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Testarossa002

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Happy New Year guys

Starting 2023 on a controversial note
Naruto Speed Discussion
Shippuden
Itachi
Itachi’s Mangekyo Sharingan via his Tsukuyomi should get at least Light Speed perception
This is because, the tsukuyomi is capable of trapping those who move at the speed of light
There's another Justification for this in the next section
=SOL perception

Hebi Sasuke
Gets Speed of Light Attack Speed via Kirin
Which was stated in the databooks to be the speed of light
Yeah I know, there are contentions with it
So let's get it over with

"Kirin is your regular CTG lightning".
That is indeed true but becomes false to an extent.
Zetsu's statement and description was in complete reference to the creation of Lighting without usage of chakra that in turn grants benefits such as being in an enormous scale that Shinobi cannot replicate by using chakra to create it.
In theory, when this lighting is created without chakra usage, said Lighting cannot heed the bidding of a Shinobi as they need chakra to directly manipulate. Hence it's only logical that Sasuke imbued said Natural Lighting with his own Chakra in order to freely manipulate the lighting. Zetsu also notified Sasuke "tamed" the lighting. Such can only be achieved via chakra imbuing.

To solidify this "theory", Sasuke stated "This Jutsu Guide The Lighting...". Direct implication of this statement is the fact that he uses a Jutsu (which always involves Chakra) to directly control the Lighting. It is this Jutsu that is known as "Kirin '' and not the natural lighting formed. In other words, the natural lighting formed cannot be Kirin without Sasuke manipulating it with his Chakra which can in turn alter its Speed.

"But Zetsu said....."
Aside from the controversy or fact of Zetsu being an unreliable source, it should be clarified that Zetsu only made his statement in reference to natural lighting and didn't and couldn't account for the boost that may come from Sasuke imbuing it with his chakra. For simplicity, Zetsu stated the speed of Natural Lighting and not Kirin. It's previously explained above how the Natural Lighting differs from when it is converted to Kirin.

Sasuke himself didn't say anything concrete either
Other than it's faster and more potent than anything he knows of
Which brings me to my next point
Lore wise, Teen kakashi is famed to be able to react to a CTG lightning and cut it in the same vein
Whether or not the calc makes him lightning speed is actually irrelevant
The point is that he can react to lightning
3T Itachi was more or less relative to a stronger kakashi
Add the MS on top
And Sasuke should be well aware of Itachi's speed since he just fought him
There's no way he thought that a CTG lightning which teen kakashi could take action against would blitz MS Itachi
Unless people believe Teen Kakashi with just a sharingan has better reactions than Itachi with Mangekyo
There's also the small matter of adult kakashi intercepting an attack that was described to be a lightning bolt
Hope you get the point

War Arc Sasuke
Via the EMS, he now has access to Itachi's ocular prowess. That should grant him itachi level perception speed
=Light speed or FTL perception for Sasuke

New Era
Kakashi
In Kakashi Retsuden, Kakashi was able to utilize a jutsu that moves at the speed of a flash of light
=SoL attack speed


Naruto (Base)
In Naruto Retsuden, a sick Naruto was stated to be able to naturally react to photon beams
While there's no depiction of a distance to get a calculation for it, the statement "naturally" should imply that Naruto in base should have at least light speed reflexes
=At least Light Speed

Orochimaru
Orochimaru was able to become FTE to base Naruto's perception
-=FTL/Rel (Depending on the outcome of Naruto’s stuff)

Konohanaru has an accepted sub rel calc. Those who scale would be discussed here
Konohamaru(New Era)

For Obvious Reasons

Ao
Could keep up in combat with Konohamaru

Victor
Could blitz Konohamaru
As an inner, he should be above the likes of Ao

Sarada
Could react to and combat Ao

Mitsuki(Base)
Could react to and combat Ao

Boruto(Base)
Could react to and combat Ao

Deepa
Could keep up with Team 7 at once without any issues
As an inner, he should be above the likes of Ao

Sakura(New Era)
Could keep up with sharingan activated Sarada easily

Shin
Could keep up in combat with Sakura

Boro
Could keep up with members of Team 7 in combat
As an inner, he should be above the likes of Ao

Kawaki(Base)
Should be comparable to the rest of Team 7

ChoCho(Butterfly Mode}
Could fight against chidori amped Sarada
FYI: For the new era characters, these characters are the ones i could remember
If you believe anyone else should scale, do mention it



Agree: @karzen @45Saef @Excel616 @The_Alxhemist @narutosage15 @GokuSparkle @Tdjwo @Godernet ("possibly" rating) @theultimate5105 ("possibly" rating) @Mori @Tomboy11 @Hasty12345 ("possibly" rating) @Arc7Kuroi ("possibly" rating) @Deceived3596 ("possibly" rating) @GTsek @Shadowbokunohero @DemonGodMitchAubin @ImmortalDread @Milly_Rocking_Bandit @DarkDragonMedeus @Halkum145 @theultimate5105
Neutral: @LordTracer
Disagree: @Damage3245
 
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Well damn. Starting off the new year with a Naruto CRT.

Only ones I have issues with are Naruto's since there's obviously no set distance but we know they were within talking distance in the room and Furie shot the photon gun after Naruto turned away from him, and this is a supposedly nerfed Naruto so we can't say his sensory prowess was in play. Possibly SOL reaction is fine by me

Kakashi? No, iirc that Jutsu was used for flight and it's showings on paper was different.

Agree for the rest disagree for Kakashi. Neutral on Naruto
 
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Only ones I have issues with are Naruto's since there's obviously no set distance but we know they were within talking distance in the room and Furie shot the photon gun after Naruto turned away from him, and this is a supposedly nerfed Naruto so we can't say his sensory prowess was in play. Possibly SOL reaction is fine by me
I believe the distance argument can be addressed with the way the feat was described
"Naturally" as in second nature or as expected

Kakashi? No, iirc that Jutsu was used for flight and it's showings on paper was different.
It was a flying bird
A fire jutsu actually
He used it to counter a water jutsu done by his opponent
 
It's more of multipliers for them. Obviously, SPSM is hundreds times faster than Hebi Sasuke's perception.
That's kind of the issue
Narutoverse's only accepted speed multiplier on this site is the Gates
It would require one to make new CRT's to get sage mode and eventually SPSM to be accepted as speed multipliers
I believe there's an ongoing thread for this somewhere
Although it's been abandoned
 
A bit neutral rn on the shippuden stuff, just wanna see what some other people say first

Agree with the boruto changes, I honestly think there’s enough for FTL base naruto though. Not only did he perform relativistic feats while extremely weakened, he showed brief FTL speeds against fused momo too
 
That's kind of the issue
Narutoverse's only accepted speed multiplier on this site is the Gates
It would require one to make new CRT's to get sage mode and eventually SPSM to be accepted as speed multipliers
I believe there's an ongoing thread for this somewhere
Although it's been abandoned
You might be talking about my sage mode thread lol it would be better getting AP accepted first before I tackle that subject again
 
You might be talking about my sage mode thread lol it would be better getting AP accepted first before I tackle that subject again
Yeah
Just saw that it was locked
Hopefully we get new information in the future as SM would be Naruto's most used transformation going forward
It's open to way many interpretations with the current information
 
Anyway, I disagree with the main proposal of this thread. The manga takes priority over the databook and the reason why the Kirin is considered fast in the manga is because it's natural lightning.

Your arguments haven't convinced me otherwise.

Not to mention that the official translation of the databook doesn't support the Kirin being lightspeed.
 
I blame Arc for making the LS Kirin argument popular on site, should've never brought it up to these goons smh.

I'll comment later because there's some stuff i'm fine with but there's also somethings which i disagree with.
 
Anyway, I disagree with the main proposal of this thread. The manga takes priority over the databook and the reason why the Kirin is considered fast in the manga is because it's natural lightning.

Your arguments haven't convinced me otherwise.

Not to mention that the official translation of the databook doesn't support the Kirin being lightspeed.
But Zetsu isn't an omniscient observer, he can be wrong especially cause he's never seen the jutsu before, while the databook is WoG. And especially since two different books say Kirin is Light Speed, it's pretty questionable to just discard it.

Raws>VIZ.
 
Anyway, I disagree with the main proposal of this thread. The manga takes priority over the databook and the reason why the Kirin is considered fast in the manga is because it's natural lightning.

Your arguments haven't convinced me otherwise.

Not to mention that the official translation of the databook doesn't support the Kirin being lightspeed.
We also have a much weaker character famed for being able to take action against a naturally occurring lightning
The very fact that Kirin is stated to be unavoidable by a much stronger character makes putting it in the same speed bracket as the naturally occurring own an issue
Besides,
Kirin isn't exactly a naturally occurring lightning
Nor does it carry the natural potency of one
And it has the shape of a freaking giraffe

All these should be able to invalidate zetsu's assertion
Seeing as he doesn't have pre existing information on the jutsu
I believe a WoG statement should take precedence in this situation

Apart from the Kirin argument, what about the tsukuyomi stuff and the new era stuffs
 
I mean
Kakashi intercepted False Darkness which was stated to be a lightning bolt
Yes, that's one of the ones I was referring to.

If that’s already the case then being lightning speed wouldn’t be the reason a jutsu is considered too fast for anyone to evade, it would need to be faster
The jutsu is already accepted to be faster than average lightning speed. There is a calc for it.
 
The jutsu is already accepted to be faster than average lightning speed. There is a calc for it.
Meaning zetsu's assertions are not in line with what we've seen in the series up to that point
The next canon source should be used rather than calcs
 
Meaning zetsu's assertions are not in line with what we've seen in the series up to that point
The next canon source should be used rather than calcs
No? Not at all.

We use a figure of "average lightning speed" for the Raiton jutsu that are accepted to be lightning speed. That does not mean the Kirin cannot be faster; the accepted calc for it is still within possibe lightning speeds.
 
The jutsu is already accepted to be faster than average lightning speed. There is a calc for it.
Apparently the actual kanji for the databook entry states light speed though, and if it’s already known to be faster than lightning then there shouldn’t be contradictions with using light speed for kirin

It wouldn’t even be an outlier or anything if you consider itachi’s SOL perception through MS which just narratively supports light speed having a place at this point in the story
 
Apparently the actual kanji for the databook entry states light speed though, and if it’s already known to be faster than lightning then there shouldn’t be contradictions with using light speed for kirin

It wouldn’t even be an outlier or anything if you consider itachi’s SOL perception through MS which just narratively supports light speed having a place at this point in the story
My vote is still against it.
 
Fair enough, how are we feeling about SOL perception through tsukoyomi?
Looks like a statement for Tsukuyomi in general and not Itachi's perceptions. It talks about how the victim will be helpless against the Genjutsu once the Genjutsu has been cast; not that it can always be cast on someone who is lightspeed.
 
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