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Gyarados Attack Potency

For the Lake Of Rage feat sure, but that was done by a swarm of Gyarados' and do we even know how many Gyarados are in a swarm? The Pokedex entry however could still be an action that was done over time. Destroying a city is a statement that can be taken very broadly.
 
The newest Pokedex entry implies that it took Gyarados about (but still less than) a day to incinerate a town, giving precedence that the feat does take a bit.

"A tale is told of a town that angered Gyarados. Before the sun rose the next day, flames utterly consumed the town, leaving not a trace behind."
 
LordXcano said:
The newest Pokedex entry implies that it took Gyarados about (but still less than) a day to incinerate a town, giving precedence that the feat does take a bit.
"A tale is told of a town that angered Gyarados. Before the sun rose the next day, flames utterly consumed the town, leaving not a trace behind."
Click to expand...
Meaning he'd had a whole day to burn down a town. A group of 100 people can do that, doesn't make them 7-C.
 
LordXcano said:
I know, I was saying that to support your point
Click to expand...
Ah my bad, couldn't really tell what your stance on the matter was sounded neutral so I assumed it was against my point heh.
 
The real cal howard said:
Yeah, kinda don't agree. It's pretty explicit. For example, we accept Cell's controversial statement despite there being any timeframe. And there's a calc for this one.
Click to expand...
It's not really, the Pokedex says it can destroy cities in one generation and then almost every entry afterwards implies that this is done through an extended rampage.

"Once it appears, its rage never settles until it has razed the fields and mountains around it."

"Once Gyarados goes on a rampage, its ferociously violent blood doesn't calm until it has burned everything down. There are records of this Pokémon's rampages lasting a whole month."

" Once it appears, it goes on a rampage. It remains enraged until it demolishes everything around it."

"A tale is told of a town that angered Gyarados. Before the sun rose the next day, flames utterly consumed the town, leaving not a trace behind."

EDIT: And the difference between this and Cell is that Cell said he was going to do it in a single attack, nothing in the Pokedex implies Gyarados can wipe out a whole city in just 1 blast
 
What is the average amount of mountains that are located near one another?(Not sure if I phrased this correctly)
 
Don't see why it would particularly matter since the feat is done over an extended time, in addition to it only being razing the surface of the mountain.
 
From the podex we have 2 timeframes 1 day and 1 month.

Also look at the definition of razed so I dont know where this surface stuff comes from.

completely destroy (a building, town, or other site).

Kinda wish I knew what the japanese pokedex says though.
 
If there is a stated approximate timeframe then not complying would technically be misinterpreting the feat.
 
There isn't a timeframe though. Stating that its rage lasted for a month doesn't mean that it took a month to destroy said town. And the Sun/Moon entry said that it was before the sun rose. We don't know how long it took prior to that, and the entries from R/B/Y to G/S/C are very explicit in town city busting.

Also, I double checked the Cell statement, and it's exactly like that.

  • Cell: "I've gathered enough ki not only to destroy the planet, but the entire solar system!"
  • Gyarados (Pokedex): "Extremely vicious and horribly brutal. Has enough destructive power to totally annihilate even a major city."
If anything, Gyarados should be upgraded to solid City level.
 
Hmmm what Cal said is rather true, problem is is that the other pokedex entries suggest there is a time frame, one much less than 12 hours at least.

About the Cell statement, does he later infer that it would take some time to do that? I would check myself but I'm having some lag on my side.
 
RadicalMrR said:
From the podex we have 2 timeframes 1 day and 1 month.
Also look at the definition of razed so I dont know where this surface stuff comes from.

completely destroy (a building, town, or other site).

Kinda wish I knew what the japanese pokedex says though.
Click to expand...
Just to high-end it I'll use the highest end of Mountain level and the 1 day timeframe.

60*60*24 = 86,400 seconds

Mountain level - 1 Gigato

1/86,400 = 0.0000116 Gigatons or 11.6 Kilotons, Town level

Using the lower bound of Mountain level gives 1.16 Kilotons, Small Town level
 
SomebodyData said:
Hmmm what Cal said is rather true, problem is is that the other pokedex entries suggest there is a time frame, one much less than 12 hours at least.

About the Cell statement, does he later infer that it would take some time to do that? I would check myself but I'm having some lag on my side.
Click to expand...
Cell's kinda too dead to infer that...
 
The real cal howard said:
Also, more Pokedex entries imply Gyarados attacks and city goes bye.
Click to expand...
No, it says he has the power to destroy cities. In the same way just about any world leader also has this power, to say nothing of how long it would take. And even if it is implying it's "one strike and gone" it contradicts just about every single other entry implying it's an over-time feat.

EDIT: The entry in Red and Blue even describes it as happening in "a rage", the same rage we later see described as lasting up to even a month.
 
A kid can wreck his room with a tantrum. Doesn't mean the tantrum is over right then. Analogy works with Gyarados. And Gyarados is literally nothing like a world leader.

So, if I say I can destroy a city, then I'm not a city buster, because I didn't say instantly?

More entries imply quick destruction instead of long destruction. I count three for (Sun, Sapphire, Alpha Sapphire), compared to every entry in classic Pokemon implying otherwise.
 
Literally every entry outside of Yellow and Stadium implies over time given the information that rages do not happen instantly.

"They say that during past wars, Gyarados would appear and leave blazing ruins in its wake."

Either implies nothing or implies that Gyarados destroys a city (or not, "ruin" is pretty vague) whilst travelling through it. Ancient cities for that matter.

"Once it appears, it goes on a rampage. It remains enraged until it demolishes everything around it."

Implies that it's rampages are over time and that it can't instantly destroy the things around it.

"It appears whenever there is world conflict, burning down any place it travels through."

Once again implying it destroys places as it travels through them.

"They say that during the past wars, Gyarados would appear and leave blazing ruins in its wake."

Repeat of above entry.

"When Magikarp evolves into Gyarados, its brain cells undergo a structural transformation. It is said that this transformation is to blame for this Pokémon's wildly violent nature."

Says nothing about destruction.

"Once Gyarados goes on a rampage, its ferociously violent blood doesn't calm until it has burned everything down. There are records of this Pokémon's rampages lasting a whole month."

Once more implies it takes time to destroy the things around it. Given that above entries say it calms down once it has destroyed everything in it's area this entry would imply it can take up to a month to destroy a city.

"It is an extremely vicious and violent Pokémon. When humans begin to fight, it will appear and burn everything to the ground with intensely hot flames."

Says nothing of what it is burning but does imply it destroys things via fire, which would mean it most certainly cannot destroy a city with one blast unless its fire breath is several hundred kilometers wide.

"It has an extremely aggressive nature. The Hyper Beam it shoots from its mouth totally incinerates all targets."

NLF entry that is most likely referring to Pokemon anyway.

"Rarely seen in the wild. Huge and vicious, it is capable of destroying entire cities in a rage."

Once more says its city destruction is done through prolonged rages.

"Once it appears, its rage never settles until it has razed the fields and mountains around it."

States again that destroying the things around it is a long process.

"In ancient literature, there is a record of a Gyarados that razed a village when violence flared."

States that it destroyed a village with no mention of timeframe, even more dubious since it's ancient literature.

"Once it begins to rampage, a Gyarados will burn everything down, even in a harsh storm."

Repitition of previous entries that Gyarados rampages until it has destroyed everything around it.

"They say that during past wars, Gyarados would appear and leave blazing ruins in its wake"

Copy of previous entries.

"Once it appears, it goes on a rampage. It remains enraged until it demolishes everything around it."

Copy of previous entries.

"Once it begins to rampage, a Gyarados will burn everything down, even in a harsh storm."

Copy of previous entries.

"In ancient literature, there is a record of a Gyarados that razed a village when violence flared."

Copy of previous entries.

"Rarely seen in the wild. Huge and vicious, it is capable of destroying entire cities in a rage."

Repitition that it destroys cities during it's long rages.

"When Magikarp evolves into Gyarados, its brain cells undergo a structural transformation. It is said that this transformation is to blame for this Pokémon's wildly violent nature."

Says nothing.

"Once Gyarados goes on a rampage, its ferociously violent blood doesn't calm until it has burned everything down. There are records of this Pokémon's rampages lasting a whole month."

Says that it burns things down over time, this lasting even up to a month.

"A tale is told of a town that angered Gyarados. Before the sun rose the next day, flames utterly consumed the town, leaving not a trace behind."

Possibly the village in the ancient literature mentioned previously. Gives a timeframe of less than a day, but still implies it took a while.

"There are people who swear that any place Gyarados appears is fated for destruction."

Says nothing.

tl;dr

There are 6 entries stating it can destroy cities, at maximum. Only 3 of these entires do not mention this taking place during a rage, which have 5 entries implying they take place over time. This timeframe ranging from 1 day to a month.
 
I'm aware a good amount of them say nothing. Most Pokedex entries say nothing. I spend a lot of time going through many to only find nothing. And "around it" is incredibly vague. Who knows how far a Gyarados' range is. For all we know, it could be a whole country. And if it takes a whole month to destroy a city, then why wouldn't a whole bunch of experienced Pokemon trainers just get their electric types to shock it to oblivion. That doesn't happen because it doesn't take that long. Stating "won't stop until" doesn't prove anything either. Take my analogy above with the tantrum. So 5 is not the right number.

"It is an extremely vicious and violent Pokémon. When humans begin to fight, it will appear and burn everything to the ground with intensely hot flames."

Says nothing of what it is burning but does imply it destroys things via fire, which would mean it most certainly cannot destroy a city with one blast unless its fire breath is several hundred kilometers wide.

Alright. Let's downgrade literally every Dragon Ball character sans Zamasu because there's no way that they can destroy what they are rated because their hands aren't hundred kilos wide.

"In ancient literature, there is a record of a Gyarados that razed a village when violence flared."

States that it destroyed a village with no mention of timeframe, even more dubious since it's ancient literature.

If ancient literature makes it dubious, we wouldn't have profiles for ANY of the ancient legendaries, except for Rayquaza and the primals. Even then, it would be only the primal forms and not the normal ones.
 
"if it takes a whole month to destroy a city, then why wouldn't a whole bunch of experienced Pokemon trainers just get their electric types to shock it to oblivion. That doesn't happen because it doesn't take that long."

Wouldn't this be the exact opposite? The fact that it takes so long is exactly why it can be stopped before it does destroy a city. Not to mention none of the entries ever say "It destroyed a city" they say that it is capable of performing such a feat, implying that it usually doesn't or has not ever done it to a modern city (hence most records being from ancient times.)

"Alright. Let's downgrade literally every Dragon Ball character sans Zamasu because there's no way that they can destroy what they are rated because their hands aren't hundred kilos wide."

Difference being that Ki blasts are adjustable and concentrated like a bomb. Fire can't be "concentrated" or "exploded" like that, a beam of fire is only going to burn what it touches, and we've seen no Pokemon make a beam of this size. Most Hyper Beams barely exceed the width of their head, rarely reaching the size of their body.

"If ancient literature makes it dubious, we wouldn't have profiles for ANY of the ancient legendaries, except for Rayquaza and the primals. Even then, it would be only the primal forms and not the normal ones."

Difference being that with the Legendaries the dubious literature is literally all we have to go o, and in addition most games are centered around gaining a legendary to do the exact thing it is described as being capable of doing.

"Stating "won't stop until" doesn't prove anything either. Take my analogy above with the tantrum."

1. Destroying a room over a tantrum does take time

2. "Everything around it" is a very subjective range, even if we assumed it was as far as the horizon that would still mean it takes Gyarados a while to destroy a city as most can meet or exceed that distance
 
There is no way the people who live in to town are just gonna let him destroy it, meaning they will fight back but considering Gyarados can destroy towns consistently enough that its recorded in the pokedex.

This leaves us with 2 lines of thinking.

1)He is strong enough to beat an entire towns/city's worth of Pokemon which supports the idea he is indeed stronger than the majority of the Pokemon here which places him at tier 7.

2)He can destroy town/citys before anyone can fight back also putting him in tier 7.
 
If that were the case, they wouldn't say it could destroy a city at all. Because they'd have no idea that it could if they stopped it. Not to mention, city is pretty specific, when we're basically implying that this thing is building level now, small town at most.

Dragonair (a pokemon smaller than Gyarados) destroyed a city with a Hyper beam. Not to mention that Hyper Beam has an explosive effect almost every time it is shown. And Gyarados can't learn any fire moves naturally.

What else do we have to go on for most Pokemon then? Other than a select few, Pokedex entries are all we have. And the only case where Pokemon are going to do what myths state were the gen 4 gods and the gen 6 legendaries. Reshiram, Zekrom, Solgaleo, Lugia, Ho-oh, and Lunala don't demonstrate anhything close to their tiers in game, being basically featless. And Groudon and Kyogre's feats are slightly less than what we rate them as in Pokedex.

That wasn't the point of my analogy. The point of my analogy is that even after destroying the room, the tantrum still ensues.
 
"If that were the case, they wouldn't say it could destroy a city at all. Because they'd have no idea that it could if they stopped it."

I know for a fact a nuke can destroy a city without actually detonating it. I also know Ruby Rose can do the same thing, because she's displayed enough power to suggest that, over time, she could ruin a city.

"Not to mention, city is pretty specific, when we're basically implying that this thing is building level now, small town at most."

Ruby Rose can also "destroy a city" but just because that is a true statement doesn't mean that she'll do it in one hit.

"Dragonair (a pokemon smaller than Gyarados) destroyed a city with a Hyper Beam."

Not sure what size has to do with this unless Wailord is above Arceus and I'd like a source on that Hyper Beam feat.

"And Gyarados can't learn any fire moves naturally."

Nor does that black hole Pokemon kill others on contact or Ninjask suck out your soul when you look at it.

"Other than a select few, Pokedex entries are all we have."

Yes, but most don't also have other statements implying that the feats are done over time. For example Tyranitar straight up says it takes a step and a mountain crumbles. Also I am fairly certain a lot of Pokemon have feats in the anime to go off of.

"And Groudon and Kyogre's feats are slightly less than what we rate them as in Pokedex."

If that's the case I'd think it'd be better to downgrade them to what they show since, as I said, legendary entries are based on ancient texts and don't give timeframes.

"That wasn't the point of my analogy. The point of my analogy is that even after destroying the room, the tantrum still ensues."

Except in this case "everything around it" would be the room, so it'd stop as soon as it destroyed the "room."
 
LordXcano said:
Not sure what size has to do with this unless Wailord is above Arceus and I'd like a source on that Hyper Beam feat.
Click to expand...
I can confirm this, it happened in the Yellow manga, Lance's Dragonair blew up Vermillion City with a Hyper Beam, i'll try to find a scan.
 
Size has to do with it because you brought up the fact that hyper beams barely exceed head width. So a Pokémon smaller than Gyarados doing a town bust would disprove that.
 
RadicalMrR said:
There is no way the people who live in to town are just gonna let him destroy it, meaning they will fight back but considering Gyarados can destroy towns consistently enough that its recorded in the pokedex.

This leaves us with 2 lines of thinking.

1)He is strong enough to beat an entire towns/city's worth of Pokemon which supports the idea he is indeed stronger than the majority of the Pokemon here which places him at tier 7.(For reference we'd probably just put him at 7-B if we go with this)

2)He can destroy town/citys before anyone can fight back also putting him in tier 7.
Click to expand...
Since no one saw it the first time.
 
There is a problem to the first one Radical, some cities don't really have strong tier 7 Pokemon (ie look at Vermilion City or etc)

From what I see, the some of the Pokedex entries suggest that it won't stop being in a rage until it destroys everything right?

Because I think it varies, some of them are 7-B and range to significantly lower levels (to the point that it takes a month to destroy something)

@Weekly the feat is from a PKMN Adv Elite Four Dragonair, so even then it really won't scale
 
SomebodyData said:
@Weekly the feat is from a PKMN Adv Elite Four Dragonair, so even then it really won't scale
Click to expand...
That feat is one of the two feats we use to scale Dragonite...
 
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