Bobsican
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Hajun VS Akuto Sai
- Thread starter Anonimaço
- Start date
- Status
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- 232
Well, the thing about Sai being baseline 1-A or High 1-B doesn't count as a thing. That would make him pretty powerful, but I don't think he will be able to beat the three eyed "god"... but also we come to The Law of Identity saying that he won't die by any mean. The tie flag rises again.Bobsican said:
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"Victory Conditions: Killing the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions."
Akuto is passively in this state to Hajun
People seem to forget that a character having unbeatable regen/immortality alone does not make something inconclsuive.
Akuto is passively in this state to Hajun
People seem to forget that a character having unbeatable regen/immortality alone does not make something inconclsuive.
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It is.Wokistan said:
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That's the issue, though. Debating between super high-end 1-As, High 1-As, and 0s is inherently pointless unless they're from the same verse.Anonimaço said:
It misses the very idea of what makes these things so transcendent and "powerful" (if that word even applies here), simply because it treats them like normal characters and utilizes a slightly different standard of "which guy can blow up more stuff?" which won't lead to anything due to said beings barely even qualifying as "characters" any more as opposed to ideas or laws.
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Azzy wins easily, he can just nuke the profiles of The Creator and TLOI and leave only himselfAnonimaço said:
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Thank you. This is why I never understood Akuto sai's or Featherine's ratings here.Warren Valion said:
Literally their high ends is transcend an infinite heiarchy which said heiarchy is High 1-B. Transcending an infinite heiarchy is literally just Baseline 1-A, yet the wiki rates Akuto sai as 1-A/High 1-A and Featherine at High 1-A for example. That's crazy imo.
Honestly, Hajun should 100% stomp unless someone is legitmately willing to post evidence of Akuto being that far above baseline
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- Thread starter
- #53
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot
Bobsican once quoted something that, he said, would make TLOI and The Creator possibly superior to Azathoth, here:
"Well, Azzy lacks the will to harm TLOI to begin with, and as unlike Azzy, TLoI can still manually trascend other stories, which means that she can still put herself in a even higher level of existance that Azzy, something Azzy won´t even try to counter, as he lacks the will to do so in the first place."
(in this case, refers to TLOI, but can also refer to the creator)
Anyway, how would you respond to this? I'm curious
Bobsican once quoted something that, he said, would make TLOI and The Creator possibly superior to Azathoth, here:
"Well, Azzy lacks the will to harm TLOI to begin with, and as unlike Azzy, TLoI can still manually trascend other stories, which means that she can still put herself in a even higher level of existance that Azzy, something Azzy won´t even try to counter, as he lacks the will to do so in the first place."
(in this case, refers to TLOI, but can also refer to the creator)
Anyway, how would you respond to this? I'm curious
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The problem with Akuto Sai is that his infinite hierarchy doesn't seem like it should be considered 1-A, as there is nothing in his description to assume as such. Featherine, on the other hand, is different. Her franchise does have infinite levels of outerversal transcendence. It all stems from Umineko's cosmology. There are infinite layers with a Reality-Fiction difference.Salutextm said:
At the first layer, the bottom of this hierarchy, exists the real world, higher dimensions, and even a transcendental realm - which alludes to it being an outerversal realm. And that's one layer out of an infinite number, and each higher layer sees the lower one as nothing more than fiction. Surrounding the infinite layers exists the Sea of Nothingness, which resides beyond all layers. And then there are characters like Featherine and the Creator. Image here.
To see more, visit the Umineko Cosmology Blog.
So as you can see, Featherine definitely has the proof that she is at such a level, while Akuto seemingly doesn't.
Wokistan
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Bobsican once quoted something that, he said, would make TLOI and The Creator possibly superior to Azathoth, here:
"Well, Azzy lacks the will to harm TLOI to begin with, and as unlike Azzy, TLoI can still manually trascend other stories, which means that she can still put herself in a even higher level of existance that Azzy, something Azzy won´t even try to counter, as he lacks the will to do so in the first place."
(in this case, refers to TLOI, but can also refer to the creator)
Anyway, how would you respond to this? I'm curious
That's really not how any of this works. At the level of Azathoth's "existence", will isn't really a thing. That stopped being relevant long ago. Everything like that and even the idea that Azathoth is "asleep" is merely the best metaphors that our human minds can use to attempt to comprehend something so alien to us, as in their truest form of "existence" they are beyond all, beyond change, and not even really characters.
"Well, Azzy lacks the will to harm TLOI to begin with, and as unlike Azzy, TLoI can still manually trascend other stories, which means that she can still put herself in a even higher level of existance that Azzy, something Azzy won´t even try to counter, as he lacks the will to do so in the first place."
(in this case, refers to TLOI, but can also refer to the creator)
Anyway, how would you respond to this? I'm curious
That's really not how any of this works. At the level of Azathoth's "existence", will isn't really a thing. That stopped being relevant long ago. Everything like that and even the idea that Azathoth is "asleep" is merely the best metaphors that our human minds can use to attempt to comprehend something so alien to us, as in their truest form of "existence" they are beyond all, beyond change, and not even really characters.
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Bobsican
He/Him- 21,628
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Oh, now I see what you got wrong.
Simply put, the hierarchy includes other just like Akuto himself, who can also edit and make stories as they please, which leads to even more writers, then more writers and so on forever, leading to at least about an infinite hierarchy that contains an infinitely infinite (basically squared infinite) outerversal hierarchy he trascends, which is comparable to Umineko because of that.
Simply put, the hierarchy includes other just like Akuto himself, who can also edit and make stories as they please, which leads to even more writers, then more writers and so on forever, leading to at least about an infinite hierarchy that contains an infinitely infinite (basically squared infinite) outerversal hierarchy he trascends, which is comparable to Umineko because of that.
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There's nothing proving that it is outerversal though, that's the problem. The infinite hierarchy is seemingly higher dimensions, not outerversal levels.Bobsican said:
Did you read nothing that I wrote?
Bobsican
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Oh, in that case, it would be nice if the guys that promoted TLoI to the tiershe is bringed some proof, as I still remember the thread about it, and it seems they somehow managed to convince the staff to put the verse in those tiers even if they had everything except proof that what they stated was not just made up or wanked.
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Her franchise does have infinite levels of outerversal transcendence.
Scans if you don't mind?
Both characters are above what's explictly depicted as an infinite dimensional heiarchy. That's...baseline.
If Hajun really is that far into 1-A, then he would win against both.
Scans if you don't mind?
Both characters are above what's explictly depicted as an infinite dimensional heiarchy. That's...baseline.
If Hajun really is that far into 1-A, then he would win against both.
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This is a guide to higher layers in When They Cry
As you can see, the first layer contains all higher dimensions as well as the transcendent realm, and there are infinite higher realms above the first layer.
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I linked the series's cosmology page, gave a simple explanation on said cosmology, and showed an image of the hierarchy being explained and then simplifying it to show that it is, in fact, an outerversal hierarchy, and not just a dimensional one - unlike seemingly Akuto's.Salutextm said:
Did you not read what I wrote?
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So... if the novel didn't said something like "the multiverse is the lowest level" or show the cosmology that Laciel showed us, is baseline? When I said that Hajun has a lot of wanking I was talking about how any of the people thinks that he is "nigh-omnipotent". You want to take this to the point that we accept that this is a stomp in Hajun's favor? Ok, Hajun stomps him. I can live with that. But please... take it easy, this versus are just fun for a lot of people.
On the other hand... I still think that this is inconclusive.
On the other hand... I still think that this is inconclusive.
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You linked a "cosmology" page and a non-offical image that's outdated which also does not at all prove there's an "infinite outerversal heirachy". Hello? That's why I asked If you could possibly post scans to prove these claims. It's not a outerversal heiarchy, it's a dimensional one. Lambdadelta herself literally says this. Akuto's heiarchy would be the exact the same thing. Which means transcending it (which is all Akuto Sai and Featherine did), would be baseline 1A, nowhere near high 1-A.Warren Valion said:
Which also means Hajun should win.
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It's already a farce.
You can't make a "hierarchy of High 1-As/0s" that aren't from the same verse.
That misses the entire point of how they work.
You can't make a "hierarchy of High 1-As/0s" that aren't from the same verse.
That misses the entire point of how they work.
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"That's the issue, though. Debating between super high-end 1-As, High 1-As, and 0s is inherently pointless unless they're from the same verse.Bobsican said:
It misses the very idea of what makes these things so transcendent and "powerful" (if that word even applies here), simply because it treats them like normal characters and utilizes a slightly different standard of "which guy can blow up more stuff?" which won't lead to anything due to said beings barely even qualifying as "characters" any more as opposed to ideas or laws."
^
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ctrl + F the amount of times in this thread my comments mentioned "omnipotence" and related those to my answer.Bobsican said:
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Which part? "As tier High 1-A and 0 are going to be mxed up soon"? That part?
Because that supports my point. Notice how I said "Debating between super high-end 1-As, High 1-As, and 0s is inherently pointless unless they're from the same verse", not something along the lines of "0 is superior to High 1-A in all circumstances".
Because that supports my point. Notice how I said "Debating between super high-end 1-As, High 1-As, and 0s is inherently pointless unless they're from the same verse", not something along the lines of "0 is superior to High 1-A in all circumstances".
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Not downplay really. 1-A is still strong, i'm just trying to be objective. All Akuto Sai and Featherine did was transcend an infinite dimensional heiarchy. Even by this wiki's standards, that's literally just baseline 1-A. Have no idea where people got High 1-A from, unless there's definite proof (which I asked for).Bobsican said:
And with that, a fair conclusion to this thread can be reached. Hajun should definitely win.
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