Hello Heisenberg, I Want To Play A Game (GRACE)

[RanaProGamer]

Walter White wakes up at his place, realizing Skyler has gone to work and Jr has gone to school. He then finds an unfamiliar tape recorder in his house and decides to play it.

Jigsaw: Hello Walter White, or as they call you in the streets, Heisenberg. You may not know me but I know you. I want to play a game. In order to provide for your family, you went down the road of drug trafficking even when your friends and family asked to help and lived your days endangering yourself and your family. You were blessed with the knowledge to help people but only used that knowledge for committing crimes. I want you to make a choice. You have 7 days to turn yourself in and atone for your sins. Time is not on your side, for when the 7 days are over and you chose not to follow the rules, I will personally kill you myself. Live or die, make your choice. Let the games begin.

Walter decides that he is not going to give and preps to face and kill Jigsaw.

Both Walt and John have 7 days of prep.

Both are in their prime.

Game Over:

Say My Name:

 

[Kidkinsey]

Does john have help from mark or amanda? Because if its after movie 1 he really can't do anything himself iirc

 

[RanaProGamer]

Does john have help from mark or amanda? Because if its after movie 1 he really can't do anything himself iirc

Amanda and Mark were already his apprentices in his prime IIRC. But no outside help for this match.

 

[Kidkinsey]

They were but he still helped out a bit before he was wheelchair bound/bedridden. Anyways if its just john Id still give him the edge since he is more stealthy and likely set up cameras in his house

 

[Galvino]

Since Mike bugged Walter's house that one time and how Hank bugged Walter's car and Walter still figured out he did, then it's reasonable to say that Walter would assume his house got bugged or something since the note was left in his house.

 

[Galvino]

Walter would probably come up with some sort of plan (like make a bomb or god knows) or hire people to search for Jigsaw but do all this in a place he knows that is safe where Walter could hide.

 

[BigSmoke4269]

since john is coming to walt, i don't see what's stopping walt from getting a hazmat suit and filling the house with phosphine gas when john comes, or setting up pipe bombs around the house, or just getting a gun and shooting him to death.

 

[Moonshadow137]

I mean, John is physically much superior to Walter (10-A vs 10-B), and his durability is through the roof by comparison. Even if Walter could get a gun, it might not be enough to kill John if he doesn't get a head-shot (which might be difficult if he is being rushed by John). If the match comes down to 1v1, Kramer takes this easily.

Anyway, with one week to prepare I can easily see him figuring out some of Heisenberg's possible strategies. His whole deal in the movies is knowing what makes people tick, what people may or may not do to survive, and knowing their background. It's not hard to believe he could get his hand on a gas-mask of sorts, or a ballistic vest for safety, and also a gun to shoot Walter down.

With enough preparation, he might be able to sneak into Walter's house without being noticed (as he have done before) and catch him off guard, or even slowly fill the house with that neurotoxic poison from Saw II.

Many wincons in his favour, I see Kramer taking this more times than not.

 

[BigSmoke4269]

walt is currently being upgraded to 10-A

also, walts strategies wouldn’t be easy to predict. usually he tries to poison his target first, but when he can’t do that (which is the case here), his methods are extremely unpredictable. john might know what makes walt tick, but so did the breaking bad writers, who had to spend weeks trying to come up with how walt would get out of certain situations. if it took a group of actual breaking bad writers several weeks to predict what walt would do, i really don’t see how kramer would figure it out in one week.

 

[Moonshadow137]

Even if he gets upgraded, John has 9-C durability and probably is a higher 10-A too, so Walter still loses hth.

Also, I don't think being a hard character to write should give Walter some kind of special edge in the fight. I mean, from the look of it it's just discovery writing shenanigans, so it shouldn't really scale to him in any kind of power or something like that. Does he have any in-universe statements to back this unpredictability? Haven't watched BB in a while.

Anyway, if his go-to option is to poison people, and it fails, I guess he gets killed by one of John's wincons, as said before.

 

[Comiphorous]

cancer FRA

wait.

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

cancer FRA

wait.

Hey wait a minute

 

[BigSmoke4269]

Also, I don't think being a hard character to write should give Walter some kind of special edge in the fight. I mean, from the look of it it's just discovery writing shenanigans, so it shouldn't really scale to him in any kind of power or something like that. Does he have any in-universe statements to back this unpredictability?

here

Anyway, if his go-to option is to poison people, and it fails, I guess he gets killed by one of John's wincons, as said before.

he has no way of poisoning kramer so he probably wouldn't even go for that in the first place

 

[Moonshadow137]

he has no way of poisoning kramer so he probably wouldn't even go for that in the first place

But how would he know he has no way of poisoning John?

 

[BigSmoke4269]

walt has no way of knowing where john is, let alone getting to him and poisoning him. all he can do is prepare for john to come to him.

 

[Moonshadow137]

since john is coming to walt, i don't see what's stopping walt from getting a hazmat suit and filling the house with phosphine gas when john comes

What about this though?

 

[BigSmoke4269]

i'm not sure if he'd do that specifically. he's only done it once, and that was on the first episode.

 

[SlendVeny]

Walter White

 

[BigSmoke4269]

so true

 

[SlendVeny]

Walter White

Everyone's gone silent after this argument.

 

[Galvino]

I don't know much about jigsaw, but I know a lot of Walter's strength, at least later on in the series, is the people who help him like Jessie, Saul, Mike, the Nazi gang and what not. Without them, Walt is pretty nerfed.

However, since Walter knows his house could be bugged (fra), I think Walt would simply find some abandoned warehouse or something, similar to an area where he was hiding from Gus Fring in "Face Off", and set up a plan there. If we only going by what he already did in the series, his best bet is using the bomb he used against Gus and hide in the area and wait for jigsaw to come. Walter will also grab the tape recorder from his house and record a message telling jigsaw to come to the area he's hiding in and then put the tape recorder back at his house. After waiting a week, Walt will be watching the area from far away, with binoculars, and remotely blow the place sky high when jigsaw arrives. He could also use that M60 machine gun and do the same thing, though I think he would have to be closer to the area to activate it. By the OP's rules, jigsaw can't send someone to area for him and will be forced to go over there himself, for the plot. Then boom, kramer will come out with half his face blown off and die.

 

[Baken384]

Breaking Bad Season 4>Breaking Bad Season 5 FRA

 

[RanaProGamer]

This is surprisingly an even back and forth debate.

 

[SlendVeny]

Walter White

No one's been able to counter this point.

 

[Moonshadow137]

However, since Walter knows his house could be bugged (fra), I think Walt would simply find some abandoned warehouse or something, similar to an area where he was hiding from Gus Fring in "Face Off", and set up a plan there.

I mean, he's been evading and tricking the police for so long most people didn't even know how to navigate around their own homes after he did his stuff, detectives such as Mark Hoffman and his crew (apart from several other specialists) included. An example is when he was streaming a tape recording from a mansion and no one in the massive crew could figure out his trickery until it was too late.

And regardless of whether he can actually find out if his home was bugged, Kramer would most likely notice something was wrong once he watched the camera feed. If he found that message, he would try and bug the place too before the fight, and if Walter wasn't there, he wouldn't barge in blindly; remember, his searching skills are second to none, he would probably already have a very good overview on Walter's personality, degree(s) and whatnot by that point (7 full days, he's done more in less) and he isn't one to underestimate his opponents. No way he's going somewhere his enemy told him to go without checking for traps and stuff first. It's his strong suit after all.

 

[SlendVeny]

I mean, he's been evading and tricking the police for so long most people didn't even know how to navigate around their own homes after he did his stuff, detectives such as Mark Hoffman and his crew (apart from several other specialists) included. An example is when he was streaming a tape recording from a mansion and no one in the massive crew could figure out his trickery until it was too late.

And regardless of whether he can actually find out if his home was bugged, Kramer would most likely notice something was wrong once he watched the camera feed. If Walter wasn't home, he wouldn't barge in blindly; remember, his searching skills are second to none, he would probably already have a very good overview on Walter's personality, degree(s) and whatnot by that point (7 full days, he's done more in less) and he isn't one to underestimate his opponents.

What if he gets him addicted to meth?

 

[Mapl3Sy4up]

What if he gets him addicted to meth?

Well then he’s f*****

 

[SlendVeny]

Well then he’s f*****

Methjutsu GG

 

[BigSmoke4269]

walt gets in his car and runs john over as soon as he comes to his house gg

 

[SlendVeny]

Methjutsu GG

Aww, forgot the SAWsengan

 

[BigSmoke4269]

so whats stopping walt from just shooting john

 

[Moonshadow137]

so whats stopping walt from just shooting john

And what stops John from just shooting back? Also John has survived shotgun shots before with little effect and would certainly be wearing a ballistic vest, so shooting might not mean instant-kill

 

[Moonshadow137]

Besides, John's a master in stealth and hiding, using the terrain to his advantage is kinda his whole thing when abducting people. He wouls be hard to pin down

 

[Galvino]

I mean, he's been evading and tricking the police for so long most people didn't even know how to navigate around their own homes after he did his stuff, detectives such as Mark Hoffman and his crew (apart from several other specialists) included. An example is when he was streaming a tape recording from a mansion and no one in the massive crew could figure out his trickery until it was too late.

Walter and Gus tricked the police many many times and even Hank, who is a really great detective himself who was on Walt's ass the whole series, still got fooled by Walt and Gus. Only reason Hank even caught on to Gus Fring's operation is because of the whole Gale situation where Jessie killed him and thus left his lab notes at his apartment for the police to find (also Walter basically told Hank that Gale wasn't the real Heisenberg and thus helped out Hank even more). Anyway, point is, kramer tricking Mark and some other equally or less intelligent cops isn't much of a feat compared to Walter tricking the entire ABQ DEA department many times right in front of their faces, even Hank admits Walter is the smartest person he's ever met and Hank met Gus Fring!

And regardless of whether he can actually find out if his home was bugged, Kramer would most likely notice something was wrong once he watched the camera feed. If he found that message, he would try and bug the place too before the fight, and if Walter wasn't there, he wouldn't barge in blindly;

Are you talking about the abandoned place I brought up? How would Kramer ever know of that location? Walter only visited that place once in season 4 and was hiding from Gus Fring of all people, so idk how Kramer would find him. Also according to the OP, Kramer wouldn't do anything until after the 7 days are up. Meaning Walter is already gonna have the place rigged with the bomb and waiting for Kramer to arrive. Like I said, due to the OP, the plot is against Kramer here since Kramer is forced to confront Walter head on after the 7 days.

remember, his searching skills are second to none, he would probably already have a very good overview on Walter's personality, degree(s) and whatnot by that point (7 full days, he's done more in less) and he isn't one to underestimate his opponents. No way he's going somewhere his enemy told him to go without checking for traps and stuff first. It's his strong suit after all.

Gus Fring literally investigates everyone he works with and knew everything about Walter as well, but, yet, Walter still managed to kill him anyway. He killed Gus due to help of course but then again Gus had help too, and still lost.

 

[Moonshadow137]

Also according to the OP, Kramer wouldn't do anything until after the 7 days are up. Meaning Walter is already gonna have the place rigged with the bomb and waiting for Kramer to arrive. Like I said, due to the OP, the plot is against Kramer here since Kramer is forced to confront Walter head on after the 7 days.

That doesn't seem to make sense, he gave one week prep time for both of them.

Are you talking about the abandoned place I brought up?

I'm talking about that place you said Walter would tell Kramer to go to, no way he would barge in blind like that.

 

[BigSmoke4269]

And what stops John from just shooting back?

i don’t think he has as much experience with weapons

Also John has survived shotgun shots before with little effect and would certainly be wearing a ballistic vest, so shooting might not mean instant-kill

walt goes for the head usually

 

[Moonshadow137]

walt goes for the head usually

I imagine he does, yes, but it's not that easy to hit a moving target in the head, specially someone dressed up as a creepy as f*** pig who loves hiding around corners and jumpscaring people, so just shooting is probably not going to do that much

 

[Galvino]

That doesn't seem to make sense, he gave one week prep time for both of them.

Time is not on your side, for when the 7 days are over and you chose not to follow the rules, I will personally kill you myself.

Kramer can prep sure, but it's not gonna help when he is the one that is doing the confronting and not Walt. All Walt has to is camp and wait, meanwhile Kramer said he will personally try to kill Walt himself. Walter has no reason to risk himself and go after Kramer, meanwhile, Kramer basically said he will risk himself. He will do the same strat he did against Gus and camp and wait for the right moment.

I'm talking about that place you said Walter would tell Kramer to go to, no way he would barge in blind like that.

If you can bring up a strat that kramer can do, go ahead but I don't see what a guy with a bunch of quirky traps is gonna do when he is the one going after Walter himself. It seems far more likely, according to the premise of the OP, that Kramer will take the initiative. I agree, under a different premise, nobody with a brain would go in blindly but the OP is against kramer on this one. I will admit that if Walter was the one that said he's going after Kramer in the OP, then I would agree Walter is at a severe disadvantage, however Walter has the advantage in this situation.

 

[Moonshadow137]

I agree, under a different premise, nobody with a brain would go in blindly but the OP is against kramer on this one. I will admit that if Walter was the one that said he's going after Kramer in the OP, then I would agree Walter is at a severe disadvantage, however Walter has the advantage in this situation.

I'm pretty sure the OP cannot overule character personality like that, otherwise the match can't be added. Saying "I'll personally kill you myself" is different from "I'll be a madman and enter this place the guy called me to without a bit of planning"

Also pardon me but if OP didn't specify then SBA should apply for things like starting distance, line of sight and the likes, so I'm not sure if "camping" is actually valid, as per Vs Battles rules I mean

 

[Galvino]

"I'll be a madman and enter this place the guy called me to without a bit of planning"

I brought up a plan for Walt, but since idk much about Kramer, it's up to someone else to bring up a plan Kramer could do. I already refuted the point of kramer planting bugs in the new location. He would have no idea where Walt went and wouldn't know of this hidden location until after Walt told him to go to it. Maybe Kramer can just wait out Walt and watch the location with his own binoculars lol, idk. They're gonna be there a while.