Haoshoku Haki Revision

[Damage3245]

@A-redswordtomato; thank you for providing that.

Though elsewhere in the series, it is implied strongly that having a strong will allows the user to resist Haki (such as when Shanks arrives on Whitebeard's ship).

@Calaca;

> In One Piece case, you can resist Haki having a strong will. It shouldn't count the same for every other verse.

I'm pretty sure other series which have abilities that can be resisted by willpower also treats that as applying for other verses too.

 

[A-redswordtomato]

@Damage3245; The viz translation certainly implies that.

But just for the sake accuracy here's the raw sca, using image translators I get "half-prepared" instead of "weak will", but it'd be appreciated if someone more knowledgeable could give some input.

 

[Xulrev]

The official version is almost....worse.

Defeating someone with haki is a phenomenon that occurs ONLY WHEN the user is overwhelmingly more powerful than the opponent.

So going by Oda's own words (with emphasis mine), it's not even willpower, it's just that you have to be OVERWHELMINGLY more powerful in general for Haki to even be effective, as in, they weren't even worth fighting.

I'd almost prefer the willpower interpretation, but the official translation is what it is I suppose.

 

[A-redswordtomato]

I'm trying to find raw scans for that SBS, but as it stands it seems it's entirely a power gap thing.

 

[Rocker1189]

I am just going to say, people are using Nen as an example but I think that one needs to be looked into as well.

 

[Omimi]

Is it not stated that having Reiatsu grants soul resistance? In other words, that it is soul resistance that allows one to resist a Reiatsu Crush?

it stated that having Reiatsu grants soul resistance

Reiatsu allows one to resist a Reiatsu Crush

 

[The_Calaca]

The power gap being the factor is ilogic. If that's the case a bunch of High 7-Cs and Low 7-Bs can survive to a burst of Haki from Low 6-Bs and 6-Bs without flinching a bit, even in cases like Nami and Chopper.

@Damage

We don't equalize said abilities. Goku has aura yet he doesn't resist HxH's hax since he lacks those resistances.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Honestly, I don't see why we treat Haoshoku as Empathic. Every time I hear it described, it seems more Willpower Manipulation than Empathic. IIRC, it's even described as dominating/subjucating the wills of others. That would also make more sense, IMO, and then we'd just have strong will = resistance to Willpower Manipulation in One Piece.

But, hey, what do I know.

 

[The_Calaca]

The Haki's page it's outdated. We had a CRT about adding Willpower Manipulation in the sense of the users weaponizing their own wills to subjugate the targets rather than manipulating the target's willpower. It was accepted but nobody made the changes.

 

[Damage3245]

@Calaca; I know we don't equalize abilities but we shouldn't ignore the inherent weakness in abilities either.

If this were the case then every ability by every character that can be resisted by willpower would have that weakness ignored here. Abilities like Hitoshi Shinso's Brainwashing, or Tatausmaki's ESP would just have part of their potential counters ignored just because they're fighting someone from another verse.

This is like saying that Big Mom can steal the souls of anyone outside of One Piece even if they don't feel fear, because "resisting soul manipulation due to lack of fear" is something that only exists inside of the One Piece verse.

 

[A-redswordtomato]

About the description of CoC, in the viz Translation it's described as the ability to overwhelm, in other scanlations it's the ability to overpower the opponent's will.

So take it as you will.

 

[YungManzi]

I think this whole unequalization that's been happening recently should be looked into by staff as a whole.

Bleach, Hunter X Hunter, and One Piece.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

This kind of thing easily encourages other verses to do the same.

This whole thing is just one of the way to wank characters even beyond.(I am not talking about One Piece specifically)

 

[Jvando]

I agree with @Damage, the only issue is that we have already established precedence for similar cases in other verses:

• You don't have resistance to soul manip? Reiatsu crush GG
• You don't have Nen? Nen baptism says hello
• What? No resistance to Willpower manip? Conqueror's Haki, good night

Denying this would be a blatant show of double standards. I don't agree with it, but in vs battles, the mechanics of one verse aren't transferred regardless of how similar the energies between the two are.

• You have spiritual energy but, you're not in the Bleach verse? Reiatsu Crush GG
• You have Ki/Chi/Chakra? It's similar to nen you say? Is it Ne though? No? Nen Baptism FRA
• What? In your verse your very presence causes people with weak minds to faint? Do you have Haki though? Or at least Resistance to willpower manip? That's unfortunate then. Haoshoku Haki puta you to sleep.

This is where we are at. I may not agree with it 100%, but it is what it is.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

To an extent, I agree with Dzhindzholia and definitely agree with YungManzi. I don't know if it's wank but I definitely think it's gotten a tad out of hand.

That said, if Haki is outdated and the changes were approved but never moved forward, those changes and their implications have to happen first. We have to rework Haki to what it's supposed to be on site before we can start examining it.

Otherwise, anything we do here is going to get modified/changed anyway, so what's the point at the moment?

It's like putting the cart before the horse right now.

 

[Rocker1189]

I think this whole unequalization that's been happening recently should be looked into by staff as a whole.
Bleach, Hunter X Hunter, and One Piece.

agreed.

 

[YungManzi]

Bumpy stump.

 

[The_Calaca]

Haki's page is now updated.