Heisenberg Vs The Screenslaver

[DimeUhDozen]

Fair, if you’d given me some time I’d probably thought of it eventually tho lol. I still think she’d depend more so on screens, and I highly doubt she’d keep a time bomb on her plane when it could be utilized on the ground/without prior knowledge I doubt she’d think to keep her time bombs in the air to utilize it for this specific moment.

True, but this is accounting for the turn of events you've listed: The magnets take out the screens --> Evelyn uses her explosives. This is the next stage in her response to Walt's actions. And I doubt that Evelyn would restrict the amount of explosives she has solely to the ground. She'll have them on the ground and the air considering she'd be ****** without weaponry on both sides. Especially for herself.

What happens is:

The magnets pull in the goggles and the screens but pull in the explosives in the process, blowing them up. Evelyn then chooses to bomb him from above and keeps bombing him with the choppers she has and the plane as a last resort. And if she should ever run out of bombs, THEN they go kamikaze.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

True, but this is accounting for the turn of events you've listed: The magnets take out the screens --> Evelyn uses her explosives. This is the next stage in her response to Walt's actions. And I doubt that Evelyn would restrict the amount of explosives she has solely to the ground. She'll have them on the ground and the air considering she'd be ****** without weaponry on both sides. Especially for herself.

I’m iffy on if she would even think about keeping one on the plane. I can agree to the time bombs being used, but the one time she used it was for a set up, with that as a basis, I’d presume she’d rig something only for it to be magnetized and not go off for another 5 minutes or whatever. Hell she’d probably waste her choppers on it due to the time bombs not going off fast enough. We also have to take into consideration that after the magnets, they’d have to deal with rigged vehicles and other traps around the park and actually finding Walt. A ton of her resources are going to be used, plus who’s to say that Walt doesn’t scale a building near the park while this is going on and hang out similar to how he camped while waiting for Gus controlling everything from the sidelines. Like I said earlier, she’d depend on her mind control and screens and less on controlling broadcasting or time bombs so Walt should be good for that time being.

Even if you don’t want to believe Walt would leave Central Park, another alternative could be just hiding in a vehicle that’s less noticeable similarly to how he hid in Season 5 in that car. Or he could straight up be hiding in Central Park and having her use up all her resources until she shows herself.

No matter what way you look at it, Walt comes out on top and I just find it highly unlikely that she’d lead with time bombs (that are meant for set ups) when her usual first go to option is sending her henchmen to do her bidding and screens which Walter gets rid of. I’m sure her major investments would be in goggles and screens which Incredibles 2 eludes to whereas Walter is a genius in using chemistry to it’s fullest extent for his benefit, manipulation, and becoming a king pin. Walter is portrayed as a man that will utilize whatever it takes to succeed and truly feel alive whereas Evelyn even tho she willing to do whatever it takes, is a one trick pony specifically looking at mind hax for win cons and stuff like time bombs for set ups.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

I’m iffy on if she would even think about keeping one on the plane. I can agree to the time bombs being used, but the one time she used it was for a set up, with that as a basis, I’d presume she’d rig something only for it to be magnetized and not go off for another 5 minutes or whatever. Hell she’d probably waste her choppers on it due to the time bombs not going off fast enough.

Were you... not listening to the part where I said that timed bombs could be set for... any time? She's not going to use the five minute mark for these specific time bombs because it was originally used to give her pizza guy and Elastigirl enough time to escape. Hell, she could even just not use time bombs because they wouldn't be useful to her in this context compared to just regular detonated bombs.

We also have to take into consideration that after the magnets, they’d have to deal with rigged vehicles and other traps around the park and actually finding Walt. A ton of her resources are going to be used, plus who’s to say that Walt doesn’t scale a building near the park while this is going on and hang out similar to how he camped while waiting for Gus controlling everything from the sidelines. Like I said earlier, she’d depend on her mind control and screens and less on controlling broadcasting or time bombs so Walt should be good for that time being.

Keep in mind, this is Central Park, so she could use the fire from her bombs explosions to spread to the plant-life around him and start a fire since as you can see in normal circumstances, they have that capability. It's something she could easily use to draw Walter out, not to mention making the area smokey and hard to breathe in. An oxygen-based hazard the likes of which she has used on Elastigirl in the past, once again outsmarting a foe stronger than her using her wits. So he would be forced to come out of hiding one way or the other with no real reason to come down at all. If she doesn't have her screens, then why would she rely on them and not switch to her secondary bombing tactic?

Even if you don’t want to believe Walt would leave Central Park, another alternative could be just hiding in a vehicle that’s less noticeable similarly to how he hid in Season 5 in that car. Or he could straight up be hiding in Central Park and having her use up all her resources until she shows herself.

Evelyn isn't stupid. With how crazy prepared he would show himself to be with his own explosives and traps and with the failed attempts by her henchmen, she would realize that going down to meet Walter in person is a bad idea. And Walter would not be able to reach her from the plane. She has every opportunity to keep bombing him even when she doesn't have her screens.

Walter is portrayed as a man that will utilize whatever it takes to succeed and truly feel alive whereas Evelyn even tho she willing to do whatever it takes, is a one trick pony specifically looking at mind hax for win cons and stuff like time bombs for set ups.

The events of Incredibles 2 do not reflect her entire life. That was a few days of research compared to the years she spent as a CEO of one of the most powerful companies in the world, making business decisions and powering through the loss of her own parents in order to rise up as the genius behind the "genius" to a position of great influence, And I doubt that all of that was spent relying on her hypno-tech, which she has never had to use prior to this. So to assume that she would always rely on the screens her whole life and would never use anything but her screens is frankly ridiculous. Walter does not come out on top every time. And I will continue to prove why.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

Were you... not listening to the part where I said that timed bombs could be set for... any time? She's not going to use the five minute mark for these specific time bombs because it was originally used to give her pizza guy and Elastigirl enough time to escape. Hell, she could even just not use time bombs because they wouldn't be useful to her in this context compared to just regular detonated bombs.

Yes, I just find her keeping a weapon that’s specifically used for traps on the ground in the air ridiculous without having any prior knowledge of Walt. She never really used the bomb again after the apartment attack when it could’ve been useful so why should we assume that she’d keep it on hand when we know what she goes for first. And if she has only presented using time bombs on screen (Once I remind you, once) then why should we assume she’d have a regular bomb and can we assume she’d be capable of using something she hasn’t used on screen and wouldn’t even start to lead with at all.

Keep in mind, this is Central Park, so she could use the fire from her bombs explosions to spread to the plant-life around him and start a fire since as you can see in normal circumstances, they have that capability. It's something she could easily use to draw Walter out, not to mention making the area smokey and hard to breathe in. An oxygen-based hazard the likes of which she has used on Elastigirl in the past, once again outsmarting a foe stronger than her using her wits. So he would be forced to come out of hiding one way or the other with no real reason to come down at all. If she doesn't have her screens, then why would she rely on them and not switch to her secondary bombing tactic?

Despite it being a bomb that can catch things on fire that it’d probably take at most a couple of acres of the 2 and a half miles of park (which doesn’t even include the city) Walt has room to roam around. It’d take a while before it engulfed the entire park with smoke, plus Walter has a gas mask that could mayyhbe held with bad fumes tho I personally don’t think it’d get that point in battle. My main point was that she would heavily depend on and invest in screens and mainly goggles, why would the SCREENSLAVER make huge investments in time bombs something she doesn’t even lead with, only used once, and is meant for a timed set up? She wouldn’t be able to switch tactics because she likely wouldn’t be prepared with these such specific circumstances.

Evelyn isn't stupid. With how crazy prepared he would show himself to be with his own explosives and traps and with the failed attempts by her henchmen, she would realize that going down to meet Walter in person is a bad idea. And Walter would not be able to reach her from the plane. She has every opportunity to keep bombing him even when she doesn't have her screens.

I never said she was, I’m saying like I’ve stated a couple of times already, she wouldn’t be prepared to have to use bombs in first place and would have no real choice but to face Walt if she wanted to even stand a chance.

The events of Incredibles 2 do not reflect her entire life. That was a few days of research compared to the years she spent as a CEO of one of the most powerful companies in the world, making business decisions and powering through the loss of her own parents in order to rise up as the genius behind the "genius" to a position of great influence, And I doubt that all of that was spent relying on her hypno-tech, which she has never had to use prior to this. So to assume that she would always rely on the screens her whole life and would never use anything but her screens is frankly ridiculous. Walter does not come out on top every time. And I will continue to prove why.

That is fair in terms of reflecting her whole life but in a fighting scenario, she has only be shown to channel her anger for the parents loss through Screenslaver. Let’s say I challenge you to a gun duel even tho I am the CEO of a company that builds and researches the best technology in the world. In a fight scenario we’ve only ever seen me utilize a gun, and never eluded to using the technology. Same concept here. Whereas Walter channels all of his genius into Heisenberg making him more manipulative yet keeping all his variety of knowledge he has to become a person who can come out on top due to the variety of chemistry knowledge he can put to use. A Jack of all trades when it comes to applying chemistry to a battle scenario vs a one trick pony only utilizing other methods in specific situations is how I see it. Heisenberg simply has just the amount of advantages to come out on top and completely leaving Screenslaver without resources to fight back.

 

[BigSmoke4269]

walter doesnt have prior knowledge so he wouldnt know he has to use magnets, he just gets insta-mind haxxed

 

[BigSmoke4269]

actually does waltuh need to be looking at evelen straight-on in order for her goggles to work? since there's no line of sight and he has stealth mastery, he can probably just shoot her without looking into her eyes. even without prior knowledge, he would want to stay out of her sight

It's something she could easily use to draw Walter out, not to mention making the area smokey and hard to breathe in.

walter cooks meth lol he has plenty of masks to get around that sort of thing

OH THAT'S RIGHT, SHE CAN JUST BOMB HIM FROM THE HELICOPTERS.

i dont think she starts in the air

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

walter doesnt have prior knowledge so he wouldnt know he has to use magnets, he just gets insta-mind haxxed

Like I said earlier, if you had a gigantic magnet and saw a huge park full of screens and were in one of the most screen filled cities in the world, I’d think you’d have a “Ferb I know what we’re going to do today” moment during prep.

Basically what I said above concerning the magnet but agree with everything you said.

Since I’ve gotten no rebuttal to what I said earlier, I’m voting Walter for my reasons and other FRA

 

[BigSmoke4269]

Like I said earlier, if you had a gigantic magnet and saw a huge park full of screens and were in one of the most screen filled cities in the world, I’d think you’d have a “Ferb I know what we’re going to do today” moment during prep.

are you sure that's how prep works? i dont think characters can interact or check up on each other during prep time

 

[BigSmoke4269]

both of you sound extremely biased, btw.

 

[The_Almighty_Wholesome]

are you sure that's how prep works? i dont think characters can interact or check up on each other during prep time

I mean yea I was wrong on that part, but Walt has all equipment and is going into a place where his magnet could be useful.

both of you sound extremely biased, btw.

I just find Screenslavers lights or screens getting a hold of Walt’s eyes dubious when he has obvious counters to it, the fact that the argument for Screenslaver is that she wins via something she wouldn’t lead with normally, and has no reason to hold back during prep. I think Screenslaver has a pretty solid win con otherwise due to “mind hax goes brrr gg” I just find Walt having the high ground in this specific situation and I’m arguing why I think so. I wouldn’t think arguing something in a versus debate that I see from my point of view with evidence to back it up is biased. If I can be proven wrong, I would be more than happy to give Screenslaver a vote.