Heisei Godzilla series upgrade

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

With the upgrades for Showa monsters to Low and then High 4-C I felt need to post the canon match-ups showing that Heisei monsters are consistently stronger than their Showa versions.

Megalon can fight Battra in his larva form and even pierce his armor but would be easily defeated by his Imago form
Databook scan:
Translation:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/632646078893916180/833481671532609566/image0.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/632646078893916180/833481717448048640/image0.png
Battle 3 - Gigan Vs Biollante - Kaiju Heterogenous Martial Arts Battle!? - Both Kaijus that has completely different battle pattern. Biollante's Ivy Attack is useless against Spinning Cutter and Hammer Hand. Gigan has an upper hand at Mobility and could advantagely advance at the beginning of the battle. But, Biolllante was its Vitality. Gigan, who has disadvantage due to its lack of stamina, getting tired at the moment will result Biollante healing its Ivy and damages. and Biolante Sap Special Attack will swooned Gigan. But, that's about Gigan, running away before it happens will be considered as a win; and flew away just like always.
Battle 4 - Megalon Vs Battra - The Showdown between Insect Kaiju Shaking the Underground - Megalon and Battra who could both move the underground with fierce speed. Can Megalon take advantage of tearing the skin of Battra which is like an armor that cannot be destroyed even an inch by a Maser? Rather than that, the defense power of Megalon will likely to be trifled by Battra Prism Ray while possessing(holding?) variety of weapons. Furthermore, while the battle last long, if Battra moved to the adult stage, it will be over for Megalon.
This would mean Battra can scale to At Least Low 4-C

Showa MechaGodzilla is equal or inferior in power to Mecha King Ghidorah but can still possibly damage him.
Databook scan:
Translations:
Battle BATTLE2 Mechagodzilla vs Mecha King Ghidorah Mechanic vs. Mechanic Super Future Battle! Mechagodzilla, which has more weapons than the number of weapons, may be a little more advantageous, although it seems that the power of the beam is almost the same. No. Ghidorah is also worried about the fragility of the living part. You need to be careful about Mechagodzilla's missile weapons. However, Ghidorah is superior in power. However, the battle situation may change. However, after catching it in the Godzilla battle, I was attacked from a close distance and I am in a hurry. It will be painful if there is no preventive measure that makes use of that lesson. Like a weapon Yes
Mainly, "Kasuwamawa Yuuri Shinpai Heyme. First of all, it is the response of intense rays. The power of the beam seems to be almost equal, but Mechagodzilla, which exceeds the number of weapons, may be a little more advantageous. I'm also worried about the fragility of the part. You need to be careful about Mechagodzilla's missile weapons. However, Ghidorah is superior in power. However, in the battle with Godzilla, after being caught, I was attacked from a close distance and I was in a hurry. It would be painful if there was no preventive measure that made use of that lesson. Kure yes
Mecha King Ghidorah>Showa MechaGodzilla who is High 4-C
Mecha King Ghidorah's implied to be an upgrade from Showa King Ghidorah who is also High 4-C at the end of the series

Showa Rodan can damage Heisei Mothra’s wings but would probably lose to her
Databook scan:
Translation:
せんとうこうしゃ怪獣界の制空権をかけた戦いだ。スピード面で勝るのはモスラ。が、もともとやさしい性格のモスラにくらべ、ラドンはかなりの戦闘巧者だ。鋭いくちばしで羽根をキズつけられでもしたらモスラはいっきょに不利になる。りん粉や超音波ビームを駆使してラドンを近づけるな。など

It is a battle for air superiority in the monster world. Mothra is superior in terms of speed. However, compared to Mothra, who has a gentle personality, Radon is a considerable combat expert. Mothra would be at a disadvantage if the feathers were scratched with a sharp beak. Do not bring radon closer by making full use of phosphorus powder or ultrasonic beam. Such
BATTLE5モスラvsラドンちょうおんそくずじょうしとう超音速・頭上の死闘！

BATTLE5 Mothra vs Radon Supersonic Speed, Overhead Death Fight!
Mothra scales to At Least 4-C being stronger than Rodan but he can still damage her

Godzilla, MechaGodzilla, Moguera, SpaceGodzilla, and Destoroyah all upscale.

Supporting evidence: SpaceGodzilla's supernova statement has gotten a new translation "During its rapid evolution it took in some crystalline organisms, and was then flooded with an enormous amount of energy from the explosion of a star, and an unimaginably terrible monster was born, something like that." this also means the "just a theory" excuse would not be applicable
Burning Godzilla's explosion is stated to be the largest release of energy since the Big Bang

Proposal: Upgrade hundred meter monsters to At Least 5-B, possibly Low 4-C/4-C/High 4-C accordingly

 

[Shadyboi0]

100% agree. EDIT, Wouldnt the last statement be higher? Like 4-B?

 

[Hellbeast]

Isn't this cross continuity scaling?

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Isn't this cross continuity scaling?

One continuity led into the other and these matches are posted in canon books so this should be pretty legitimate. It's the same universe just with a timeline reset for the Godzilla saga.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Now i think about it, you could get burning g to 4-B

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

100% agree. EDIT, Wouldnt the last statement be higher? Like 4-B?

Yeah but no one's gonna agree to that.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Yeah but no one's gonna agree to that.

Shit, i would

 

[ZeedKZ]

I also 100% agree with this.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

so the different kaijus get different tiers? or it's just High 4-C?

 

[Arceus0x]

I feel like there is some inconsistent stuff but either way we should call apex here as he is the man the myth and the legend when it comes to goji. I am more interested in the supernova statement tbh.

 

[Arceus0x]

I do feel like more opinions on the translations are needed.

 

[Arceus0x]

I also saw some guy doing some crazy multiplier shiz for heisei godzilla which got into high 5-A and even 4-B somehow. Idk doe i just saw some blogs

 

[TyranoDoom30]

One continuity led into the other and these matches are posted in canon books so this should be pretty legitimate. It's the same universe just with a timeline reset for the Godzilla saga.

also not saying i disagree but they just share one movie in the timeline, which is 54. just because they share one movie doesn't mean all of these movies are canon to each other, according to this i also can claim that GMK is canon because it starts from 54

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah that's what bothers me here

We see Halloween and the Mortal Kombat timelines share media but we don't treat them as interchangeable

 

[Arceus0x]

I believe that the argument here is more of a WoG statement being legitimate rather than trying to prove that both continuities are connected.

For example: Mob being comparable to Tatsumaki was an acceptable example of WoG until it became outdated.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

also not saying i disagree but they just share one movie in the timeline, which is 54. just because they share one movie doesn't mean all of these movies are canon to each other, according to this i also can claim that GMK is canon because it starts from 54

Godzilla vs King Ghidorah explicitly refers to Godzilla as a hero who wouldn't attack Japan, something said in the Showa era and only makes sense there, also that's a false equivalence because they're different Godzillas in GMK. There's also the blatant timeline rewriting in that movie.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

I believe that the argument here is more of a WoG statement being legitimate rather than trying to prove that both continuities are connected.

For example: Mob being comparable to Tatsumaki was an acceptable example of WoG until it became outdated.

Problem is this WAY too consistent.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

I also saw some guy doing some crazy multiplier shiz for heisei godzilla which got into high 5-A and even 4-B somehow. Idk doe i just saw some blogs

Probably me.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah without supporting evidence I don't think this should be used. Cross canon scaling is usually not allowed unless they've interacted in the work itself or draw from the same canon source like with Halloween.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Godzilla vs King Ghidorah explicitly refers to Godzilla as a hero who wouldn't attack Japan, something said in the Showa era and only makes sense there

that's a non-sequitur, just because they're heroes (tho Heisei is more of an anti-hero), doesn't mean that they're on the same universe

also that's a false equivalence because they're different Godzillas in GMK

so is Heisei and 54 all different versions

There's also the blatant timeline rewriting in that movie.

to G85 and GvB, all of which ignore all the events of the showa era and just go from 54. (plus 54 Godzilla still exists in the modified timeline)

 

[Arceus0x]

I am generally more interested in the translation of the supernova statement which seems to be legitimate, we just need a few more opinions

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I am generally more interested in the translation of the supernova statement which seems to be legitimate, we just need a few more opinions

tbh yeah, that is the thing i'm more interested in. plus that strongest energy since the beginning thing

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Yeah the SpaceGodzilla star thing has been confirmed many times in databooks.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

that's a non-sequitur, just because they're heroes (tho Heisei is more of an anti-hero), doesn't mean that they're on the same universe


so is Heisei and 54 all different versions


to G85 and GvB, all of which ignore all the events of the showa era and just go from 54. (plus 54 Godzilla still exists in the modified timeline)

No it's not, the Showa era timeline was blatantly retconned into the Heisei timeline by moving the dinosaur into firing range, something Toho explicitly stated themselves to be the case.

Except there's a canon difference between the two, on screen this is explained.

All events? Not true, just the Godzilla ones. Weapons from the Showa era like maser tanks appear from minute one of Godzilla's new rampage and Moguera still happened, there's also the fact that pre-timeline shift, Godzilla is remembered by the masses as Japan's savior which wouldn't like up with G84 AT ALL.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Yeah without supporting evidence I don't think this should be used. Cross canon scaling is usually not allowed unless they've interacted in the work itself or draw from the same canon source like with Halloween.

This is literally an argument from ignorance and specifically an argument from silence. Arguing that because of the timeline change for some stupid reason this doesn't work. Not to mention category B is LITERALLY what's shown here. The same branching point, only difference is whatever Godzilla was involved in. Weapons developed for non-Godzilla monsters are shown in both series and used later on him, there are many more general comparisons between the two eras in film books and even just anatomy guides.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Also there's more than one timeline anyway so that change doesn't matter
Timeline 1: The Godzillasaurus on Lagos Island is mutated by the H-bomb into Godzilla. In 1990 he is infected by the Anti-Nuclear Energy Bacteria and never recovers. Japan becomes a global superpower and the richest and most powerful nation on Earth by 2204. (1/3)
Timeline 2: The Futurians move the Godzillasaurus off Lagos Island to the Bering Sea, where he is later mutated into Godzilla by a nuclear sub crash. Three Dorats are left behind on Lagos and mutate into King Ghidorah when the H-bomb is tested... (2/3) Godzilla is cured of the ANEB by another nuclear sub and grows to 100 meters, then defeats King Ghidorah and destroys Japan.
Timeline 3: Emmy Kano sends Mecha-King Ghidorah back to 1992 and stops Godzilla from destroying Japan. (3/3).

Furthermore, comparisons like these (when I translate them) should be perfectly valid. Showa and Heisei monsters are compared in anatomy books and film guides. Hell, the Mecha King Ghidorah>Showa scan is from a lore book

Not to mention Toho's shown an official Godzilla evolutionary history showing Showa/Heisei and Millennium Godzilla on the same page

While not direct for the films, Kodansha's manga refers to the Showa era as past stuff for the Heisei series as well

Godzilla and SpaceGodzilla should also be stronger than all prior beings given these statements. So Godzilla likely got stronger even in his base form between MG and SG.
目をする。 ンで結合しあう事によって形成された新生命体である。 その基本的な外見は最強の生物ゴジラを模倣しては いるが、その内部構造はまったく新たな無限の宇宙エネ ルギーを利用する生命システムであり、強いで再生能力、ジェネレー 攻撃性に優れた最強の構造となっている。 The eyes. It is a new life form that was formed by combining with Godzilla. Its basic appearance mimics that of the most powerful creature, Godzilla. The basic appearance mimics that of Godzilla, the strongest creature in the universe, but its internal structure is a completely new life system that uses infinite cosmic energy. It is a living system that harnesses infinite cosmic energy. It is the strongest structure in the world, with superior regenerative and generative capabilities.
Scan here

Also MechaGodzilla Heisei is called 'new type' and Showa 'old type' on the same page

This is what I could find in like 15 minutes, there's obviously a lot more with these comparisons. When evidence is THIS consistent and doesn't contradict anything to deny it for being a different canon doesn't make sense.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

I feel like there is some inconsistent stuff but either way we should call apex here as he is the man the myth and the legend when it comes to goji. I am more interested in the supernova statement tbh.

Crazy how we were tutoring him in my Discord but ya know. Where do you think he got so many Japanese scans?

 

[Qawsedf234]

This is literally an argument from ignorance

No, it's an argument from our scaling standards. Or at least what I draw from our scaling standards. I'm not for scaling to alternate universes to showings that dwarf everything they can do by multiple tiers.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Except not only is it VERY blatant that Heisei>Showa in these abundant and consistent what-if battles but there's also the issue that the Heisei series has better feats and statements anyway. This is often dismissed as 'theory tho' which is NOT an argument and uses what's shown (blatantly said later that was an underestimation too) to downplay even though feats aren't limitations. The energy explosion is just stated outright to be far stronger than what was displayed so not a good argument. They only 'dwarf' because of stupidity done here to downplay

By the way, black hole thing for SpaceGodzilla? Not a theory, confirmed in a film interview. And in his compendium page. Put the resistance on.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

No, it's an argument from our scaling standards. Or at least what I draw from our scaling standards. I'm not for scaling to alternate universes to showings that dwarf everything they can do by multiple tiers.

Read above debunk. Also the standards tend to do stupid stuff specifically to downplay or wank anyway so not the best argument.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also the standards tend to do stupid stuff specifically to downplay

It's to avoid reaching claims that get a character or verse far beyond what they've been shown to do. Like here.

By the way, black hole thing for SpaceGodzilla

Surviving a wormhole/black hole doesn't suddenly mean they're Low 4-C.

The most here is a possibly rating. I'm against a hard upgrade based on what if battles from different canon timelines.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

It's to avoid reaching claims that get a character or verse far beyond what they've been shown to do. Like here.

Surviving a wormhole/black hole doesn't suddenly mean they're Low 4-C.

The most here is a possibly rating. I'm against a hard upgrade based on what if battles from different canon timelines.

The claims here are incredibly substantiated and the higher feats haven't been addressed at all so that's NOT an argument.

No but it does get rid of the 'just a theory' excuse that this site loves. That said, it should anyway.

That's not a good reason but the possibly is fine til the High 4-C SpaceGodzilla stuff is confirmed.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

i think a possibly can work.

 

[Qawsedf234]

claims here are incredibly substantiated

They're hypothetical fights from different timeliness that place characters far higher than their source work. It's not incredibly substantiated. Though it's probably useable for a possibly rating.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

Okay so the proposal goes something like this:

At least 5-B (keep the same stuff) possibly At Least Low 4-C for Mothra, Battra and Rodan (scaling to Rodan and Megalon/possibly High 4-C for King Ghidorah (compared to Showa version and MKG stated to be more powerful), MechaGodzilla (stronger than MKG, implied to be superior to Showa MG), Godzilla (downscales from SpaceGodzilla's origin feat, stronger than all other creatures by the end of the series in his base form), Moguera (3-6x stronger than Super MechaGodzilla) and SpaceGodzilla (has survived entering a black hole, fueled by supernovae, stronger than Godzilla in base), Destoroyah (stronger than SpaceGodzilla) and Burning Godzilla (explosion statement and stronger than base)

 

[TyranoDoom30]

i think the explosion statement needs a translation

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

They're hypothetical fights from different timeliness that place characters far higher than their source work. It's not incredibly substantiated. Though it's probably useable for a possibly rating.

Except it's not, there's already a myriad of statements for SpaceGodzilla having stellar tier power to which Godzilla and Moguera scale anyway, Destoroyah upscales and Burning Godzilla would explicitly be above this when approaching and at meltdown via the statement of his explosion's energy release. "Far higher than their source work" is only because of the tried and FAILED excuse of SpaceGodzilla only having theories (debunked countless times) and Burning Godzilla's CGI visual being 5-A despite it also getting High 5-A, Low 4-C and High 4-C via other calculations anyway.

Not to mention this was accepted already when the higher proposal for Showa (above High 6-A) was given anyway.

 

[SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King]

i think the explosion statement needs a translation

I could ask for that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Except it's not, there's already a myriad of statements

Nothing there is evidence for High 4-C. Absorbing energy from a supernova isn't Tier 4 unless they absorbed it 100% and nothing there confirms it.

Not to mention this was accepted already when the higher proposal for Showa (above High 6-A) was given anyway

This changes nothing about my previous statements. It's attempting to scale people from a hypothetical cross canon fight. It's against our norms to do so without more supporting evidence for Heisei Godzilla.

 

[Hellbeast]

Nothing there is evidence for High 4-C. Absorbing energy from a supernova isn't Tier 4 unless they absorbed it 100% and nothing there confirms it.

Yeah we shouldn't be assuming he has the full Supernova's energy if he isn't outright stated to have done so

This changes nothing about my previous statements. It's attempting to scale people from a hypothetical cross canon fight. It's against our norms to do so without more supporting evidence for Heisei Godzilla.

I'm lining up with this. This is a pretty standard guideline for us.
The Tier 4 statements might be better to discuss