi sensing, due to having Shadow Chi.
Not to mention, his Chi is ******* weird. It couldn't get analyzed or sensed by martial masters, and the Chaos Demon has an ability that lets him absorb the chi of an opponent, digest it, analyze it, and make a perfect counter to it, but it couldn't do that to Jin's Chi, despite it theoretically being able to adapt to any kind of Chi.

I mean... if there isn't any evidence for him using it on a person, I don't see why we would assume he can? Even if we haven't seen him go all out.

I don't think Oro's ESP would be able to sense it.

People are still made of matter, like stones and such, you can argue it wouldn't be in-character, but I don't think why it shouldn't be possible.
More than that, other SF telekinesis users (Bison, Rose, Menat..) have shown to be able to affect other people, and Oro is stated to having mastered the art of telekinesis. They use Psycho and Soul power, but as Oro explained, they are just other forms of a greater force known as Ki, so his telekinesis should be akin to theirs.
And yes, we can't assume he'd do it, but I wouldn't exclude it as a possibility.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Can you link such threads?
Afaik you can't assume the ap is even by default through scaling chains, but you're allowed to make a rough estimation.
Like, it's totally allowed by wiki rules to give the + signs, or even enter another tier, you you're quite stronger than a character whose AP is already at the limit of their tier.

I asked a question here, and said that scaling chain doesn't matter if an opponent has a value in AP.

Another thread also asking the same question with AP.

Granted, I don't recall any staff members commenting on it, so a new thread could be made.

Understanding your opponent's fighting style, or at least trying to do it, is like, basic strategy in any type of fight, and the more intelligent, skilled and experienced you are, the better you can do it.
And it isn't like Oro had prior knowledge of the fighting style of all the opponents he has fought in about 130 years, and the SF world is literally full of people who employ a fighting style that is completely unique to them, those people are constantly fighting weird and esotic opponents, and Oro just outskills even the best like Ryu, whose life mission is to fight against the incredible variety of fighting styles his world has to offer.

I mean, so is Jin? Everyone and their mother in LOTNB, just like street fighter, run on skill. There are countless martial arts, and pretty much every opponent Jin fought has a different martial art entirely than the opponent before him.

Not to mention the fact that I even doubt he'll be able to do that, considering LOTNB has a shit ton of different martial arts, Jo Cheon Woo, one of the best martial art masters in the entire world, couldn't know Jin's fighting style, not even being able to analyze it, saying it was a weird martial arts.

What was the strength and speed difference between Jin and said opponents? And did he hold back against them?
This is important when analysing someone's skill due to a match.

A number isn't given, however, Jin was being slowed, and was stated that a single direct hit would kill him.

He got hit a few times before against him, those weren't direct hits, and measly small attacks he barely dodged.

However, after gaining his analytic shit, he was able to dodge and parry every single attack from him, even stating that he dodged a rain of death, comparing it to a thunderstorm.

Stating how just like a normal human cannot run through a thunderstorm without getting hit, Jin shouldn't be able to run through that rain of death without getting hit, and yet he dodged everything despite being slowed and carrying someone on his back.

The other skill feats of him facing and defeating such master martial artists are impressive, of course, but honestly I don't see how they would be better than what Oro has shown or was stated to be.

I mean, I don't know how the fights in street fighters go, since you said that they all have unique martial arts, but so does LOTNB, and he fodderized them all despite not knowing the techniques.

And this entire world runs on skill. Also, as I showed you with my example with Mu-Sang, even a normal martial art expert could fodderize the other in terms of skill, despite Mu-Sang already mastering a martial art, although it wasn't that strong.

Besides the fact that he was more skilled than Dam, who could defeat 100 martial artists, all of whom have different martial arts, and he apparently fodderized all of them.

I really don't know the capabilities of SF, though. I would appreciate some skill feats.

Well, this new Perception ability is really broken and would be really a trouble, has it shown any limitations?
I guess this would force Oro to try outlasting Jin, but I'm not sure he'd be able of doing it, despite having higher stamina (at least in relation to sheer time).

Currently, it hasn't shown a limit. Though, the only reason why Jin even eventually lost was because he already used taxing attacks that destroyed his internal organs, and as such was getting worse and worse.

However, that is pre-timeskip, post-timeskip already mastered all of the abilities, not showing a single injury when he uses them.

I don't think Oro's ESP would be able to sense it.

Then that's a problem, because from what I'm seeing on Oro's page, he seems to underestimate people, and considering he can't gauge how strong Jin is, then Jin would likely one or two attacks, which would heavily damage him.

 

[SamanPatou]

I asked a question here, and said that scaling chain doesn't matter if an opponent has a value in AP.

Another thread also asking the same question with AP.

Going by the replies I feel it doesn't differ too much from what I've said, you can't say that the character who starts from a lower value is necessarily stronger, but it can be argued the gap isn't too big, because we totally do upscaling for wiki purposes, although we are (rightfully) strict with it, but vs matches are basically a game where we set arbitrary values as rules, and there are and have been hundreds of vs threads where AP is compared through scaling chains.

Not to mention the fact that I even doubt he'll be able to do that, considering LOTNB has a shit ton of different martial arts, Jo Cheon Woo, one of the best martial art masters in the entire world, couldn't know Jin's fighting style, not even being able to analyze it, saying it was a weird martial arts.

That depends of that master martial artist's skill in analysing others tbh.

I really don't know the capabilities of SF, though. I would appreciate some skill feats.

I tried my best with writing the intelligence sections of the characters (although I'm still planning to improve them) so it's best if you just go through those of various characters. (all the stuff Oro has displayed, is already written on this thead).

Then that's a problem, because from what I'm seeing on Oro's page, he seems to underestimate people, and considering he can't gauge how strong Jin is, then Jin would likely one or two attacks, which would heavily damage him.

He doesn't underestimate others, he tries to give them a chance because he's monstruosly strong and skilled for every other fighter in the verse, but he can recognize a talented fighter when he sees one, as he did with Ryu and Akuma, he's just as or even more wise than Dhalsim.
I also believe that not feeling the ki of his opponent would already alarm him, and make him understand he hasn't an ordinary person before him.
Oro can actually become dead serious in an instant if he wants, unleashing his own Satsui no Hado, which means he's going for the kill as soon as possible, but we haven't seen much about it.

A number isn't given, however, Jin was being slowed, and was stated that a single direct hit would kill him.
However, after gaining his analytic shit, he was able to dodge and parry every single attack from him, even stating that he dodged a rain of death, comparing it to a thunderstorm.
Stating how just like a normal human cannot run through a thunderstorm without getting hit, Jin shouldn't be able to run through that rain of death without getting hit, and yet he dodged everything despite being slowed and carrying someone on his back.

However, that is pre-timeskip, post-timeskip already mastered all of the abilities, not showing a single injury when he uses them.

Rough skill aside, I believe this would be the major problem, since Jin is apparently going to dodge everything Oro throws at it, that analytical prediction is borderline ESP, pretty crazy tbh, considering he also gets faster.
At this level, skill is almost irrelevant, unless you can actually counter such levels of prediction.

Considering that Oro would need to play the distance since he's fighting a skilled swordsman who can basically dodge everything, the only thing that is left him is to try to outlast Jin with flight or telekinesis, but both things aren't sure to happen.
Jin's puppeteer sword and hundreds of meters of range are also counters to this strategy.


Despite still believing that Jin's martial arts feats aren't enough to put him above Oro in terms of skill, his prediction is just too broken, especially if backed up by reactive speed, paralyzing sword, range and puppeteer sword would make his victory the most likely one.

 

[Rikimarox2]

About the ap

Then I'm honestly not sure. I'm willing to make a new thread for it, tbh.

Alarming Oro due to Jin not having Ki.

A minor correction here, he does show a bi of Ki so people don't think he's suspicious or smth. In fact he does that for the exact scenario u just said.

Heres the scan:

"The truth was, Jin Mu-Won’s shadow chi was nigh undetectable by normal methods. All the chi that Gong-Son Chang could sense, was what he had deliberately allowed him to sense. He felt that as a martial artist, having no chi at all was abnormal, so he’d usually emit a little bit of “chi” for other people to detect. The chi he emitted was just enough that people would not suspect him of hiding his true strength, and yet weak enough that most would write him off as just another third-rate martial artist."

Anyways, I still genuinely believe Jin is more skilled, but aside from that, if people think he's too OP due to analytical predictions, then I guess we can just remove from the tournament. Gotta wait for op.

If it wasn't obvious already, I'm voting Jin.

 

[SamanPatou]

His analytical prediction can be bypassed with the right abilities, it's just that Oro doesn't possess them, or at least hasn't shown enough to assume he would use his best tools in a meaningful way against such opponent.

I think he's fine to stay, but yeah, let's wait for others' opinions.

 

[First_Witch]

Sion would fly before Jin does. I have set the power level bar with Sion, so Jin is obviously not too much.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Ah right, Sion is a thing.

****.

 

[First_Witch]

Despite still believing that Jin's martial arts feats aren't enough to put him above Oro in terms of skill, his prediction is just too broken, especially if backed up by reactive speed, paralyzing sword, range and puppeteer sword would make his victory the most likely one.

Is this your final answer? We havent even reach the 1 million dollar question!

 

[SamanPatou]

If more people want to intervene, they're welcome, I feel I've said eveything I had to say.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Alrighty then, we currently have 2 votes for Jin. I assume you also vote for Jin, or you just won't vote?

 

[SamanPatou]

I vote for Jin, yes.