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Haku Upgrade

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LordTracer

LordTracer

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During the Land of Waves arc, Haku was stated by both Zabuza and Sasuke to not be going all-out or using his full power. So Sasuke and Naruto being capable of reacting to him or damaging him aren't really strikes against him, as he wasn't going all out. However, in the War Arc, Haku was not holding back and was weaker than in his prime due to being an Edo. With that being said:

Full Power Haku

- Zabuza stated that even if Kakashi beat him, he wouldn't beat Haku.

- Zabuza also stated that Haku's jutsu was better than his ow.

Edo Haku

- Edo Haku was fast enough to react to - and strong enough to block - kicks from Might Gai and Rock Lee at the same time.

- Edo Haku was able to clash with Rock Lee.

- He reacted to Sai's ink birds and was able to protect Zabuza and himself.

Ice Mirrors

- It took Naruto tapping into the Kyuubi's chakra, which Zabuza stated was stronger than Kakashi, to break Haku's mirrors.

- Edo Haku intercepted War Arc Kakashi, just like in the Land of Waves Arc.

Conclusion/Proposals

If everything here is accepted, Haku's stats would look like this:

- Haku's AP: At least Town level (Believed by Zabuza to be stronger and have better jutsu than him. As a weaker Edo, he was able to clash with Rock Lee and block a kick from both him and Gai at the same time)

- Haku's Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ (Reacted to Rock Lee and Might Guy at the same time. Protected Zabuza and himself from Sai's ink birds), Sub-Relativistic via ice mirrors (Intercepted War Arc Kakashi's Raikiri)

- Haku's Durability: At least Town level, higher with ice mirrors (Took a Kyuubi amped Naruto, who had surpassed Kakashi, to break his mirrors)

A note should also be added on Haku's profile, which would say something along the lines of:

- Haku was holding back in the Land of Waves arc, as stated by Zabuza and Sasuke.
 
If what was officially stated? If you mean Haku holding back, I posted the scans for that at the bottom of the OP.
 
I don't agree with light speed for obvious reaosn

If does we're the official translations then I agree with him bring 7C
 
Why not speed though? Apart from the light speed stuff, I'll remove that. But what would be wrong with MHS+ Haku and Sub-Rel mirrors?
 
Hmm sub rel would have been fine if he fought guy who was in gates but when I thi k ablut it Kakashi would scale to sub rel which would be inconsistent.

Well that's what most people would say

But now that I personally think over it sub rel Kakashi in part 1 would be consistent with Zabuza who fought him again in the war
 
In the Land of Waves arc Haku managed to intercept shurikens thrown by Zabuza which can be seen here at 0:38: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZeBl3v1AVU. He also managed to react to Kakashi's Raikiri and intercept it via his Ice Mirrors which is a feat listed on his profile yet somehow doesn't make him Massively Hypersonic+. I think that his current Speed Rating doesn't properly convey what he is capable of.
 
I've just realized that this would massively upgrade Naruto's speed and strength with Kurama's Chakra in the Land of Waves arc. The same would apply to his One-Tailed Naruto key and by extension Sasuke when he is using the second Level of the cursed seal.
 
@AstralKing I was going to upgrade Zabuza as well (to 7-A and Sub-Rel), but it didn't really make sense, at least to me. Because then it would be like Part I Kakashi is just as strong as War Arc Kakashi, and several 7-Cs would then become 7-A.

@Nehz Yeah, LoW Arc Naruto with the Kyuubi chakra would scale. I didn't even think of One-Tailed Naruto and CS2 Sasuke, but they would definitely scale too.
 
Haku only being 8-B and Supersonic doesn't make much sense when you consider additional factors and lore.

Beyond "He was getting stalemated by Sasuke and Naruto!"
 
So long as nobody in Part 1 is involved with the scaling, there shouldn't be many inconsistencies.

Maybe the upgrade should just affect Edo Haku.
 
Damage3245 said:
So long as nobody in Part 1 is involved with the scaling, there shouldn't be many inconsistencies.

Maybe the upgrade should just affect Edo Haku.
Click to expand...

This is nitpicking if we wanna be honest. Edos are weaker than their alive forms
 
This wouldn't really work. Being an Edo doesn't make you stronger. In fact it makes you weaker so it would be inconsistent with his statistics while he was alive.
 
yes but we cant backscale

at best we can scale him(part1 haku) to part 1 kakshi or zabuza

i mean war arc kakashi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>part 1 kakshi
 
Yes, it is a bit of nitpicking but sometimes that is necessary to avoid inconsistencies.
 
Damage3245 said:
So long as nobody in Part 1 is involved with the scaling, there shouldn't be many inconsistencies.

Maybe the upgrade should just affect Edo Haku.
Click to expand...
The only people in Part 1 (other than Haku himself) affected are Kyuubi Chakra Naruto from Land of Waves, and One-Tailed Naruto and CS2 Sasuke (and for them it's only a speed upgrade).

And like Astral and Nehz said, Edo Haku is weaker than Part 1 Haku, so it has to apply to Part 1 Haku, especially since Zabuza's statements of Haku being superior to him were from Part 1.
 
The only thing that would scale to War arc Kakashi would be Haku's speed with the Ice Mirrors which are consistently treated as making him much faster than he is normally. How many inconsistencies would arise from that?
 
That would still not make Haku when he was alive weaker than when he was an Edo.
 
YungManzi said:
I don't agree with anyone scaling to part 1 Haku, including kyuubi chakra Naruto.
Click to expand...
I'm in agreement with this.
 
Kyuubi Chakra Naruto should be 7-C regardless, since Zabuza said he was stronger than Kakashi.

But if not scaling him to Haku is necessary for this to be accepted, then I guess it's fine.
 
Didn't he just say his chakra is "stronger" than Kakashi? Which we already know Naruto has way more chakra than Kakashi. But that doesn't scale to AP.

Quite frankly, kyuubi enhanced Naruto being stronger than Kakashi makes no sense in context. Considering how Jonin, Special jonin, and the sound four are treated later on.

And Haku never fought seriously against Sasuke or Naruto.

Even in the end, he was just gonna stand there and get his head punched in, with low chakra and without even trying to defend himself.
 
Zabuza said Naruto's Kyuubi chakra was "too strong" to be Kakashi, yes. What does Naruto having more chakra have to do with anything though? Just having more chakra wasn't what made Zabuza say Naruto's was stronger.

But again, I don't particularly care as long as Haku gets his proper tiering.
 
YungManzi said:
Which we already know Naruto has way more chakra than Kakashi. But that doesn't scale to AP.
Click to expand...
stong chakra =/=has way more chakra

having more chakra doent means your AP is stronger

on the other hand

having stronger chakra means your AP is also stronger
 
How do we scale Naruto with Kurama's Chakra? He did punch through Haku's mirrors and if Haku is at least 7-C, then he should be able to make his mirrors that durable as well. Even if they weren't in that instance, he would have had the time to make them that durable if he was massively faster than Naruto in that instance. There is also the fact that Naruto wouldn't have been able to hit him or even damage him if he landed a hit. So how do we scale in this case?
 
> He did punch through Haku's mirrors and if Haku is at least 7-C, then he should be able to make his mirrors that durable as well.

Why? Durability doesn't necessarily equal Attack Potency.

The only thing we know is that they can tank Sasuke's fireball which as been calced to be 8-B.
 
So you are saying that the mirrors should have a lower Durability than Haku himself? For what does he even have that technique for then? He would still gain a speed advantage but why would he have a technique that surrounds a target with ice that is far less durable than himself? If the only advantage he gains from it is speed, wouldn't just a few mirrors scattered around in the environment be enough? Any opponent comparable to him would easily be able to smash the ice and he wouldn't actually need any technique against opponents far weaker than himself.
 
I don't think it is ever implied that the main use of the ice mirrors is to act as a shield; he primarily uses them just to zip around his opponents and surround them.
 
Haku's feat of reacting to Sai's ink birds also shows that he should be able to protect himself against threats that can potentially harm him with his ice so nothing suggests that he couldn't do the same with his ice mirrors.
 
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