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Help with Borderlands revisions.

KarmodF

KarmodF

2,235
326
So, BL3 is around the corner and our pages could use some quality improvements so we can create BL3 pages with no problem, mostl of the problem comes from some bad format, tiering and hax.

For example, all the characters have listed some elemental abilities coming from weaponry, when it could be simplified as Elemental Manipulation (Incendiary, Shock, Explosive (?), Corrosive (?) & Slag) The later boost damage against enemies which could be: Damage Boost or Statistics Reduction depending on the interpretation, but the former is most likely, another noteworthy thing about Slag is that in conjunction with a Jabber's poisonous gland it can create a toxin able to kill a Planet-sized creature. Pre-Sequel obviosuly have Ice Manipulation and could have Absolute Zero with the weapon of the same name, tough we only have the name and its description which aren super clear on what it does.

In terms of tiering, its said that The Destroyer was able to consume the universe, but this is quite a vague statement, however, in the Pre-Sequel is said that its eye, Helio's cannon, could destroy Elpis, Elpis being Pandora's moon, various shots from the Destroyer's eye we're able to penetrate its core, worth to mention that this was just the eye being force to shoot, not the Destroyer itself, it was also able to create a mini-black hole/singularity when charged with Slag, but this ultimately destroyed it.

I remember both the Warrior and Destroyer having a lot of statements saying that they could wipe out all life on Pandora and destroy the Planet, but I havent found the evidence and it is most likely very sparce.

So, we have High 7-C for early game char. able to defeat Loader-bots, them being as fodder as they can get, the middle-game Vault Hunters could scale to BNK3R being able to lift entire continents, the calc. on Kal's blog from a Naruto Forums guy puts him around 6-A, 6-A+ to High 6-A, which would be quite consistent with the Destroyer's eye destroying Elpis and them being able to wipe out life on the Planet and even destroying it.

  • The rest of the calcs. werent accepted by Bambu, so dont ask why I didnt mentioned them.
BL1 Vault hunters, BL2 VH, BLPre-Sequel and even the Tales from the BL mecha could scale to each one's final boss being a Vault Keeper and BL3 char. would most likely scale to them, same with other characters and bosses, like Badassasaurus, yes, thats a thing.

Nothing more or less to add here, any type of feedback would be apreciatted.

More stuff to discuss:

  • Lilith traveling from a Planet to a Moon.
  • The Destroyer can eat stars.
 
I suppose that this seems to make sense, but you should ask the other members listed in the Borderlands verse page to comment here.
 
Damage Boost works for Slag. Ice Manip works for anyone in Pre-Sequel (upgrade for Nisha, my back-up wife if Lilith falls)

The Destroyer... I dunno. It didn't destroy Elpis with a single shot so it is sub-moon level. Black hole we don't know tons about that so again, IDK. Ditto for universe. Even a small fraction of moon-level would be High 6-A so I guess that works for the eye. I will say that if we decide the Destroyer has like Tier 3/2 AP, it shouldn't scale to Vault Hunters or Dura. That happened so vaguely it could be the result of any number of possible explanations- including that if it did manage this, it might just be through Slag upgrades. Who knows.

Either way they obviously have the potential to do so. The eye was amplified by Helios' stuff but it was still piercing through the moon a lot.

As for High 6-A scaling... iffy. The Warrior and Destroyer statements aren't here, the Destroyer's eye was amplified when it was doing it's High 6-A feat and even then Jack seemed to assume it would kill them. Why do they scale to Bunker (forgive me for writing in human speak, for I have sinned) stuff? I don't remember that.
 
I feel like it would be good to stay with High 6-A EoG VH and Vault Guardians, until some better feats and statements are found. Since Pandora is most likely bigger than earth those planet statements and feats could be anywhere from 5-B+ to 5-A or higher.

The Universe statment could work for a likely higher/far higher since its super vague and seeing how a black hole the size of a palm is around 5-A, the one he created while boosted with Slag would be very high and would have little scaling support, but the Elpis moonshots he did through the game were while he wasnt boosted, and, well, as a single eye, forced to fire upon, so yeah, High 6-A.

The 6-A/High 6-A Mid-Game comes from BNK3R since he is said to have an arsenal able to "level a continent" as stated in the blog and since Jack would have obviously used the best of the best in terms of tech. to defend Angel it doesnt seem outlierish looking how he one-shotted Roland and fought against BL2 VH at the end of the game, meaning that his tech. is consistently around Vault guardian level, but without the same destructive potential.

Hopefully I can find those statements, but that means replaying BL2 and maybe BL1 and Pre-Sequel to round it up, I would be firstly playing Tales from the BLs since I am very hooked up and it has some potential since Gortys is giant ******* mech that fights another Vault Guardian which evades light based attacks.

Edit: I think they are called vault keepers but who cares honestly.

For slag, it could possibly have some poisonous effect due to its combination with the Jabber being able to make a posion able to kill Planet-sized monsters, which means weapons like the Conference Call that rain bullets of slag are quite op when it comes to poison hax.
 
That... High 6-A scaling doesn't work for me tbh. "He would obviously use his best stuff to defend" yeah but no? Like first off it's borderlands so common sense is right out the window, he uses like 9-A at best psychos to try to off the High 7-C Vault Hunters in the beginning of the game.

So Bunker scaling is bunk. er. The destroyer and the warrior never did anything like that during the fight, and their High 6-A feats are either vague or done while amplified and controlled. I'd be fine with considering Slag a poison-equivalent.
 
He doesnt send psychos, he uses the Loaderbots, Constructors, Heavy weaponry machines (Uranus & Saturn), etc... BNK3R was made to defend the thing he most loved and needed, as Angel (His daughter) and he needed her to open the Vault Key which was his main objective through the series.

I get that Warrior and Destroyer didnt show any notable feats in their battles, but thats mostly because they were short lived due to the VH defeating them as soon as possible and the Moon penetration feat was done while the eye wasnt boosted.
 
...no. On the train. Zer0 and all of those fun fellows. Those are psychos. So he clearly is inconsistent in who he sends to do things. We don't see them fight Bunker stuff, so no.

I agree, which is why it is too vague to use. The High 6-A feat for the Eye of Helios was indeed with Destroyer's eye but it was assisted by the rest of Helios' weaponry, Jack flat out states that.
 
...and psychos. So again. Inconsistent.

Here.
 
The ones on the beggining have nothing to do with Hyperion tho, they just happend to crash there, the ones aboard (The Engineers and Loaderbots) are Hyperion manufactured, but I feel like we are just derailing the main point, the BNK3R's feat of leveling a continent would still scale to them since they fought him.

Mr. Bambu said:
Here.
Click to expand...
Oh shit, never notice that, but he saids that he boosted the eye tenfold, so it would technically still be around 6-A power unboosted, right?
 
Or it could be something else. Such as increasing its actual energy source tenfold. As for BNK3R. My issue is that it is an exaggeration. Pretty obviously, actually. The line right after it says "you can't possibly do the thing" when you then go and set it up so you can do the thing you couldn't possibly do. I don't remember anything else suggesting a continent level feat.
 
Gotta agree that the eye's boost is quite open to interpretation, but idk, still feel thats too early to throw the feat out the window because of said boost.

As for BNK3R, I get that Borderlands doesnt take itself too seriously, but honestly it wouldnt be too big of a strech,as some of the statments and even said Destroyer feat seem to support it a tad bit and seeing how High 7-C is as fodder as it wouldnt be such a big outlier or anything.

Would be continue debating and asking some users to check
 
I don't think it's a huge outlier, I just think it isn't solid enough to use as an update. Feels like Destroyer/Warrior are too vague and the BNK3R feat is really just... a momentary description of something impossible to do. Which we then do. Hyperbole.
 
Would wait for tomorrow to ask other users to see what they think about the topics, in the meanwhile I would like to add a section on the profiles mentioning the unique, legendary and superior rarity weaponry, alongside the manufaturers and their quirks, so they have a more stablished weaponry for them.

Btw Pandora has a 90 hour day-night cycle.
 
That would work, could help people understand until the new game comes out with its like trillions of weaponry. Should also mention the Grinder, maybe? Since that tends to make new/better stuff.
 
So have you reached a consensus here?
 
No, you can unfollow the thread and we can remind you later to see what you think about the changes.
 
Everything thats been discussed and is in the OP so far seem goods to me.

As Bambi said some of the Bunker stuff seems a bit vague and open to interpretation but side that everything else seems good.
 
Welp, so we need some feats, I can vaguely remember any straight feats to scale EoG characters, at least we could give them the: likely far higher coming from the devourer having the power to consume the unvierse.
 
I can agree to that at the very least, ye
 
So, by far the best speed feat would scale to the Traveler's reaction and most likely EoG BL2 VH possibly the rest of EoG VH, etc...
 
I remember a lot of Planet and Multi-Continental statements for the Vault Keepers in BL1, BL2 and BLPre-Sequel, but I lack the scans and Bambu prefers some feats before any notable upgrade.
 
Enter the Gungeon is Tier 4 for 2 or 3 weapon statements and boss lore, with the god tier scaling to visible backdrops of stars. No misconceptions, my young friend.

As for the Destroyer stuff... would we even scale? I seem to remember dialogue saying the Destroyer was super weak when the vault hunters fought it, with people saying it was vulnerable while in that form.
 
While the Destroyer stuff is a bit difficult to scale to, there are some other feats that can be analyzed from 3, including:

Amara reacting to and dodging either an AR or SMG round from close range: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXwVI4Cl2KU&t=58s (from 2:07-2:09)

Tyreen reacting fast enough to a grenade going off in her face to contain the explosion with her Siren powers

Tyreen and Troy absorbing enough energy from humans to turn them into ash

Maya lifting a stone door with her powers when boosted by Eridium


There's another feat I'd like to mention that I don't think was put into profiles, but it should connect to BL3 VH profiles.

So in Pre-Sequel, the VHs arrive on Elpis by being put into a shipping container and being shot out of the moonshot cannon. We know how fast that thing fires Loaders from the calc used to find their durability and shipping containers like that are fired at similar speeds, as was shown in one Borderlands 2 sidequest in Thousand Cuts where a beacon was used to call one down.

The main crux of this argument is that canonically, I don't think any of the VHs in that container had a shield at that point, they got most of their equipment after meeting up with Janey. If that is true, then each of those VHs took the force of that landing by themselves. With that, the durability of the VH without equipment can be boosted based on that. BL3 VHs go through something similar when using the drop pod to go down to new planets (Ellie said the pod was barely safe and they complained about the rough ride after they landed on Promethea), so it should definitely connect.

If the Elpis VHs had shields when they were launched, then we can always check when they survived their rocket to Helios Station crashing and exploding during the intro to Pre-Sequel because they definitely didn't have shields then.
 
@Sigurd

Yes she did, but Elpis was being pulled closer to Pandora to open up the Great Vault, to such an extent that we don't know how close it actually was. Unless we know how big Elpis is and can do some fancy trig, we don't know how far she flew
 
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